2007-03-20, 22:13 | Link #521 |
Mixtape
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 35
|
After watching the ending… I must say the weakest element, not that everything else is I am able to find in this series is the “plot”, the Delors versus Animus confrontation, itself, which in my opinion is pretty much the only element besides the usual poor Gonzo-animation holding it back from achieving its true potential. I know the conflict just a device to get the dramatic developments going, but it still gets on Geass levels of convenience at times with meaningless badly-thought excuses to move it forward and a pretty idiotic set-up for the actually quite well directed and executed final conflict. The ending was fairly good, the point at where they cut was just perfect; it just suffered from a really bad structure.
|
2007-03-20, 22:45 | Link #522 |
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
I don't know, I have seen a lot worse in terms of plot. I think Red Garden's one is pretty good for a character driven series. It has its fair share of plotholes but then again so do a lot of highly rated shows, books or movies. Care to share examples of "meaningless badly-thought excuses to move it forward"? I remember Kate going to the lair of enemy in episode 19 as one such example but I can't think of many other.
P.S. You don't like Code Geass' endless plot devices?
__________________
|
2007-03-21, 10:03 | Link #524 | |
Mixtape
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 35
|
Quote:
I really enjoyed the anime in the end, though, as I never watched it for the convulsed Animus versus Delors conflict and I always saw it as nothing than a vehicle for portraying the girls, and companions, life when discovering the unfair war they’ve been put in and for that purpose, it worked wonderfully. |
|
2007-03-21, 10:47 | Link #525 | |||
The Commissar Vanishes
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Imagine that your life turned on its head. What do you do? How do you react? Do you adapt or do you try to regain what you have lost? Can anything in your life stay the same? It doesn't matter if that which changed your life was mundane or supernatural, as long as the end result is that your life is no longer the same as it was before. Red Garden is a parable for such a life-changing event. For example, Rachel is growing up, so her angst is not about being dead, but rather about losing her "sweetsixteen" easy and uncomplicated life. It's no coincidence that a lot of her scenes involved Nick, the adult that guided her in this new adult world. It was almost spelled out for the audience, since Nick and Rachel were talking about how black coffee, bitter and hot as it is, is a parable for adult life. Rachel learned to drink that black coffee. She still winces, but she is drinking it. It's the same for the rest of the girls as well. Personally, I cannot fault the plot in anything. It was well put together, the script was tight and all the plot lines were resolved. My only displeasure was with the limited nature of the animation in many episodes and the fact that the story was somewhat lost in its thoughts. Other than that, i was greatly content and pleased. |
|||
2007-03-21, 16:27 | Link #526 |
Senior Member
|
A really compelling series and I watched the last two in a one-two punch.
Fantastic. I'd almost like to see a prequel of how this all started, hundreds of years back. How did they get on earth? Were they always here? How are the dead turned into living Animus? All kinds of stuff they never really showed the "how" of. How are the Delors/Dorals different from humans? I'm glad to see an OVA forthcoming.
__________________
|
2007-03-21, 17:07 | Link #527 |
ショ ン (^^)
IT Support
|
I watched the last 3 one after another(thanks Shinsen Subs) when i first started Red Garden i had my doubts but the story kept me so intrigued that I kept watching, and i was not disappointed. Red Garden had a strong and compelling story and the characters managed to find their way into your heart.
Through all the heart ache and violence Red Garden to me was most about learning how to let go of things that you can not change yet keeping hope alive. The growth of the characters through the story was amazing and i felt like each character had enough screen time to explain their indvidual story. In the end they were not monsters or some immortal beings they were simply teenage girls with hopes and dreams who wanted to continue living even if it meant without their memories, to me that show strength of heart and character. I feel that Kate and Rose made the most growth through the series. Kate took a roll as leader quite an achievement for someone so timid, and even the whining cry baby Rose finally accepted her fate and did what needed to be done. But my heart goes out to Rachel the most she had to let go of love knowing that it was not in her or her loves best interest, that showed self sacrifice. Clair managed to come to an understanding with her father which i thought was a nice touch. I would have liked to see more of the history between Animus and the Delors. but the conclusion its self was enough for me, and i thought it was executed quite well. As for Lise well too me she was the most innocent out of all the girls and doomed from the start which made even more tragic. Even at the end she kept saying i think i have a boyfriend and i can make in time for class those lines alone made her innocent in my eyes. The final scene of the girls waking up holding hands and not knowing who they are broke my heart but we knew it was going to happen. I would have to say the people i feel sorry for the most are the families of the girls. For all 4 to go missing at once it will most likely lead to some type of investigation. But the people left behind will suffer greatly before they can move on. Roses family was blessed with the father coming home and then they lose her, Kate sister will be devastated having lost her finance and now her sister, Claire's dad and brother will use all their money and influence looking for her, and Rachels parents marriage was not strong to begin with im sure this will break them. Im curious as to how much time passed from when the girls went to sleep to when they woke up and where were they? Have to wait months for the freakin OVA WTF
__________________
|
2007-03-21, 20:15 | Link #528 |
Senior Member
|
The last episode was badass beyond anything I could have expected. Just goes to show that the best way to end a story is to kill everyone.
But, I have to say, overall I didn't really love the show. It had its good points, but I didn't care much for the plot. I think Red Garden was trying to add a bit of realism to the "Girls acquire supernatural powers and are forced to fight" storyline, which is a noble undertaking. But realistically if a bunch of spoiled brats were put in that situation, they would whine and complain and cry a lot. And that's exactly what the girls in Red Garden did. But, the drawback to this is that girls whining and complaining and crying for 10 episodes is a little annoying. But then, all of a sudden they learn how to fly and buy a baseball bat and it's all ok. Even if it is an analogy for more realistic life issues, I thought it was all kind of silly. Also detracting from the realism was the singing. I'm sure we've all tried to forget about it (thank god it stopped after the first few episodes) but it really killed the mood at the beginning of the show for me. However, I think the show had a really good soundtrack. It's not the songs that were bad, they just shouldn't have been placed as musical numbers during the show. At least they didn't dance too. Maybe if they had used better singers it stilly would have been cheesy but at least it wouldn’t have been as painful. Kokia sings them on the soundtrack and that makes it all (almost) worth it. There was a fair amount of character development. The girls learn that there is a time to stop grieving and move forward and that they have to work together and look past petty differences. They learn that their problems from everyday life aren't really as big as they thought they were. How sweet. As for the tale of the high school stereotypes who through facing a common obstacle realize their differences are superficial and then become friends, I think Breakfast Club did it better. At first the setting also really bothered me. There was no reason for it to be set in New York other than that Japanese people think New York is cool. But I guess that's not really a problem and I have to say they handled the cultural differences pretty accurately. It was interesting to see them try to take the Japan out of anime. It's kind of cool to see how other countries view American culture. Too bad New York isn't actually as clean as Red Garden presented it. The clothing was also a nice touch. At first I thought "no one actually dresses like that!" But then I walked through some higher end fashion stores and the style was exactly what the girls in Red Garden wore. The outfits were really detailed and it turns out, pretty accurate at least somewhere in the country. It got a lot more interesting near the end but the “It’s a supernatural Romeo and Juliet except that Romeo doesn’t like Juliet and they end up beating the crap out of each other at the end” plot didn’t do it for me. I don't see the point of an OVA. The ending was really good. I think it was the kind of ending that doesn't need a continuation-- you more or less know what is going to happen and it's more fulfilling to use your imagination. Last edited by Jewelray; 2007-03-21 at 20:29. |
2007-03-24, 23:30 | Link #529 |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 44
|
UNBELIEVABLE! Thanks to Shinsen-Subs I finally watched the last episode of Red Garden.
My point about the pacing for the last episode is that it carried out fast and quickly, but not at any moment I felt that events were forced or rushed to give way IMO to the two most powerful scenes that were left to last for the ending. As for the ending per se it was nothing special. By the manner on how the camera zoomed away from Roosevelt Island as the depth music played and the credits roll at the same time while the camera was on motion, it felt as a Hollywood movie which got too much hype as the big thing with the internet advertising. The story for Red Garden is nothing out of the world or outstanding. But it is gripping and sometimes chilling, as the last episode perfectly played out the most clever device to the unfortunate outcome. Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I lost empathy and respect for Hervé once he became absorbed by his bloodlust for revenge that never paid true attention to Anna's pain and instead deluding the inevitable with illusions about the sake for a bright future. Apart that he lashed out on Kate with verbal mockery. Spoiler:
His eyes were a measure to the loss of conventional sanity. Unfortunately, I as well am such a sentimental guy. Spoiler:
My terrible complain and which I think it turns into this episode's critical flaw and may as well as the entire storyline's plothole was Lise's outcome. Spoiler:
|
2007-03-26, 00:12 | Link #533 |
Watch the Skies
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
I'm really conflicted. Here's a series with a fairly interesting premise and absolutely wonderful characterizations, but the most incoherent plot this side of Ultraviolet. It was sort of a let down overall, kinda like the second season of Honey and Clover.
I'm just confused about one thing: Was Paula an Animus or not? edit: I feel I should clarify: The weakness of the plot dilutes the losses that the characters ultimately suffer through. Without a meaningful and compelling reason for them to be bruised and injured through the course of the series, it just comes off as sadism. To be honest, my favorite parts of the whole show were Claire and Rose's family/relationship subplots. |
2007-03-26, 00:31 | Link #534 | ||||
The Commissar Vanishes
|
Spoiler:
Quote:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
2007-03-26, 01:57 | Link #535 | |
Watch the Skies
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
I really think it would've been a stronger drama if they'd extracted all of the characters and their personal conflicts and dropped in a more normal conflict. Especially considering that Lise's service to the plot was quintessentially that of an inanimate object. Perhaps something like the girls are being blackmailed by the "Animus" for something. I dunno, just tossing ideas out. |
|
2007-03-26, 03:40 | Link #536 | |
The Commissar Vanishes
|
Quote:
And what could it have been about? They are stressed about school/love/work/friends/younameit, they go to a shrink, visit a spa, end of story, we're done. I've seen enough bad Hollywood films to know how utterly boring and mind-numbingly pointless that is. |
|
2007-03-26, 10:24 | Link #537 | |
Watch the Skies
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
|
|
2007-03-26, 11:42 | Link #539 |
Flakey
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
|
I enjoyed the series personally, I liked the charactor designs, the charactors, I liked that it was set somewhere *not* in Japan. The story was fun and I happen to like 'Open Endings', it's a taste I devloped considering many animes have this sort of ending, lol.
|
2007-03-26, 13:07 | Link #540 | ||||
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||||
Tags |
drama, supernatural |
|
|