(L) El Cazador

[Blue-kun]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Spoiler for Thoughts on episode 1:

As I double-clicked that single AVI file, my mind was wondering. Did they really intend to do it all again? To tell the same whole story again? I was doubting out of a slight hope, expecting that the series would not be going to take the same path.

The first second of the opening told me how wrong that expectation was. It was like watching Noir's and Madlax's openings again. All again.

However, as soon as the episode kicked in (after the short prelude), I was greeted with a refreshing surprise. What's that? Did Kajiura Yuki make something that isn't actually her overused techno-gothic music? Oh, man, those few seconds of a bluesy country song were a bliss for me, someone who likes Kajiura Yuki, believes in her potential, but is tired of seeing her make replicas of her own songs. I actually believed for an instant that this series was going to feature a more experimental Kajiura, but then again, later in the episode I was bashed with more of her typical techno-gothic stuff. Don't take me wrong, her songs are very good, I enjoy them a lot, but she's been making the same songs again and again and again. Argh.

The rest of the episode was what could be expected of a Madlax and Noir copycat. If anything, it's been made more ridiculous by the comedy thrown in, which doesn't work at all for me because of BeeTrain's traditional (and also ridiculous) slow pacing.

Still, I'm going to watch this series. Who knows, maybe somewhere inside my mind I'm still hoping for Kajiura to surprise me with some more experimental facets of herself (the theme of the anime certainly gives her enough space to try that), or maybe I intend to rewatch Madlax, which I really liked, but I don't want to pull the DVD out of where I'm keeping it. Who knows.

While I do agree with you that the first episode featured some songs that were quite new to Kajiura, I don't understand this "typical techno-gothic" stuff. That's too much Salva Nos era to me. Ever since then she composed lots of songs with her "regular" style, but also tried some pretty different stuff. I believe Silly-Go-Round is a good example of this (since you used a YUUKA song as reference, I might as well quote one myself), not to mention Aikoi (and so on). Both are innovative on their own way and don't really feature any traces of Kajiura's "regular" style.

She's improving, no doubt of that. And while she has some songs that sound somewhat like old ones, it's not a bad thing at all. Happens to all of them, even Yoko Kanno's like that. The songs I had a chance to listen to from the new Darker than BLACK OST were REALLY alike to CB's.

Anyway, as for the episode itself, I liked it. Never finished both of the other series, however, it wasn't that much of a copy/paste. The humour they added to the series added a different touch to it, the high number of characters until now helped too, not to mention that they're pretty much more laid-back than in Noir/MADLAX.

Animation quality was what you could expect from Bee-train, not really awesome, but pretty solid to me. The OST, well, I think I got my point up there, so I really liked it.

All in all, pretty enjoyable first episode and I'm eagerly waiting for more to see how they are going to handle the story from now on.

[Ban_Mido]

Fiction Yuuka ending is awesome! I love it! Romanesque (love the title too ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8VZDGKCrg

[Timeless Enigma]

For some odd reason I can tolerate someone rehashing their musical style until infinity, but I can't stand a character designer who's characters all look the same in every show (Hisashi Hirai). I suppose one factor is, I really like the style Kajiura seems to use the most. I don't, however, think Hirai's characters look all that great, they're not bad, but they're not awe-inspiring either.

Anyway, seems like I was right for feeling Madlax/Noir vibes on this one. I never watched Noir but I did try out Madlax and I didn't feel it was worth it. This anime already is giving me that feeling, but perhaps I'll wait a little longer before I drop it.

[MrProphet]

I was infinitely bored by this series. Koichi Mashimo seems to be legally forbidden from producing an original plot that doesn't have two girls, one amazon, on amnesic, searching out the amnesic's past. The screenshot below was the only thing that made those 20 minutes something a little bit less than a complete waste of time.

[BluWacky]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

I was infinitely bored by this series. Koichi Mashimo seems to be legally forbidden from producing an original plot that doesn't have two girls, one amazon, on amnesic, searching out the amnesic's past.

Come now, they're BOTH amnesiac

You're entirely right, but I still enjoyed (well, I think I enjoyed) El Cazador 1. I think I may be giving it the benefit of teh doubt because the first episode wasn't overly excitign really, but I'm hoping things will get a bit more interesting later on.

And what was the cat with a bazooka all about? Straaaange people at Bee Train.

[Fellini 8.5]

Originally Posted by BluWacky

And what was the cat with a bazooka all about? Straaaange people at Bee Train.

I was still laughing about this, so I missed the cat the first time:



I was suitably entertained, but I'm an easy target for Mashimo's stuff. But I think it's kind of funny that Spider Riders has more in common with MADLAX in terms of creative team than El Cazador does. Go figure.

[Kensuke]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Loli liek milk.

Well, after watching first episode I have to say I liked it, but then, girls with guns "genre" is one of my favorites.
Opening rocked, I have already watched it several times, episode itself wasn't great, but certainly not disappointing either. I got the what the heck is going on feeling so I'm following this.

I'm not sure what to think about Ellis, but Nadi is very likeable, much more than Mirelle or Madlax were.

[Mentar]

Contrary to others who expressed disappointment about Kajiura "rehashing" her former works, I'm very pleased with what I just heard ^_^

First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.

Besides, the first battlehymn starting around 17:30 has a very convincing dynamic typical "Kajiura" energy to it. I would hate to miss it

[Entropy]

I'm not sure what to think about Ellis, but Nadi is very likeable, much more than Mirelle or Madlax were.

They certainly do seem more "alive" than previous iterations of the genre.

[lommm]

i will enjoy this thread very much after about ep 6 when people who hate the series have left the thread and only fans remain. i will always love noir. madlax was a step down to me, but still a part of something i loved. and this is continuing the tradition.

i would point out that Koichi Mashimo has said in previous interviews that Noir and Madlax are more connected than they appeared originally. he seemed to imply that the third series would tie the first two together. personally, i think this could only have worked if Noir weren't set in real countries. i only say that since Madlax just mad a bunch of stuff up when it came to countries and politics. we'll see in the coming months how the three shows are connected. but the fact that Mireille did make a cameo is perhaps not just a nod to fans but instead a sign of things to come....



now, about the chara designs... Ricardo looks so much like Quent Yaiden from Wolf's Rain (he was Blue's owner who was hunting wolves) that i will complain. the girls looking the same from noir to madlax to cazador are okay because it's a trilogy. wolf's rain is unrelated, so it's just weird. (i also think that Ricardo and the girl remind me of Mister and Blues's daughter - forgot her name - from Coyote Ragtime, but i don't see how they're related)

[mouhitori]

It would be interesting if all the series can connect in some ways.
The music would be the main reason for me watching in the mean time. I do feel it's great.

I think if someone never watched Noir & Madlax, the series would feel a lot more interesting.

Brief summary and screenshots of episode 1

[TougeSil80]

Just watched ep.1, loving the music here. But I do agree that this is like Madlax with a little bit of Noir thrown in. Hopefully the pacing would be better than Madlax. I loved Noir and liked Madlax, so I'm definitely watching this one.

[Matrim]

WTF? First people were complaining that the character designs were too different to Noir and Madlax, now that they are too similar - make up your mind!

Contrary to others who expressed disappointment about Kajiura "rehashing" her former works, I'm very pleased with what I just heard ^_^

First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.

Besides, the first battlehymn starting around 17:30 has a very convincing dynamic typical "Kajiura" energy to it. I would hate to miss it

Exactly. And the opening piece of background music that plays when the mountain lake is shown after the opening is brilliant, IMO.

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by Mentar

First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.

I am sorry but your example doesn't fit, in my opinion. A composer who gets hired to produce a soundtrack for an anime or a movie or whatever, cannot be compared to a band or a singer. A band will most likely maintain a certain style because that's their own choice, but a composer who has to write and realize music for a work/story/setting that's originated from someone else's mind should adapt a certain musical register and style that has to match the original work. You don't hear gregorian chants and electronic music in a western-like work, not even in real movies, because that's not the right style for that kind of setting and atmosphere. So while I do agree with you and with other people that a musical artist can mantain a certain style and flavour, this doesn't justify the fact that Kajiura has been repeating certain musical patterns and styles too frequently in different shows, without any real solid difference. Since this is a forum regarding anime, I'll just take Yoko Kanno as an example of what I am trying to explain: Yoko Kanno has actually a wider variety of styles, because for each show she's worked for, she produced a soundtrack that would fit the theme and the "flavour" of the show itself. Cowboy Bebop? We have jazz, bebop and other similar styles. GiTS? We have electronica and industrial-rock mixed with it. Aquarion? We have a classical orchestra with classical music performing most of the soundtrack, with little to no electronic instruments playing in it. You get the idea. Anyway, of course I am not expecting you to absolutely agree with my point of view, but I was trying to atleast show you that what I meant to say about Kajiura's style not changing that much throughout different shows somehow makes some sense. And of course, one can still like her style no matter what, I know. De gustibus non disputandum est.

[Srin Tuar]

Originally Posted by lommm

i will enjoy this thread very much after about ep 6 when people who hate the series have left the thread and only fans remain. i will always love noir. madlax was a step down to me, but still a part of something i loved. and this is continuing the tradition.

Hehe, I must admit I'm guilty of commenting on the first ep or two of every show I watch.
For many shows, that makes me a "hater" even as i tell myself I'm open to anything in anime form.

This show seemed to have nice character designs and I wanted to be hooked on it, but I guess this genre is just not for me. (I'll avoid commenting on ep2 if i don't love it :P )

[lommm]

Shinndou, i agree with you almost completely. but i would say that you should complain about Kajiura's music in other shows and not Noir-Madlax-El Cazador. Just because these three are so closely related, i feel that the music should help link them together.

though i do agree that she far too often uses certain themes and refrains in different shows and only changes one or two things. i think people are arguing more due to your use of certain musical terms that others are not entirely familiar with (theme, for example). you're breaking the music down in an almost academic manner. most people don't do that. so... just let the fans be fans and let's stop arguing so much about Kajiura's music. It is, after all, the El Cazador thread and not the Kajiura thread....


@Srin Tuar: hehe i didn't mean to be harsh, but i'm glad you see what i was saying.

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by lommm

Shinndou, i agree with you almost completely. but i would say that you should complain about Kajiura's music in other shows and not Noir-Madlax-El Cazador. Just because these three are so closely related, i feel that the music should help link them together.

though i do agree that she far too often uses certain themes and refrains in different shows and only changes one or two things. i think people are arguing more due to your use of certain musical terms that others are not entirely familiar with (theme, for example). you're breaking the music down in an almost academic manner. most people don't do that. so... just let the fans be fans and let's stop arguing so much about Kajiura's music. It is, after all, the El Cazador thread and not the Kajiura thread....

Well yes, in my first post after having watched episode one I did in fact say that:

Originally Posted by myself from the earlier post on episode one

Which is why I was also relieved, even if it was just at the beginning of the episode, to actually listen to something different from her usual electronica+gregorian like choirs which has become too repetitive and somehow boring to listen to.

Although at the end of the episode you get to hear the gregorian choir again, atleast in the first half the soundtrack is fitting the atmosphere. Now I just hope that this "experiment" she's doing will go on in the next episodes as well, I'd be really happy about it. I don't know about you but for me a fitting soundtrack is one of the key roles in making a real good show, so I tend to pay atleast some attention on it, most of the times. Anyway you are right, I am indeed talking too much about Kajiura, I apologize to everybody for having somehow brought this discussion a bit off-topic.

[I<3killerloli's]

I've downloaded the RAW but I'm not going to wach all of this until it is subbed. I love the intro (someone who mentioned a connection to Noir only has to look at the OP to see the possibility HINT: The wine glass pouring backwards...hmmm...)

But I was shocked by something. If anybody can understand Japanese better than I can, please go back to the beggining scene of the episode and tell me if they can hear the narrator say "Maxwell". That's my name so it sort of caught me off guard. I'd like to know the context of it. I was able to make out the English word Entropy which is a high scientific/philosophic term for the eventual decay of the universe and thus oblivion (yep, we're in a Bee Train anime).

[Matrim]

The narrator talks about Maxwell's demon and entropy, yes.

This show seemed to have nice character designs and I wanted to be hooked on it, but I guess this genre is just not for me. (I'll avoid commenting on ep2 if i don't love it :P

Why? What's wrong with some criticism? If you don't like it feel free to say so.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Since this is a forum regarding anime, I'll just take Yoko Kanno as an example of what I am trying to explain: Yoko Kanno has actually a wider variety of styles, [...]

Erhm... sorry, I won't go there. I understand the point you're trying to make, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll readily concede that Yoko Kanno experiments more and that she'll be more "diverse". But the fact is that (at least in my personal opinion) this comes at a noticeable drop in quality.

While on Kajiura soundtracks, I tend to playlist around 6 songs and have 2-3 on repeat for quite a while, Kanno soundtracks tend to give me 2 songs and 1 on repeat. Also, I'm definitely getting more "emotionally involved" in the Kajiura tracks.

Does this mean that Kajiura is better? Heck no, only that I like her better. And that I definitely prefer to hear her style, which has become a trademark of the Bee Train shows. That's the key of _my_ argument. I don't want Kajiura to bounce around Kanno-style. I want to hear HER music (which by the way _is_ adjusted to the background's ethnic touches).

But as you said: De gustibus non disputandum est.