[PS3/PSV] Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki

[Nighty40]

Originally Posted by Rinvelt

By the way, Estelle has almost the same outfit as previous games, but with bigger boobs.
Doesn't that remind you of someone?
Elie being canon romance confirmed!

*runs far away*

I'm only now starting on Zero but I'm guess Elie had the most push as Lloyd's love interests in the story?

[rladls2121]

To me, Lloyd and Elie shipping realistically makes the most sense out of all the other Kiseki main protagonist so far.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Nighty40

I wish more would think like that to be honest, I feel like the Alisa hate stems from two things the slap from the beginning of the first game (yes some these people still won't let that go) or they just want their waifu of choice to be the heroine which shouldn't matter for two reasons, number 1 the player has choices and number 2 every old class VII member who's name isn't Rean Schwarzer pretty much took a back seat in 3 until the last chapter (granted 4 is changing that but they're still not on the front cover)

The Alisa hate bugs me too. Even gameplaywise she is the best support and acts as a cp battery for others with great healing and last stand (going upto Sen 2). Storywise she is engaged enough because of her family situation and develops nicely as a character as well. And then comes Sen 3 with both Rean and Alisa's Dads being major antagonists. I would say the pair is destined.....

The thing about Alisa and Laura is that they can be very good friends with Rean as well even without little or no shipping. I like their normal interactions as well and really wish there was more of that.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Sorry i don't see any realistic way Estelle even standing a chance against Rean, Llyod maybe but not Rean. Even without Orge Mode, Rean has gone up against some of the strongest people in Erebonia. With Orge Mode, only the resident Gods and Jesuses of Trails-verse can take him down. Rean has gone up against a Enforcer gaunlet while having to protect a princess. Lets just say, while Rean has great leadership skills his strongest fights are when he is alone as he doesn't need to hold back.

lolo no. Lloyd is definitely not stronger than Estelle. You have to play Zero and Ao to understand this. Plus Lloyd's best trait isn't combat anyway, but insight. He's just good enough so you can't take him down easily. All 3 of the them have been through their share of crap gained tons of leadership skills and fought against near unbeatable foes so this isn't unique to Rean. In fact Estelle would probably have the most experience in this after going everything in FC, SC, The Third then Zero and Ao. Now she getting dragged into the mess in Erebonia. She not currently an A rank Bracer for nothing. I can agree Rean would probably beat at her due ogre mode granting him more potential on top being an Eight Leaves User, but it would be no cakewalk for him.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Applehell

lolo no. Lloyd is definitely not stronger than Estelle. You have to play Zero and Ao to understand this. Plus Lloyd's best trait isn't combat anyway, but insight. He's just good enough so you can't take him down easily. All 3 of the them have been through their share of crap gained tons of leadership skills and fought against near unbeatable foes so this isn't unique to Rean. In fact Estelle would probably have the most experience in this after going everything in FC, SC, The Third then Zero and Ao. Now she getting dragged into the mess in Erebonia. She not currently an A rank Bracer for nothing. I can agree Rean would probably beat at her due ogre mode granting him more potential on top being an Eight Leaves User, but it would be no cakewalk for him.

Being an Eight-leaves user may even be a disadvantage for him, as Estelle and Joshua have fought and defeated at least two previous Eight-leaves users before (Anelace and Richard) and Estelle, of course, is the daughter of a Divine Wind herself. Estelle probably has some of the most experience in fighting a Tachi user.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Applehell

lolo no. Lloyd is definitely not stronger than Estelle. You have to play Zero and Ao to understand this. Plus Lloyd's best trait isn't combat anyway, but insight. He's just good enough so you can't take him down easily. All 3 of the them have been through their share of crap gained tons of leadership skills and fought against near unbeatable foes so this isn't unique to Rean. In fact Estelle would probably have the most experience in this after going everything in FC, SC, The Third then Zero and Ao. Now she getting dragged into the mess in Erebonia. She not currently an A rank Bracer for nothing. I can agree Rean would probably beat at her due ogre mode granting him more potential on top being an Eight Leaves User, but it would be no cakewalk for him.

Orge Mode Rean > Rean/Joshua > Estelle > Lloyd

Sorry there is no was Estelle is stronger than Rean here, Orge mode Rean is out of the question. Enforcer Gaunlet and Boss Gaunlets > Jaegar Gaunlet.

Rean and Laura also had much tougher training at start considering who their teachers are and if we go by their dialouge. Estelle had at most 2-3 years of experience and most of that time she had an x-enforcer babysitter.

Sorry as much as i appreciate Estelle's growth, Rean is stronger than her. Unless she defeats/draws with Wallace the Black Tornado or goes through a Enforcer Gaunlet (CS version) by herself, she is weaker than Rean in power levels. Sen 3 Rean is atleast equal to Sara/Wallace/Similar leveled people and Orge Mode Rean can give even Aurelia trouble (he made her kneel).

The only way Estelle can give trouble to Rean is if he holds back a lot........which he will since he doesn't have a reason to fight her in the first place.

[Mirable]

Not to mention Orge Mode Rean isn't even his final form i mean his demon form like McBurn.

Once Rean can fully use his demon form like McBurn..i can't imagine someone can win Rean in the fight without Rean hold himself back.

[Marina2]

There are a lot of thing Estelle can do during 2-3 years time skip. As Bracer, she will gather a lot of experience in fighting with many strong opponents in many difficult situations. She can power-up a lot during those time. She can also train with the divine blade + two Ex-enforcers to improve her skill all the time if she wants. In SEN4, she probably capable of winning in 1-1 fight enforcer now and when she teams up with Joshua and Renne, their team work will probably able to defeat strong opponents.

Still, I expect that Estelle's role will be a person who can bring the light back into Rean or put him out of his depression.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Orge Mode Rean > Rean/Joshua > Estelle > Lloyd

Sorry there is no was Estelle is stronger than Rean here, Orge mode Rean is out of the question. Enforcer Gaunlet and Boss Gaunlets > Jaegar Gaunlet.

Rean and Laura also had much tougher training at start considering who their teachers are and if we go by their dialouge. Estelle had at most 2-3 years of experience and most of that time she had an x-enforcer babysitter.

Sorry as much as i appreciate Estelle's growth, Rean is stronger than her. Unless she defeats/draws with Wallace the Black Tornado or goes through a Enforcer Gaunlet (CS version) by herself, she is weaker than Rean in power levels. Sen 3 Rean is atleast equal to Sara/Wallace/Similar leveled people and Orge Mode Rean can give even Aurelia trouble (he made her kneel).

The only way Estelle can give trouble to Rean is if he holds back a lot........which he will since he doesn't have a reason to fight her in the first place.

Originally Posted by Mirable

Not to mention Orge Mode Rean isn't even his final form i mean his demon form like McBurn.

Once Rean can fully use his demon form like McBurn..i can't imagine someone can win Rean in the fight without Rean hold himself back.

Eh, no you are still selling her short. First off Rean isn't anything she has faced before and she fought both humans and demons. Ogre Rean isn't omnipotent fighter, Victor proved that already and he's like Cassius is weaker than Lowe (without using Eight Leaves anyway) whom she held her own against 2 years ago, twice might I add. MeoTwister is on point about her familiar with Eight Leaves style becasue there too many people around her who practice it. We also have no idea hat her skill level is post Ao, but she was already able to perform Cassius' Phoenix Destroyer (it's one of her S-Crafts in Zero/Ao) which destroyed an powerful Arachism in one hit that entire FC party was struggling with. Who knows where she is now in terms of skill.

As I said, I think Rean still holds the edge but he has beaten even with Ogre mode by more experienced fighters.

And Lowe and McBurn at least on the same level.

[Nighty40]

With all that going on Rean teaming up with Lloyd and Estelle for a chapter or at least a boss fight would be badass

[Applehell]

I would not be surprised if that happened.

At very least I suspect we be able to configure parties however we want like at end of CSIII anyway.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by LROlsson

Dengeki stream on Thursday.
Will have new information, an interview and show footage of the game for the first time.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ublz-nFd7-A

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I almost forgot about live steam today.

Anyone know what did the interview say?

Originally Posted by Nighty40

With all that going on Rean teaming up with Lloyd and Estelle for a chapter or at least a boss fight would be badass

Final battle - casts split into 3 groups: 1.Sky Group, 2. Zero/AO group, 3.CS group and they go to defeat their respective "final boss"

Make it happens Falcom!

[Rinvelt]

And still no real image of the pocket watch... But they say it's normal and the hidden mechanism isn't here, just a stylish pocket watch.

[akira77]

Power level in kiseki world

[Marx-93]

I mean, it's not like they the power levels are 'fixed'. It's mentioned a lot of times during the various games how determination and will can change the outcome of a battle, and we have weird stuff like Joshua overcoming Loewe or Victor tying McBurn happening all the time. Heck, it was even outright said by Kondo, when he mentioned that Loewe was more powerful than Cassius, but Cassius was 'stronger', because he was smarter in reading the flow of the battle and was more resolved.

Comparing Estelle (and Lloyd) with Rean is very hard because they're basically opposite in that. Estelle is very normal compared to most people in Zemuria, but her will is of adamantium and if she has to do something she will. Even more extreme with Lloyd. Rean in contrast is man with like hundred of different aces in his sleeves, but who is almost constantly emotionally compromised in some way and always has some kind of self-imposed limit on himself. To make it simple, in a spar with ogre mode Rean would obliterate Estelle, but in a real fight with a lot on the line, experience and will become much more important.

Also, the dengeki stream was very cool. Not a trailer, but we have a lot of stuff there.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

It took three games of unreasonable mess and issues and the death of a close person to make Rean completely snap (add to that the demon power getting stronger by itself).............i don't think Rean is losing in determination front here. He had to pick himself back up several times from far more serious issues. If the writers don't decide to mess with him again, Rean won't really lose to the previous mcs skill or powerwise.

Also those screenshots, Schera's chest is in full view behind that bracer logo............hiding her face doesn't work .

[dragon1412]

Purely from feats and comments in verse; i'd say Rean >= Joshua > Lloyd. Rean stronger than Lloyd is rather obvious from what happened at the end of CS2, Joshua though, is very hard to say, since the best feat we got from him was solo Loewe, but the fight is rigged through the fact that the entire party jump Loewe before the fight and the talk with Loewe as well as chance of Loewe letting Joshua have his chance and there is also the fact that Joshua might losing his speed in that fight, fact still stand, Joshua still capable of fighting Loewe to a standstill 1 on 1 for a while. Which give him quite a lot of point. Again, this also in a degree apply to Rean, since he jump McBurn with his party, who is as strong as Arianrhod herself, but the fight hardly count due to external factor. So Rean would roughly be equal to Joshua in my eyes, though Ogre Rean is different story. I'd say Ogre Rean is stronger than Joshua for now. As for Lloyd, his strength was never his best point anyway, something he himself admit

Estelle though; i think she is weaker than Rean; 1 point is that in CS3 Rean is already at least Wallace levels; prove by their duel; and when people talk about experience; Rean literallly been through a war and goes back, and he fought in his life, Arianrhod, McBurn, Zephyr, Aurelia, etc, Rean bar of opponents is much stronger than Estelle opponents. If anything, the fact that she trained in 8 leaves actually leave her more vulnerable, since Rean practiced directly under Ka Fai, and he isn't affected by the water down version of staff, again, given his familiarity with the style, the issues of experiences and knowledge of techniques apply to them both, though this fight will probably won't happen, since the image show that Cassius probably going there to handle Rean personally, which we already can guess how that turn out

I'm one of those who is impartial to shipping in CS franchise, since i was on team Laura on CS1, jump ship to Alfin in CS2, and Jump ship again to Altina in CS3. But i don''t think there is an official pairing here or that it's don't matter as much, i mean, look at Lloyd at CS2 end, no matter how people claim Elie canon, fact is, Lloyd is still as much as a womanizer as ever. That guy is scary, i mean, not counting Bond event, Lloyd still attract girls left and right. I'm more indifferent to Alissa rather than like or hate her though. Again, i don't think any full end girls is fully canon, since if we remove all bonding events, i'd say Claire have more feeling toward Rean than Alissa.

[The Green One]

Nice to see some rational people about ships. I have my preferred person to pair Rean with but I don't throw stones at someone who has a different preferred pairing then me. Good to see other like minded people. Way to many people who are annoyingly toxic about it. Really soured the phrase "best girl" for me.

[Lhklan]

To be honest, I fully expect Altina to be the one snapping Rean's out of his funk. Their bond is the one that grew the fastest and dare I say it, strongest since they came to know each other.

Not counting any bonding events, Rean and Altina went from ennemies, to grudging partners, to practically brother-sister/father-daughter.

Plus, this way, Falcom solves all the shipping problems they inadvertently created.

(My headcannon: part of the reason Rean snapped at the end of CS3 was the possibility of his "daughter" becoming like Millium)

[Nighty40]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Nice to see some rational people about ships. I have my preferred person to pair Rean with but I don't throw stones at someone who has a different preferred pairing then me. Good to see other like minded people. Way to many people who are annoyingly toxic about it. Really soured the phrase "best girl" for me.

Yeah sites like Gematsu, Reddit, and the gamefaqs forums are full of people who want to start these waifu wars and don’t get me started on Xseed’s Twitter I’ve seen people write “Laura is best girl Alisa 10 ten worst RPG girls hur hur don’t reply if you don’t agree” which is stupid to write don’t reply when saying shit like that is asking for it