Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[_Misfit]

Originally Posted by Thess

Because if Satomi was there, they would have spoiled the twist that everyone could become a pilot and a Valvrave could have multiple pilots? Not to mention that in the first flashback, only Saki and Haruto, were pilots.

Yes....but that still doesn't answer exactly why Saki has been a major focus in the future. You do remember that Saki and Satomi aren't the only people who can live forever right? Any of the pilots could have been shown to live over 200 years. My question is just why Saki is so important that she occupies all of the future scenes. To be honest, i'm not all that curious about Satomi.

[Golos]

Originally Posted by _Misfit

My question is just why Saki is so important that she occupies all of the future scenes.

Showing other present character in the future would spoil too much and she is the one of the main four who wants to be immortal and has the least plot-relevant background.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by _Misfit

Any of the pilots could have been shown to live over 200 years.

Maybe they are dead. Only other one confirmed with Satomi was Akira who became a pilot after they show the flashback. Who cares anyway? The future is just an epilogue that isn't part of the main storyline. Saki's purpose so far has been infodumping history records to the Prince.

[Kurohane]

^ Except the very first one.

[Guido]

Honestly, I find interesting the subplot involving the Dorssian Royalists, as well as H-Neun agenda. Him referenced as a traitor by Q-Vier in this episode made the plot more obscure in concerning to his whereabouts whether he's dead or not. In contrast, I found L-Elf's subplot about his past and present with Lisselotte a bit of a lukewarm but is interesting to know that she was involved with the Magius in the past, hence, Cain admonishing her at the start of the episode for betraying them. Now, whether Lisselotte is a kamitsuki like the rest of the other Magius or not remains to be seen, but it is known that she defied them due not bearing any longer what they were doing:
1. The obscure ritual which involves extracting vast quantities of rune from large number of innocent people used as guinea pigs.

2. Other things. Perhaps, she has some knowledge on the VVV Project. I assume that all the Magius are naturally acquainted with the VVV Project, because I presume they were the ones sponsoring it behind the scenes.

This brings forward the answers that many of us asked in the first episode of the previous season:
1. What were the teachers at the academy on Module 77 doing by keeping the Valvraves in a secret facility?

2. What do they hope to accomplish in creating the Valvraves?

Pretty much sums up that Haruto's father fulfills the mad scientist trope with mania delusions of grandeur. What's more disturbing is that he and his fellows scientists got everything planned in advance and covered up, and I say in decades.
Speculations:
- The Magius must have provided the JIORians scientists with either genetic manipulation knowledge or the genome that awakens in the selected individuals the compatibility to operate the Valvrave, as well as awakening into Homo sapiens novus (a.k.a. kamitsuki) .

- A concrete fact is that the staff and scientists involved themselves and their families to give birth to children being borned with the potential to become Homo sapiens novus and developing afffinity with the Valvrave.
This could explain why Pino told L-Elf that his Rune didn't seem tasty to her, therefore, not capable to pilot Valvrave. It seems plausible that L-Elf was not genetically engineered or modified at the time of his birth.

Speculations:
- This is not a project that spans a few decades. I believe the Magius had it planned from an era a long time ago but waited until the technology and conditions were riped to go on ahead with the VVV Project.

- Haruto planning to destroy the Valvraves for good might possibly inflict a serious delay on whatever the Magius are plotting, but I do not believe it'll have serious consequences for them at the very long, long term.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Guido

Honestly, I find interesting the subplot involving the Dorssian Royalists, as well as H-Neun agenda. Him referenced as a traitor by Q-Vier in this episode made the plot more obscure in concerning to his whereabouts whether he's dead or not. In contrast, I found L-Elf's subplot about his past and present with Lisselotte a bit of a lukewarm but is interesting to know that she was involved with the Magius in the past, hence, Cain admonishing her at the start of the episode for betraying them. Now, whether Lisselotte is a kamitsuki like the rest of the other Magius or not remains to be seen, but it is known that she defied them due not bearing any longer what they were doing:
1. The obscure ritual which involves extracting vast quantities of rune from large number of innocent people used as guinea pigs.

2. Other things. Perhaps, she has some knowledge on the VVV Project. I assume that all the Magius are naturally acquainted with the VVV Project, because I presume they were the ones sponsoring it behind the scenes.

This brings forward the answers that many of us asked in the first episode of the previous season:
1. What were the teachers at the academy on Module 77 doing by keeping the Valvraves in a secret facility?

2. What do they hope to accomplish in creating the Valvraves?

Pretty much sums up that Haruto's father fulfills the mad scientist trope with mania delusions of grandeur. What's more disturbing is that he and his fellows scientists got everything planned in advance and covered up, and I say in decades.
Speculations:
- The Magius must have provided the JIORians scientists with either genetic manipulation knowledge or the genome that awakens in the selected individuals the compatibility to operate the Valvrave, as well as awakening into Homo sapiens novus (a.k.a. kamitsuki) .

- A concrete fact is that the staff and scientists involved themselves and their families to give birth to children being borned with the potential to become Homo sapiens novus and developing afffinity with the Valvrave.
This could explain why Pino told L-Elf that his Rune didn't seem tasty to her, therefore, not capable to pilot Valvrave. It seems plausible that L-Elf was not genetically engineered or modified at the time of his birth.

Speculations:
- This is not a project that spans a few decades. I believe the Magius had it planned from an era a long time ago but waited until the technology and conditions were riped to go on ahead with the VVV Project.

- Haruto planning to destroy the Valvraves for good might possibly inflict a serious delay on whatever the Magius are plotting, but I do not believe it'll have serious consequences for them at the very long, long term.

Actually, the official story was that H-neun was a traitor selling secrets and that was why he was killed. That's why Q-vier said that.

The Magius actually didn't know about the Valvrave project until Cain heard from Dorssia and was then sent to investigate. That was why the council brought in Amadeus from the info gleaned by Cain. Cain didn't know much about the Valvraves until he saw them in action in the first season. He got the information and gave it to the council and then went in to try to take at least VVV1 away, especially when he found that was the one that contained Pino.

The scientists of JIOR most likely found Pino and Magius technology and tried to reverse engineer it, as well as trying to make stronger human beings by using Magius tech and genes. They were messing with stuff they didn't really know about and created the Valvraves and a subspecies of Magius as a result.

[MeggieMay]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

The Magius actually didn't know about the Valvrave project until Cain heard from Dorssia and was then sent to investigate. That was why the council brought in Amadeus from the info gleaned by Cain. Cain didn't know much about the Valvraves until he saw them in action in the first season. He got the information and gave it to the council and then went in to try to take at least VVV1 away, especially when he found that was the one that contained Pino.

Actually, my memories of Season 1 are that Cain knew about Valvraves and sent L Elf and Q Ver in to take pictures and jack at least one of the Valvraves just to back up what he knew. Cain seem to know about what was going on, though the Magius 101 Council didn't. Actually Cain knowing what was going on is what started H Neun down the path of not trusting him. He realized H Neun knew more about what was going on than they did before they went and got the recon info. Then Cain jacked VVII with Prue and I felt that episode made it clear that Cain not only knew about the Valvraves but VVII had been his at some time in the past. Cain seemed to know Pino was there - it was Prue who was surprised.

That said to me that Cain was involved with the Valvrave project and it wasn't until we learned the Council didn't know, which I think was Ep 1 S2, did it start not being clear if Cain was involved. It takes it back to the issue I was having in S1 about Cain sending L Elf and Q Ver in to jack the machines in the first place. I thought he wouldn't do that unless it would work but we learned this season it wouldn't work. Cain not realizing it wouldn't work plays into the idea he wasn't involved but then again I'm not so sure about that still. It could be he really did intend to off L Elf and Q Ver or at least didn't care if it didn't work. At the time it didn't make sense for him to get rid of L Elf but after we learned of the problems of him trying to grab Lise three years before, it does give us a reason L Elf may have been expendable (he obviously wasn't 100% loyal to Cain). Offing Q Ver isn't exactly ever not made sense IMO - kids bat sh*t and not too smart on top of that

It's possible, probably highly likely at this point, that Cain didn't understand at the very least that kids were genetically altered but that doesn't rule him out not being involved in some way. He might have known and was just checking to see if it worked ofrhe thought there was some workaround and didn't realize exactly what was going on. Either way, I keep wondering if he's really the one behind the Valvrave project. Remember, he did mention he was doing this for his Clan and IMO it isn't clear exactly what is going on with that comment now. Also, it's possible that these discrepancies are writing errors and it's a case of the writers changing their minds on Cain's back story/how he fits into things verse Cain really being behind anything with the Valvraves. I can't quite tell what is going on with some of this plot at this point .

[Irenesharda]

^Actually in the beginning, Cain and his forces were sent into Module 77 because Dorssia itself had gotten intel on the VVV project and that JIOR was creating a new weapon of mass destruction. Cain's team was to go in there, acknowledge that there was such a weapon and then commandeer it. The presence of such weapon would allow Dorssia to attack JIOR under the excuse that JIOR was creating weapons secretly even though they declared themselves neutral. This would then be seen as a threat against their fellow countries, etc. etc. It was all a large political and military move on Dorssia part totally, and this plot ploy is has been used several times in sunrise series, in Gundams original, Z, Wing, and Seed, just to name a few.

Cain heard from Dorssia about the Valvraves from Amadeus and was probably secret mission for them, since Amadeus was surprised that the Magius knew about Cain's mission and then shocked that it was Cain himself that had told them. Cain knew the barest details about the Valvraves from the intel report. He latter got more information as he got more pictures and watched it in action. You could see from those scenes that he was studying the photos and talking to himself while observing, that he was figuring out the Valvrave's capabilities in comparison with his own Magius knowledge. He seemed like he knew more than he was telling because he did. He knew the Valvraves were based on his people's technology and what his people called certain phenomena. It was why he said the Valvrave was "alive" because he knew it was powered by one of his people as a conduit since he could recognize the manipulation of runes. He also could figure out about the "Light of Rune" and he figured out that it was Pino that was the source of the Valvrave's power. He also has stated and alluded to several times that the VVV are the key to helping to save himself and his people, though how we don't know yet. Cain seems to be about helping his people and is loyal to the council (as inferred through his accusation of betrayal towards Lieselotte), so he reported all he knew about the Valvraves to them. This is why they are also preparing this ceremony as well, which I'm beginning to think may help create a way for them to finally contact their homeworld.

I don't think Cain was involved in the project as he wouldn't have needed to figure things out as he went and he would have known exactly that it was Pino in the engine and that she and Prue were "the original pair" rather than trying to confirm it in his mind. As for H-neun, he didn't start suspecting Cain until episode 12 when he saw him transform. It was Kriem that began to suspect Cain from all his weird speech considering the Valvraves. Also, he didn't only send L-elf and Q-vier he sent the whole team, however, he knew that trying to get 5 students with their faces might have sent up red flags since these boys do have a military reputation, which is why they only sent two pics in saying that two students were joining the school. It wouldn't have had to fool them long anyway since the Karlstein boys were trained to kill witnesses immediately. If any one was meant to pilot (that's not sure either since in the end they really just packed it up and had scientists study it) L-elf was probably meant to be the pilot as the most trained. If Cain knew as much at the time about the Valvraves, do you really think he would risk his "greatest creation" to be instantly destroyed? Not that Pino would have done so since no pilot had yet to be picked anyway.

[Kurohane]

About their homeworld, humanity is now able to travel through space and created the Dyson Sphere. The technology has reached the point of traveling through space, and repairing their vessel, so why do the magius stay here?

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

About their homeworld, humanity is now able to travel through space and created the Dyson Sphere. The technology has reached the point of traveling through space, and repairing their vessel, so why do the magius stay here?

Its been several hundred years since they've arrived. Maybe they've become fond of earth?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

About their homeworld, humanity is now able to travel through space and created the Dyson Sphere. The technology has reached the point of traveling through space, and repairing their vessel, so why do the magius stay here?

Actually, I think that's what this whole plot with the Magius is about. I think they are gathering all these runes, using the tech of the Valvrave, etc. to create a way for them to get home. This is what Cain keeps talking about when he says that with the Valvraves he can save his life and that of his people.

Humanity does have the ability to travel out in space but they don't have the ability to do interstellar flight yet. If they did, they would have had colonized more than just the moon. The "Dyson Spheres" are all misnamed and are really just space colonies with a light source. The Magius for reasons unknown, still can't create a way to contact their homeworld or rebuild their ship. It could be possible that they are able to send a signal using this ceremony they're going to do, and they can probably use the rave engine of the Valvrave to try to create a ship that they would power themselves. The Rave Engine is the only one of its kind created that can run on runes. The Magius probably didn't have the resources or blueprint to build one themselves, as they had lost all their tech in the crash. JIOR probably found the tech in some sort of excavation where the found Pino and the tech from her and Prue's downed ship that they reversed engineered to become the Valvraves.