[ Manga ] Chapter 275 Discussion

[WarpObscura]

The number is for complexity, yes, but I am not very clear if increased complexity directly leads to increased power.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Calling it "Level" makes it look like there is a connection between the number and the power of the spell. But they are numbered by category and not by power, aren't they?

There is a connection they are numbered by Complexity They are dvided into two sub-categories

- Hado (Destructive)

- Bakudo (Binding)

How do I know this Renji himself says . He calls Level 33 Soukatsui as a mid level spell . And if you are still in doubt compare the damages and effectiveness of both Hado and Bakudo mid level and high level : )

Renji used Hado 31 Rukia used a double incanation Hado 63 and Bakudo 67.

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Uh, Renjis kidou is apparently strong (he just cant control it) and he fired it at point blank, making a direct hit. Out of Rukias spells, only that binding one hit directly, the first was dodged and the last, #63, was targeted at the wall so the suns light would enter the room. Im sure if it had hit it would have been very painful for Aroniro. Unlike him, Zael had no place to run.

Ther double incantation was a bulls-eye . And Renji’s kido is strong where did you get this info ? Renji is lousy at Kido right from Academy days his strengths is Zanjutsu just like Rukia average at Zanjutsu . Renji evolved into a shinigami in Div 11 that forbids use of Kido even Renji’s Zanpakuto is Zanjutsu based as opposed Kido

Why didn’t the Crappy Summary by Himajin focus on that .

[Scep]

it has not been explicitly stated, but it is implied that complexity = power. Think about it. #4, byakurai was a weak hadou who only made a hole in ichigo, as compared to hadou 90, kurohitsugi, which took down a captain.

[Zu Ra]

Renji does state level 33 Spell is a mid class/level Kido in chapter 142 . Bya unleashes Sokatsui 33 (Chant less) and Renji is surprised Bya could do a chant less mid class spell . From that statement its self imperative

An interesting thing Rukia used Soukatsui (Hado 33) when her shinigami powers were lost , Parakeet Incident . Just as Renji excels at Zanjustu Rukia excels at kido .

[Scarlet]

Didn't Byakuya use a level 4 kidou spell to shot a hole in Ichigo's chest?

[zoozoc]

Originally Posted by Scarlet

Didn't Byakuya use a level 4 kidou spell to shot a hole in Ichigo's chest?

ya white lightning, it shot a hole through his right shoulder. (or somewhere on his right side)

kudou is the only thing that i think is dramatically under-played. It seems to be so powerful and has so much potential, yet it is hardly ever used.

[Lendial]

this seems a bit unrealistic but lets hope theres an explaination later. i thought zeal " sorry i dont swing that way" after renji wrapped them both up his blade.

[UnderscoreX]

Hey remember when D-Roy died in Bleach ? Just before Edorad, Ilfort and Shawlong died in Bleach ? That was really something.

[Zu Ra]

Byakurai ( hado 4 ) it’s a low level kido spell . Low level Kido spells don’t even have chants Take Bakudo spells Sai ( Bakudo 1 )and Hainawa (Bakudo 4 ) they don’t have chants

It was his shoulder region which got affected Ichi couldn’t move his arm to Block Bya he was repeating move move move (Before Hichi Took Over ) Also note the distance from which it was fired to be effective

Originally Posted by UnderscoreX

Hey remember when D-Roy died in Bleach ? Just before Edorad, Ilfort and Shawlong died in Bleach ? That was really something.

yeah I do remember that It was the same time Ichi was being GJ's beatch

[Lendial]

number 9 did say his total reiatsu matched that of the first espada.

[cellardoor]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

I do remember Rukia using Bakudo # 67 : Rikujo Korou + Hado # 63 : Soren Soukatsui were ineffective against a Gillian Espada while a Level 31 Kido was effective against Szayel . Wow talk about a really weak Espada .

I think it was because Rukia hadn't aimed directly to him, instead she wanted to blow up the wall and see what was the deal between sunlight and him. #9 himself said that it would have hurt him, had she aimed his head.

As for kidou attacks, I think the complexity and the power increase by the higher levels. However, the level of the power also depends on the person. Rukia was able to use 30+ level kidou to the killer of parakeet boy's mum but it was quite weak cause she had lost her powers. Renji now used an attack around the same level and was able to damage Szayel.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Ther double incantation was a bulls-eye . And Renji’s kido is strong where did you get this info ? Renji is lousy at Kido right from Academy days his strengths is Zanjutsu just like Rukia average at Zanjutsu . Renji evolved into a shinigami in Div 11 that forbids use of Kido even Renji’s Zanpakuto is Zanjutsu based as opposed Kido

Why didn’t the Crappy Summary by Himajin focus on that .

No idea what "ther double incantation" is, if you mean Rukias on Aroniro, it was far from a bullseye, he dodged the first, got hit by the binding one Byakuya had showed against Renji in SS, and the last one didnt even touch him since it was aimed for the wall, so it would fall apart and reveal the sunlight.

Renji said in this chapter "I often got into trouble because I couldnt control my explosions", you can take that as you will, but to me it seems as if Renji doesnt usually use Kidou not because his is weak, but because he has no control over it, which doesnt mean it lacks power. Thats why I think Zael being affected by it doesnt make him a weak espada.

And I dont get what youre talking about with that last sentence, but if youre upset about me me saying Himajins summary was crappy, well I dont really care.

[JackRydden224]

Maybe Zael is weak against kidou...in any case before Renji attacked he said "I've always been lousy at kidou and when I try too hard I blow myself up, but how about a shot at point zero huh?" It may not be exactly what he said word for word but it's 95%. Renji made that manuver with the intend that he is going to...pretty much self-destruct infront of his enemy lol.

[cheese no koma]

Originally Posted by Lendial

number 9 did say his total reiatsu matched that of the first espada.

really? what chapter was this?

[Lendial]

it was during their fight, he said he had the combined reiatsu of all the hollows/shinigamis he absored , and in total it rivaled that of the prima espada. i dont know the exact chapter. can someone confirm? maybe i misread

[whatasob]

anyone besides me find it crazy that it's been 100 chapters since they left SS?

[Zu Ra]

Lendial I too remember that statement but I cant find it but its a fact that Espada9 Reatsu == 33650 Hollows

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

No idea what "ther double incantation" is,

Double Incantation == Two kidō spells in tandem/conjunction ie Bakudo # 67 : Rikujo Korou + Hado # 63

Renji said in this chapter "I often got into trouble because I couldnt control my explosions", you can take that as you will, but to me it seems as if Renji doesnt usually use Kidou not because his is weak, but because he has no control over it, which doesnt mean it lacks power.

You are really confused if you suck at kidō doesn’t mean you are weak whatever gave you that idea . Renji’s strength lies in Zanjutsu (Swordsmanship) as opposed to kidō . Renji’s Kido is below par ,controlling your Kido ie Explosions ( Hado ) is a quintessential to perform an effective Kido . Renji used Kido as a last ditched effort to buy Ishida time

Also Renji honed his skills in Div 11 under Ikkaku . Kido is weak chink in Renji’s armor

Thats why I think Zael being affected by it doesnt make him a weak espada.

Kido affect was just a part of it :-

- Cutting off Renji’s Bankai

- Using Fraccion

- Effected by mid level Kido

- Self Proclaiming statement “ I am weak “ in juxtapose with turning off Renji’s Bankai

[Lendial]

perhaps kidou effects are based on the user's and target's reiatsu level( similar to faith level in final fantasy tactics). byakuya completely bitch slapped renji by binding him with the light pillars, the same kidou had no effect on numero 9, perhaps because of his massive core reiatsu. as for zeal perhaps his reaitsu is very low for an espada and his rank is based on his intellect and ability to create fancy gadgets such as the bankai neutralizer and spirit dampener. raw reiatsu is not the only determinant of power, otherwise kenchan and ichigo would be mostly unstoppable.

level heavily implies power, its why hadou 90 OHKO'ed komakoma and 60ish was able to bind renji, while bakudo wasnt able to even bind human ichigo.

[lommm]

ishida ftw!

actually, lendial, if i remember right, when renji first encountered szayella.... #8, #8 told renji that he (#8) was weak for an espada.

i'm sure he'll still get to realease. or else it really is ishida ftw!

[lucasd]

Whatever the case may be, our mad scientist has data on Ichigo too - bankai and hollow.

So even for Ichigo it is convenient that Quincy is fighting.