[ Manga ] Chapter 268 Discussion

[Zu Ra]

Ryuuken is on a diffrent league compared to Ishida's Gramps or Ishida . Using him as a comparision would be wrong to Ishida . Also Ishida's motivation to become the strongest Quincy wasnt to protect , it was for Revenge . The motivation itself is wrong , now that his motivation is diffrent we get to see Ishida improve exponentially

Also Ishida had no acess to Quincy vault like Ryuuken

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by gibits

Sure the anaccar that she beat was weak, but Chad was completely useless, even against a weak one.

You can't compare Rukia to chad BEFORE his upgrade... Chad improved greatlyfrom that time... not only has his right armed evolved for greater power and defence, but his left arm is also has very powerful offence... he's also increased his speed greatly. Chad is MUCH stronger than he was back then.

While its true her opponent let her gaurd down for her to strike him, she was still able to reform her blade on sheer force of will to beat him. Can you blame him for not seeing that happen? Rukia was impaled, and her sword was broken, plus even with Kiaen's memory he didn't know she had this move. I would still give her full credit.

I give her credit for the kill, but as proof that she was stonger... because of the way it happened she didn't actually prove she was stronger. In all other fights, the stronger character overpowered/outskilled/outran or whatever their opponent and proved themselves stronger. In Rukia's case it's more like she just plain got lucky. If he didn't hold her close to him, she would have never had a prayer aginast him.

Its true that Ishida had to burn himself up to beat a captain, hence once in a lifetime chance, but Renji doesn't even have one chance.

well once in a life time means that we will never see him do it again... if he and Renji were to face off, we would not see him use that move. After he used in the one time, it no longer became a factor in his current power... and while it's possible he may regain that power, he so far hasn't shown he has regained the ability, so we can't really factor it into his current overall abilities as of yet

And the thing is, when considering Bankai, during SS Renji's overall abilties were stronger than Ishida... i mean he was probably the strongest amognst the vice captains and prossibly had some chance of equalling up to that of a lower level captain(though now i would say ikkaku is stronger, what with Renji saying he was most worthy of bein captain)... it's just his misfotune that he wound up facing agianst one of the strongest captains.

It kind of becomes an issue of balance. back in SS, Ishida's powers were low-mid, but for an intstant could spike up to very high, but only once , while Renji was more well balanced at having mid-high power, with the power remaining constant and never loosing it, unlike ishida... during SS, i would say that Renji was overall stronger...
As of the current arc, its a little unclear where the two of them stand in their overall abilities

[LIQUIDCELL]

Originally Posted by trioxylon

To put it shortly:
Well basically, Ichigo goes to the vaizards to learn how to control it, which he does learns how to kind of control it. Aizen gets interested in Orhime's ability to reverse time and kidnaps her, so Ichigo, Chad, and Ishida go to Hueco Mundo to save her. There they meet up with Rukia and Renji. They also meet up with some three "good guy" arrancar. They go in a castle, split up, and end up in their own battles. Chad has two upgrades: his original arms turns to a big shield, and his other arm is the "devil's left arm" or the one he uses to attack. He wins against on ex-espada, but a current espada hurts his shield arm. Another espada saves him later on. Ishida fights another ex-espada, and beats her with a sword-like bow. Um.. I forgot what happened with Renji. Ichigo took one ex-espada, of course, and beat him. Rukia meet up with Kaien, who really wasn't Kaien, but an arrancar and espada who absorbed Kaien and the hollow who absorbed Kaien. Rukia got stabbed on the arrancar's trident, but Rukia, I guess, did a beat him....

There you go, but I probably skipped a lot of stuff, and messed up here and there.

THANK YOU----SO MUCH!!! Greatly appreciated!

[Shinoto]

People really are laying into Chad. When it seems like Chad fought one of the strongest. The guy chad faced was probably top 3. Remember the massive difference between Ulq and Yami. We all know ULq is top 3. The guy Chad seem to face seems to be also top 3 most likely if not top 5 definitly. Even though Rukia beat 9...That one guy chad fought could be leagues above him.

See as someone said earlier. This arc is not going to end good it seems. You know Ichigo and gang will be rescued by either the Vizards, Ulq and Team, or a Society Squad. Most likely what is being intend is....Chad is going to be left behind. And Ichigo is going to get to Ohrime but she is going to reject going with him. So Chad and Ohrime are still going to be with Aizen. Remember Chad wants to be strong enough to watch Ichigo's back. You can say he is even angry at Ichigo for getting so much stronger than him. The temptation of power for Chad is at it's peak now.

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]
Also and most importantly Rukia was using her hand on the trident shaft to inch herself closer before she did Shirafune

I'm not sure what happened...........did Espada 9 bring Rukia closer himself, or did she slide the trident further through her body with her hand?

I haven't read the chapter myself so I'm relying on Geta's comments, but if she did it, its worthy of a lot of respect. Rukia, bleeding badly, impaled herself further on the trident, just so that she could get within stabbing distance of her enemy.

Going back to chapter 267, is it possible she let herself be skewered on purpose, so that she could launch this surprise attack?

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

I'm not sure what happened...........did Espada 9 bring Rukia closer himself, or did she slide the trident further through her body with her hand?

I haven't read the chapter myself so I'm relying on Geta's comments, but if she did it, its worthy of a lot of respect. Rukia, bleeding badly, impaled herself further on the trident, just so that she could get within stabbing distance of her enemy.

Going back to chapter 267, is it possible she let herself be skewered on purpose, so that she could launch this surprise attack?

Oh man, that would be badass. I never considered this an explanation but it sounds mighty awesome.

[cellardoor]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

You can't compare Rukia to chad BEFORE his upgrade... Chad improved greatlyfrom that time... not only has his right armed evolved for greater power and defence, but his left arm is also has very powerful offence... he's also increased his speed greatly. Chad is MUCH stronger than he was back then.

And you can't forget that Rukia also trained for one month, like Chad. I'm not saying Rukia is stronger but you can't say Chad is stronger either. Most likely, nobody in the group couldn'T have beaten Noitorra, but not sure about the knock out with one hit... Anyway, like I said in my previous post, unless they fight with each other, a certain comparison is not possible, every idea depends on our impressions.

About Rukia's fight, I think it is no less impressive than Ichigo vs. Zaraki or Byakuya, or Ishida vs. Mayuri... They don't have to have more raw strength to beat an enemy, how many times we saw that actually? Ichigo doesn't have more raw strength than Zaraki, does he? The only one who uses only physical strength is Chad and because of this, he doesn't stand a chance when he meets an opponent who is stronger than him, unlike Ichigo, Rukia or Ishida. Even the oppenents are more powerful than them, they can find a way to defeat. I hope he will learn to fire those ceros with his arm and more attacks, he definitely needs to have some tricks

[Zu Ra]

Yep she was dangling of the trident there are two frames dedicated to her hand . She lowered herself to get nearer using the staff of the trident to inch closer. The staff angle didn’t change a great deal... Espada 9 didn’t offer any resistance as he was busy mocking her spirit to fight back and broken zanapkuto

I wouldn’t call it a strike lucky I would call Espada 9 arrogant/stupid to actually believe the battle was over. After all Espadas are chosen for their fighting/combat abilities not arrogance

[Souryu]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

I wouldn’t call it a strike lucky I would call Espada 9 arrogant/stupid to actually believe the battle was over. After all Espadas are chosen for their fighting/combat abilities not arrogance

Rupee says hi

[Zu Ra]

Even Grimmie and Yami are birds of the same feather . Though Ulqi and Zaeru carve a niche for themselves .

[Bronwen Stx]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

I'm not sure what happened...........did Espada 9 bring Rukia closer himself, or did she slide the trident further through her body with her hand?

I haven't read the chapter myself so I'm relying on Geta's comments, but if she did it, its worthy of a lot of respect. Rukia, bleeding badly, impaled herself further on the trident, just so that she could get within stabbing distance of her enemy.

Going back to chapter 267, is it possible she let herself be skewered on purpose, so that she could launch this surprise attack?

I think its a bit of both. Rukia drawing herself closer and when A'roniro noticed she's still alive, lowered his trident closer for a better look.

But man the fact that you pointed that out makes this fight all the more badass.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by cellardoor

About Rukia's fight, I think it is no less impressive than Ichigo vs. Zaraki or Byakuya, or Ishida vs. Mayuri... They don't have to have more raw strength to beat an enemy, how many times we saw that actually? Ichigo doesn't have more raw strength than Zaraki, does he? The only one who uses only physical strength is Chad and because of this, he doesn't stand a chance when he meets an opponent who is stronger than him, unlike Ichigo, Rukia or Ishida. Even the oppenents are more powerful than them, they can find a way to defeat. I hope he will learn to fire those ceros with his arm and more attacks, he definitely needs to have some tricks

I gotta agree with Slayerx on this one. It's not an issue of raw physical strength that sets those battles apart, but the character being able to overpower an opponent's ability with their own in some way be it speed, reiatsu, kidou or even intelligence. Ichigo was able to match Zakari's fully released reiatsu with his own and Ishida was able to plow through Mayuri's bankai with his attack. Rukia's success was almost completely dependent on the Espada's neglect/stupidity and not her own skill. The only thing she did that was impressive was reforming her zanpakuto on the spot with shirafune. She gets full credit for the defeat, but the way it was accomplished shows little if any improvement on Rukia's part nor does it say much about about her strength in relation to Chad's for good or bad.

Going back to chapter 267, is it possible she let herself be skewered on purpose, so that she could launch this surprise attack?

Highly doubt it. For all she knew she could've been instantly killed if she were pierced in a different area and there was no way she could've known for sure that the Arroniro was going to lower the trident low enough for her to strike. It seemed like she had resigned herself to death but then saw an opportunity and took advantage of it.


I guess it's on to the Renji vs. Zaera fight now. I suspect Renji will also be in no condition to fight either after his battle. That will basically leave Ishida and Ichigo as the only members fit to fight. It's quickly getting to the point where they will need outside assistance just to survive.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by cellardoor

And you can't forget that Rukia also trained for one month, like Chad. I'm not saying Rukia is stronger but you can't say Chad is stronger either.

Which is why i mentioned in one of my previous posts that it becomes hard to judge how strong characters are to eachother...
However, just because she trained as long as Chad has doesn't mean she has trained as hard or gained as much stength in that time. Chad gained not one, but two upgrades since we last saw him, and considering how he went from useless against a normal annaccar to easily beating a former espada... we can tell that he has made a tremednous aount of improvement. Rukia by comparison, has yet to show such an imporvment... So Rukia, not gaining nearly as much noticable improvement while chad gained a huge amount puts her strength compared to his in serious question.

They don't have to have more raw strength to beat an enemy, how many times we saw that actually?

Who was talking about RAW strength? when i refer to strength i talk of overall fighting ability. Power, speed, agility, Reitasu, intellgence and so forth. The combination of these things is what determines if a character is stronger than another. If a character A's OVERALL fighting ability is truly superior to character B's, then when those two characters fight many times, character A will win most of the fights no matter how different the fights end up being... Can't say ALL fights, since random varables such as dumb luck or plot, may make things easier for B, and cause the battle to fall into their hands... this is what happened in Rukia's fight, Espada9 was clearly the superior fighter in that battle, Rukia got lucky that her oppenent did something So damn careless... had that fight gona ANY other way, Espada9 would have won the battle hands down... If Rukia and Espada9 were able to have a rematch, even if he still didn't know about her third dance, Rukia would have been dead, no doubt...

Oh, and ofcourse when the two fighter's A and B are about equal... then if they were to fight many times, then A and B would each have a fair share of victories... the slightly stronger of the two will probably have a few more then the other, but it would be a good split (this is how i think most fights are, like ichigo versus Kenpachi or Byakuya)... But ofcourse, this wasn't the case for Rukia... If rukia and Espada9 were to many times, Espada9 would win nearly all the battles... Rukia was just lucky that this battle was the exception

seriously espada9 had thousands of different attacks, he could have ended Rukia with any one of them, as opposed to a stab with tirdent followed by idoitic gloating and holding her close... Hell had his stabbed been just a few inches up or down he would have missed rukia's sword but still stabbed her like he did, With her sword not be broken he would not held her close enough to attack and thus she looses...

Credit for the kill but not credit for being the superior fighter... only way i'd consider giving her credit as being superior is if she actually PLANNED to get stabbed, have her sword break, in order to lure him into a false sence of security so that she could CREATE and opening, and surprise stab him... but ofcourse, it's clear that she did not and the open she had against him was nothing but a fluke

[Bronwen Stx]

I'm thinking... her third dance maybe has the power of layering her blade with ice and anything that her blade touches goes kaput? But in this case, because her zanpakatou broke, she reformed it with ice instead of layering it. It would fit the whole idea of Shirafune - White Blade. Even though her zanpakatou is already white.

I don't think Rukia was particularly powerful but she was skilled (she knows her kidou and how to apply it) and smart (but the effectiveness of her being smart and skilled is a whole other story) during the battle. I guess in the end a win is a win. Unless the next chapter says otherwise. Yeah, this was the most anti-climatic battle but I personally enjoyed it because it was anti-climatic. One shot is all she needed. Which pissed off a billion and one people over at the NF forums.

[Lendial]

lol its a rukia hatefest over there. frankly i think she deserves to be thrown a bone after getting pwnt by a nameless hollow then gutted by grimmy. im sure glad it wasnt a repeate of chado.

[Bronwen Stx]

Originally Posted by Lendial

lol its a rukia hatefest over there. frankly i think she deserves to be thrown a bone after getting pwnt by a nameless hollow then gutted by grimmy. im sure glad it wasnt a repeate of chado.

I think she deserves a couple more bones. She's been violated more times than Ichigo could say ban kai.

[Zu Ra]

For 269 there were only 2 spoilers posted In that, the second one was well too good to be true and most likely a fanfic . The first one though many fans calls a fake makes a lil more sense . But mostly likely a fake ???

Spoiler for 269 ??:

* Espada9's other head is alive

* Rukia passes out

* Enter Gin

* Renji struggling against Zaeru

Though this spoiler looks and sounds like Himajin BUT Himajin accuracy has spawned many Fake Himajins

[Bronwen Stx]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

For 269 there were only 2 spoilers posted In that, the second one was well too good to be true and most likely a fanfic . The first one though many fans calls a fake makes a lil more sense . But mostly likely a fake ???

Spoiler for 269 ??:

* Espada9's other head is alive

* Rukia passes out

* Enter Gin

* Renji struggling against Zaeru

I really wish Gin would enter but *_* I do reckon both are fake...

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by Bronwen Stx

I really wish Gin would enter but *_* I do reckon both are fake...

Yes true but on a lighter note whats with this unhealthy obcession of Gin being there in all the fake spoilers . I reckon if if the scene changes to SS those fake spoilers too will have Gin in them

[Bronwen Stx]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yes true but on a lighter note whats with this unhealthy obcession of Gin being there in all the fake spoilers . I reckon if if the scene changes to SS those fake spoilers too will have Gin in them

+_+ I can't wait. I think mostly because people are aware at how Gin loves screwing with Rukia so...who knows?