Attack on Titan - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

I
wow, so that was planned by Author himself ?
Original Annie doesn't look sexually arouse though

Yep, here is apparently a post from his blog.

Spoiler for space:

There seems to be many questions about this so I will answer.

“Annie’s reaction” in episode 23 of the anime was planned by me.



In the scene where Annie confesses her true self, even after it released in book format, I thought I wanted to do something more like this. I had some pretty strong regrets about it, so I planned it like this (for the anime) ↓



“I like the feel of the original scene, but…” 
I spoke to the director and ended up sending him this rough sketch.

image


Though… when I looked at it again, I felt like the plan I made was a little much.
 An expression that conveys “sadness,” “shyness,” “openness,” mixed with “guilt,” “lonesomeness,” and “fear”… No, it’s excessive…

(Translator’s Note: The sketch has some notes like “A: Laughing. B: Crying. C: Mischievous.
(Arrow pointing from A to C, another note saying “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”)
"Now there’s no need to tell lies anymore.. Like a normal 16 year old girl, Guilty, lonely, fearful.")


In short, I thought Annie should show herself completely bare, as she really is. 
After everything she did in her monster form, I didn’t want her to be seen as just a bad guy. I wanted to give the sense that she is an “average person.”



And I thought the anime’s art, production, and performance was



SUPER EXCELLENT!!



The scene, with its gradual tension, fit my image for it so well that my stomach was churning.



I also like the first half of the original scene. And the script. Marlo’s experiences became part of the script. They were more than just simple words in the original. I think they were more persuasive and quite wonderful.



Also when Marlo got help from Annie and Hitch, who he looks down on, and his increased frustration. I liked that part too.



(Translator’s Note: I haven’t caught up this far so apologies if I got something wrong about the episode)

By the way, if there was a Marlo character song I think “The Choice is Yours” by Rhymester would be fitting. This song was playing on Jounetsu Tairiku (music show), which I watched before Shingeki started. This made me unusually happy.

Isayama is beyond happy with how Annie looks in anime so I guess we will have to accept her "orgasm" face.

[playmaker2k]

By word of god, huh?

I'm okay with this.

[thundrakkon]

There is a lot of Annie hate, it seems. I feel like I should withhold judgment until we find out the reason why. There must be a logical reason why she is doing what she is doing, not to mention the fact that she was crying (I didn't know titans had tear glands) in her titan form. A tough girl like her would not cry for without a reason. I'm still suspicious that she was going to be punished for her failure, like she could have been blackmailed, and people close to her will be hurt because of her failure. So I'm going to reserve judgment until we find out more.

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

Holy crap the scene where all the people try to jump Annie was kind of funny because they had fat people doing parkour moves off of buldings..

That was PSY making a cameo!

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

Raises your hand if you are still a pure anime viewer (meaning you have not touch the manga yet)

Gotta respect you for surviving so many cliffhanger... XD

I still don't understand the assumption that people can't control themselves and have to read the manga. Yes, there are some people like that, but there are anime-only viewers for many other reasons.

1) They don't have access to the manga or don't know how to get it.
2) They like watching anime and don't read any manga in general (that's me, btw).
3) They don't realize a manga exist.
4) They are casual anime viewers (don't watch anime much).
5) They don't read the manga until after the anime is over.

Well, at least for me, it makes watching the episodes much more exciting.

Originally Posted by JamJackEvo

Bet you won't see the kind of ending coming in the last episode.

It's been mention for the last couple of threads that the ending is unpredictable. Great! I usually hope endings are unpredictable, but as long as it is a good ending. I hate endings like the ones from Pumpkin Scissors. However, I do hope this is the last reminder that the ending is unpredictable.

If I had to guess on the ending,

Spoilers

Spoiler for Ending speculation

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[Randrak42]

*grumble*Still didn't like it*grumble*

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Spoilers

Spoiler for Ending speculation

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Spoiler for Not really:

..and his father's real name is Zeus.

[kitten320]

While I'm not a manga reader, at least not a proper one, I personally find it very hard to surf around net without spoiling myself because spoilers are everywhere.

So I honestly have to admire people who manage to do that.

Originally Posted by Randrak42

*grumble*Still didn't like it*grumble*

Can't say I was big fan of the change either but it made me wonder just what kind of person she really is behind that forced cold mask.

[Chiaki_chan]

My god I just see this episode........ Annie I love her but............... I hope she not died after :'(

[frodonk]

HA! after weeks of holding it in, failing to, and having mod delete posts everywhere, people can finally shout who FT is.

as for the other special titans, I'm speculating that they've already been shown before.

and now that wall sina has been breached, people will be even more paranoid, and will try to have eren killed out of fear.

[White Manju Bun]

Im so gar for Mikasa after she ripped off her cloak.

A lot of build up but that ending scene was insane. Annie laughing scared me more then her death gaze.

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Im so gar for Mikasa after she ripped off her cloak.

A lot of build up but that ending scene was insane. Annie laughing scared me more then her death gaze.

lol, her death gaze was 10 times freakier in the manga. At first I thought it was drawn differently but turns out the lack of pupil color in the eye is all it took.

Images

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[kitsunisan]

Originally Posted by frodonk

HA! after weeks of holding it in, failing to, and having mod delete posts everywhere, people can finally shout who FT is.

as for the other special titans, I'm speculating that they've already been shown before.

and now that wall sina has been breached, people will be even more paranoid, and will try to have eren killed out of fear.

I have to say, as a manga reader, sometimes it's hard to bite my tongue, though I've managed to do so. Two weeks of that guy insisting they should have a tree base in the forest...god...

I actually like the added scene with Annie, though the blushing was a bit overboard. I'm sure it must have been a huge relief to be done with the lying.

[Flolan]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Can't say I was big fan of the change either but it made me wonder just what kind of person she really is behind that forced cold mask.

Well the author himself pretty much said it didnt he.

Though… when I looked at it again, I felt like the plan I made was a little much.
 An expression that conveys “sadness,” “shyness,” “openness,” mixed with “guilt,” “lonesomeness,” and “fear”… No, it’s excessive…

(Translator’s Note: The sketch has some notes like “A: Laughing. B: Crying. C: Mischievous.
(Arrow pointing from A to C, another note saying “the character she’s built for herself, sadly opening up, laughing shyly”)
"Now there’s no need to tell lies anymore.. Like a normal 16 year old girl, Guilty, lonely, fearful.")


In short, I thought Annie should show herself completely bare, as she really is. 
After everything she did in her monster form, I didn’t want her to be seen as just a bad guy. I wanted to give the sense that she is an “average person.”



Guilty, lonely, fearful... sad. She is obviously no cold blooded murderer, its much more complicated than that.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by lateraldeath

lol, her death gaze was 10 times freakier in the manga. At first I thought it was drawn differently but turns out the lack of pupil color in the eye is all it took.

Images

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I'm also routinely frustrated that a lot of people online can describe eyes like this disturbing but always have the crux of WHY on the tip of their tongue.

It's the pupils that are constricted/dilated that sell it really. Constricted ones for fear/hatred and dilated for the opposite.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Ichigo91

Great episode!

But why did Mikasa stop from Eren going forward to Annie? he might have stopped her spilling blood to transform into Titan

I don't think Eren was paying any attention to detail like Mikasa was. Once Mikasa saw the distinct type of ring, she knew it was too late to stop Annie from transforming. As Levi pointed out in the last episode, trying to kill FT is a failed strategy. All those people died at Annie's hand because they all went for the kill and it seems fragile human form wouldn't be enough to take down Annie in her FT form because she is just too good of a pilot. Mikasa was wise to run away the other way.

P.S. Annie character discussion thread has been created, so any Annie related discussion can go there.

[Double_Edge]

[snip]

This was a weak episode. Nothing really cool about it, it's just frustrating to see how scummy the Police are. Best part of the episode IMO was Mikasas pose when she drew her sword and that random bakery guy free running like someone half his weight (the sound effect of his speed killed it for me XD).

Also, I feel like they just randomly added in Marco's 3d gear thing to fill in some plot holes. But I don't see why they needed to. Weren't they checking to see when the last time a 3d gear was used (how would they determine that in the first place though?)? it would have been better if Marco was mentioned to be detained or something. As it stands now, whether or not Annie used her own gear wouldn't have made a difference since nothing came from the investigation.

And does anyone else think that Armin is exceedingly calm? he had no reaction at the time he allegedly noticed Annie wasn't using her gear and apparently he had a strong feeling FT was her during a good part of the expedition but he wasn't freaking out or really thinking about it. And we spent alot of time in his head the last few episodes.

I'm liking Eren less and less with each episode. He's a shell of his former self. He doesn't have the conviction or killer instinct he once had. In the previews it says he still think of her as "Just Annie". I mean, were they even good friends to begin with? They hardly had any interactions Why is he sympathizing with her so much? She killed his teammates and Armin said she was the one who brought all the Titans in the initial attack. Which means it is her fault his mother died. He went from being angry, headstrong and impulsive to acting scared and doubtful all the time.

I do hope she shakes things up in wall Sina though. I always thought this series would be about class warfare because of how the nature of the walls. And I hated seeing the inner city people in a previous episode acting all haughty and wearing their top hats and stuff. I think they need to be brought back down to Earth.

[Revolutionist]

Annie's good in her titan form, but you just know it's a matter of time before Mikasa gets a power up and then it won't matter how good she is.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Annie's good in her titan form, but you just know it's a matter of time before Mikasa gets a power up and then it won't matter how good she is.

Mikasa is very good compared to others, but I don't know how much power-up she can get to have any significant effect on the likes of FT. The only time I can see her having any effect on Annie is if Mikasa also finds a way to transform into a titan.

[oompa loompa]

didn't like annies pseudo sexual laugh at the end. way over the top. they should've just stuck to the material and had her give a slight grin

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

[snip]

This was a weak episode. Nothing really cool about it, it's just frustrating to see how scummy the Police are. Best part of the episode IMO was Mikasas pose when she drew her sword and that random bakery guy free running like someone half his weight (the sound effect of his speed killed it for me XD).

Also, I feel like they just randomly added in Marco's 3d gear thing to fill in some plot holes. But I don't see why they needed to. Weren't they checking to see when the last time a 3d gear was used (how would they determine that in the first place though?)? it would have been better if Marco was mentioned to be detained or something. As it stands now, whether or not Annie used her own gear wouldn't have made a difference since nothing came from the investigation.

And does anyone else think that Armin is exceedingly calm? he had no reaction at the time he allegedly noticed Annie wasn't using her gear and apparently he had a strong feeling FT was her during a good part of the expedition but he wasn't freaking out or really thinking about it. And we spent alot of time in his head the last few episodes.

I'm liking Eren less and less with each episode. He's a shell of his former self. He doesn't have the conviction or killer instinct he once had. In the previews it says he still think of her as "Just Annie". I mean, were they even good friends to begin with? They hardly had any interactions Why is he sympathizing with her so much? She killed his teammates and Armin said she was the one who brought all the Titans in the initial attack. Which means it is her fault his mother died. He went from being angry, headstrong and impulsive to acting scared and doubtful all the time.

I do hope she shakes things up in wall Sina though. I always thought this series would be about class warfare because of how the nature of the walls. And I hated seeing the inner city people in a previous episode acting all haughty and wearing their top hats and stuff. I think they need to be brought back down to Earth.

I don't know about that, marco's death may still play a part. Isayama isn't really the type of author to randomly give details like that, especially considering how many times its been mentioned. As far as armin's calmness is concerned, people underestimate him. He's not a random weak flunky, although he is scared of fighting titans, he has a brain which runs like clockwork. As shown in the episode, believing that annie was a titan was so far removed from his train of thought, he didn't even consider it. It's not like the maneuver gear was bar coded or anything, he could only at best have a suspicion that it was marcos. About eren, well thats the thing, hes all angry and head strong but hes human still. and annie scares the shit out of him, because he knows he cant beat her 1v1. As far as them being friends are concerned, yes, they are all very good friends even if it isn't explicitly mentioned. We've seen how close they all are from the trost arc, up until now.

[monir]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

didn't like annies pseudo sexual laugh at the end. way over the top. they should've just stuck to the material and had her give a slight grin

That scene is there too. Here is the anime comparison to the manga panel for the scene you are talking about:

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by Theo

I'm also routinely frustrated that a lot of people online can describe eyes like this disturbing but always have the crux of WHY on the tip of their tongue.

It's the pupils that are constricted/dilated that sell it really. Constricted ones for fear/hatred and dilated for the opposite.

Well, once you have to color the pupil, the constriction becomes a lot less obvious. The center of the eye will always be black. But everything else around it that's not white like a manga serves as a distraction to the "fear". Conveniently enough you can just look at Monir's post above this and compare.