2023-08-13, 09:54 | Link #4662 | |
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2023-08-13, 12:29 | Link #4663 |
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Yeah, that should most likely be Lina, if not for her alleged future sight then for her course of action in (most likely) summoning Rio and Sora to the castle, there just isn't any other being that should be interested in helping Haruto out, or has such easy access to Miharu's head (she sorta lives there), if that's not Lina then how did she even figure out who Miharu is.
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2023-08-13, 13:20 | Link #4664 | |||
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Also, we don't know the authorities of the other six wise Gods, we can't say Lina's future sight is the only way to see the future, they could have had a way to steal Lina's knowledge of the future or Lina could have leaked them somehow false knowledge about the future on purpose for having them colaborating with her plan unknowingly. Lina lost the ability to use her authority and to influence future at the moment of creating Aisia, so before that she should have set things in a way that reaching the future she envisioned wouldn't need any further intervention on her part, despite that the voice is trying to use Miharu to change the future, a clear proof of things not going her way. Quote:
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The spell that Miharu chanted at the end was also suspicious, that spell was the same that Celia uses to imitate the movements of a swordmaster, comparing the kanjis of those two chants it can be inferred that Miharu's spell is supposed to make the caster imitate the seventh wise God instead of a swordmaster, and that's the suspicious part. Why would the seventh wise God cast a spell that makes Miharu imitate them if they are the one possessing Miharu already? Why not be their usual self instead? That spell really makes one think someone will pretend to be the seventh wise God while inside Miharu's body, and the main suspect of that is the voice haunting Miharu that is shady as hell.
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2023-08-13, 15:41 | Link #4665 | |
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That speculation aside, its been pretty evident that Lina is the only other party that has a vested interest in Rio and the girls as she is planning all this using her future sight. Not to mention what Elle said at the end indicating Rio's teleportation and probably whats going on with Miharu are due to Lina's actions. If the voice was another wise god. Takahisa going to Proxia would be a welcome thing and Reiss coming in to crush Rio's group as well. Seeing as the voice is attempting to guide Miharu, Celia and Rio, its most likely Lina attempting to get the correct outcome she wants without running too foul of the rules herself. Or whatever penalty she gets for disclosing the future directly. |
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2023-08-14, 04:37 | Link #4666 | |
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Sure, Lina defected later and got herself sealed, but her included, none of them thought to consult or report on what they were doing to the other demi gods, nor did they think about the consequences of their actions on mortals or the world. So tbh, I always thought all seven are probably jerks, Lina may be a good jerk, but a jerk nonetheless, although she may have changed while on seal. But when you put it like that, it does make no sense how harsh she is on Miharu, if not for her noble-esque personality that you suppose she has then for how stupid she came out. She just told Miharu to make a bad choice and she makes expectations as if Miharu saw the future with her, then she calls her a foolish girl, bruh, need I remind you that you wise gods started this mess in the first place, try as Miharu can, she can never get to your level of foolishness, Lina dear. The personality part should be something Rio specific cuz Lina's track record doesn't look Miharu like, so from the beginning they are different people, I like to think of it as the dragon king's soul being too strong he always ends up with the same personality. About the possibility of the voice summoning Rio to get rid of his memories of the girls or get him killed. The first shouldn't be because why get rid of his memories when you can get rid of the very people he wants to protect, without Rio there the girls would die, that would put a more assuring end to him than having him forget them - although that could create a being that makes the demons and wise gods seem gentle and kind -, especially if the schemer is a wise god, they can circumvent the rules and for the six wise, Ryuuou = Lina, what if she has a plot to make him remember again. Furthermore, I'm not sure how the rules apply to the golems or to a battle with one's life at stake. The second possibility, I discarded because even Reiss with his golems didn't dare march on Gartulk with Rio there, in the first place, you wouldn't think golems can take down the dragon king, no matter how far from his prime he is. Lastly, I'd say the biggest chapter of this vol was the afterword. Kitayama said that he was trying to show the effects of Rio disappearance on the characters, but he only did that for Takahisa, focusing on him so much, the rest was all blatant filler, aside from the first conversation where they pulled records and Lise spoke about her and Latifa reincarnation (vol21) and Miharu Aki heart to heart (vol 22). Both vol 22 and 23, I was waiting for deep talks between the girls, anything was fine as long it gave us some insight into the girls personalities and their thoughts on anything, their pov on things basically, instead we got them talking about scones and milk, the only girls wise (Miharu/Sastuki's opinion on Takahisa) relatively deep convos are the ones that focus on Takahisa. The good news imo is that the entire afterword sounded like the fanbase in Japan is starting to lose interest over having to follow Takahisa for so long that Kitayama had to come out to appease the readers and assure them that he gets it. When he said he usually writes arcs in 10 vols but who knows if that trend will continue, I thought he had wanted at first to give us 8 vols of Takahisa then 2 of Rio solving problems and by vol 30 the rules would break. But since the fans reception was exceptionally bad (to the point Riv has to tell us not to hate Takahisa,) Kitayama is cutting the arc to 5 vols, so it probably ends in 25 or 26. Heck, Kitayama himself had to say it in the afterword "The wait is over, I'm giving you what you all wanted next vol." So, I'm copeful that rules will break on either vol 25 or 26 and that vol 25 will be a Rio centered one big battle. To double down on the copium, 26 may be a tea party with Rio in it. |
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2023-08-14, 13:51 | Link #4667 | |
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I do wonder how this impacts volumes 25 and 26. We've honestly had zero development with Rio. He has been off page to make room for Takahisa's growth and focus. Rio has been kicking stones looking for clues but outside of lore, he has made zero progress on rules and Celia has spent zero time on research as well to assist him. Volume 25/26 are probably going to speed run, to what Kitayama was probably planning out over 5 volumes. |
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2023-08-14, 15:35 | Link #4668 | ||
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Besides, Lina isn't the only person with bested interest in regards to Rio and the girls, Reis has a clear wish to erase Rio's group and has already made an attempt of making Rio run out of masks by forcing him to fight defensive battles in the form of summonning Celia to that fortress, lastly that voice is clearly trying to alter the future too. The groups trying to affect Rio and his surroundings went that easily from one to three and to that three we have to add confirmed for the time being. Elle's word's aren't a proof of anything either, she hasn't a way to know with certainty who is the caster of spell, she is just so thraumatized Lina she blames on her by default every twist of things she doesn't like. How can you affirm Takahisa's leave and Reis' attack are welcome things for the wise Gods without even the slightest idea about what they want to achieve and how? The voice saw Takahisa's presence at Galarc's castle as a way to push the future away from the path Lina set for it one thousand years ago, for that same reason if Reis' attack is a sign of things not advancing how they wish they would do it wouldn't be a welcome thing. The voice also didn't make any attempt to guide Rio and Celia toward anything. Rio hadn't heard a single voice in his head awake or asleep and is still to see who teleported him and to where. Celia not only listened to a voice different from the one that talked to Miharu but has also received no order or hint towards doing a concrete thing by the voice that spoke to her. In other words, the only one trying to make changes to things is the voice that began to speak to Miharu in volume 22 and a comparation with the only scene where Lina participated until now makes it visible to the eye that she isn't Lina. Quote:
If it is about not consulting and reporting, that seems to be common to all of the transcendentals, Aisia's story of the past really gave the impression that the transcendentals cut all contact with the others after the establishment of the rules. You said the wise Gods didn't think about the consequences but that isn't right either, going by Aisia's story Lina tried to stop the research the moment she knew there would be consequences and there wasn't a single word about the research causing any harm to anyone before future sight warmer Lina something bad would happen if they continued, and despite not heeding Lina's warning the six wise Gods still took precautions, they performed their experiment further away that the furthest confines of the Stralh region several dozens of kilometers underground and away from human settlements, in other words, they got ready to bury the hole between dimensions in case something bad came out of it and took care to not get others involved, their precautions were insufficient but they took them. To be even more fairer with them opening a world between dimensions isn't dangerous per se unless you open the damn gates of hell. You talk about Lina's track record, but what is that track record? We know Lina tried to stop the experiment the moment she knew it was dangerous, that she helped Ryuo save the Yagumo region, that she pushed herself to the verge of death to put an end to the divine war alongside Ryuo, that while in that quasi-death state of hers she sacrificed her divinity and lifespan to revive Ryuo via reincarnation magic so he could save the world again in the future. What of all of this merits being called jerk? What it is so unlike Miharu here? Lina gave herself unneeded responsibilities the same way that Miharu feels needlessly responsible for what Takahisa's mess turned into, she blames herself for Rio having need to kill in order to save her from the slave dealer, for goodness sake she even blamed herself for not having handled Takahisa in a better way when he kidnapped her. How Lina sacrificed herself so at the end of the divine war also doesn't sound at all like the Miharu that is always prioritizing others over herself in the present. There is a difference between everyone diying before or after Rio loses his memories. If Rio loses his memories of everyone before their deaths he would lose his reason to fight, a in case you can't just kill the guy then make it so he doesn't get in the way kind of scenario, and with Rio out of the picture killing eveyone else would be easy, but if everyone dies before Rio loses his memories he wouldn't be in danger of losing his memories while protecting them anymore and would instead turn into an unchained angry avenger that would never again be in the disadvantage of having to fight a defensive batlle. The batlle being against golems shouldn't make a difference either, as long as Reis commands them it would be a battle between Rio and him, something that would consume masks and make Rio lose his memories eventually if dragget out. Both Fenris and Elle clearly seemed convinced they could kill Rio and Sora with the help of their golems, and when Fenris refused he wasn't scared of losing either but of the damage Rio's authority could cause during the battle, but outside the dungeon Reis wouldn't fear anhilation damaging it, and Rio wouldn't just be under the disadvantage of being the defending side, there is the chance of the voice possessing Miharu and backstabbing the unaware Rio or she doing something that forces Rio to show a fatal opening. The japanese fanbase isn't getting any tired of anything either, this book took the number 1 in the daily, weekly and monthly rankings of bookwalker and all of the usual places just like the previous one also did, and just like previous times it seems it will also keep the number 1 of the monthly rankings until the sales of the first day stop counting for the position. I also think you are misunderstanding a few things in that afterword, the author said he wrote so much about Takahisa because he was the one who would be the most impacted by forgetting Rio and because he thought it was the perfect chance for it that he wouldn't have another of again. Yuri didn't say he wrote arcs in ten vols, what he said was that the story has its most important turning points in 10 volumes, in other words the end of the evening party where Rio finally abandons his lonely avenger plan and volume 20 with the activation of the rules, but it was never said anywhere that that meant he had planned to make the rules arc last ten volumes, becuase Yuri also said that the development that began in volume 21 reached its turning point in volume 24 and now the conclusion will come(the the wait is over you mentioned), mentioning the 10 volumes interval can just mean that whatever big event different from the rule breakship Yuri could have planned for volume 30 will happen sooner or later in the future, or that after volume 30 those turning points while come in different intervals, or that unlike the usual 10 volumes this time he just needed 5 to reach that turning point.
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2023-08-14, 17:38 | Link #4669 | ||||||||
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Hahaha, where do I start here. First the seven wise. Nowhere did I say they believed themselves better than their god. See their god set the rules for the demi gods not to meddle too much then left that world, whatever intentions he had, it wasn't the seven wise gods place to interfere in that. Them trying to bring him back is like telling him, their god, that he was wrong to leave and they will correct his mistake. Last time I checked Ryuuou founded a country in yagumo and the six great spirits were guiding the spirit people, enough for the spirit people to still consider them their gods a thousand years later. Funny how you try to defend the seven wise who's literal job was to guide people, not to make a paradise or what not, yet come so strongly on the dragon king and six spirits whereas interacting with people isn't even their responsibility, also the six spirits didn't just watch as the spirits and spirit people were being enslaved by the humans, that was mentioned nowhere in the books and iirc the enslavement of spirits was something the 6 wise propagated in the war after they sealed the great spirits, because spirits are a nice energy source, apparently. Meanwhile, the spirit folk treatment was something that started after the great war, meaning after the great spirits were sealed. Why you simping to the 7 wise bro. Quote:
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I'm not sure I follow about avenger Rio. Defensive battle or not doesn't matter, the moment he attacks anyone with his own personal agenda, he'll forget all about what he was trying to do and who he was trying to avenge. Fenris himself is trying to do just that, kill the girls while Rio is away. So if I wanted to rid me of Rio, I'd kill the girls, dude is sure to rage so hard he attacks me in a fit of wrath, and boom he has no idea what he was doing, then I'd tell him I was his father and- anyway jokes aside. Hmm, but in the end, avenger Rio could also go silver brrr and the same situation would happen. Honestly, the solution should be not to drive such a being to that level of desperation, but if he's gonna kill me either way, I'd rather deal with an agitated him than a calm him. Quote:
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First, this isn't some 5 vols novel, it's a long running series with over 20 vols. Normally if you liked and followed for 20 vols, you wouldn't drop because you didn't fancy the last 2 vols. Second, this novel peaked in hype at vol 20 and 21, that alone could drive it for a while. So, I'm not exactly sure what point you try to make when you say it took first place, you by no means deny my point, people could have very low expectations but still buy the latest vol of their - favorite for 20 vols - novel praying that the arc they hate ends and the arc they like, which should be starting at any time, starts already, doesn't mean they're loving it, lol. Basically, 2 vols is just too short an observation span for any major shift in fan sentiments. Especially since Kitayama said that development and a turning point are coming in vol 25. Last 3 vols or so, author and publisher always laying the bait and enticement to get people to buy the vol, I think you're just ignoring reality. But hey, there is always the possibility that you're right and I'm wrong. Quote:
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Uhh, bruh, a turning point every 10 vols means an arc every 10 vols. For example, from vol 10 up to vol 20 are undeniably, absolutely, without a shred of doubt, the black knight arc. It was such a period in Rio's life. the 4 vols thing is at most the current running plot, those are mini arcs. Come on jagt-kun, you're better than this. Ahh, when you say arc, you mean story arc, huh. Understandable, but when I say arc I mean one way of classifying a number (10 here) of volumes in one bundle. Regarding the rules arc thing. Well, he said that a turning point is every 10 vols, and vol 20 had the turning point of the rules, what would vol 30 have then? Do you expect the rules to be broken by vol 84 or something? But yeah objectively speaking, this is just my opinion against yours. The way I interpreted Kitayama's words is that he wanted rules arc to be vol 20 to 30, but gave up on that because fans aren't happy and shortened it to 5 vols. No I didn't misunderstand him, I used interpretation bro. I'll also add that I interpreted the 10 vols turning points to be equal to eras in Rio's life; 1 -> 10 = orphan/nomad Rio. 10 -> 20 = black knight/noble Rio. 20 -> ? = human-transcendental Rio. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-08-15 at 02:27. |
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2023-08-15, 07:41 | Link #4670 | ||||||
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Sora described Ryuo as a hermit whose only connection to another human was she herself, the legend about him founding a country is also something she made up and that got distorted by one thousand years of oral tradition afterwards, Ryuo could have made like Fenris and seal his own powers so the rules wouldn't affect him during the divine war, but claiming he did better guiding mortals than the six wise Gods with just those few years of work is a bit of a stretch, even more when it can also be said that not keeping an eye in the rest of the transcendentals so they don't do anything that endangers the world is his failure as the world guardian. About the six great spirits, there isn't a single word anywhere about them ever coming out of the wilderness, giving any guidance or help to anyone or about that being the reason why they were whorshipped, there isn't also a single word anywhere about the slavement of spirits being propagated by the six wise Gods or the spirit folks' persecution starting just after war, its the opposite, the spirits and the spirit folk left the Stralh and Yagumo regions due to the human persecution before the war and that's precisely why by the time the war started they were already in the wilderness, you mixed up the timeline for some thing there. The war came after the exodus and not otherwise. Also the spirit enslavement describbed by the spirit folk's registers if I don't remember wrong was for the sake of forcing the spirits to fight, there couldn't be a dead end deader than trying to use as an energy source a creature that needs the magic power it is provided to keep its existence and be able to keep fighting on. Quote:
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2023-08-15, 14:43 | Link #4671 | ||||||
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I didn't make any meaning up, the wise gods don't have to think of it that way, but when they did their deed, it could be interpreted in many ways, what I said is one of them, earth spirit himself called them deluded half humans who couldn't accept reality. That's how he interpreted their actions and it's his right to interpret them in any way that makes sense, which I did too, I believe. Quote:
About Ryuuou, sure, I agree here, I bet dude was busy cooking some spaghetti while wise gods were cooking up some real shit. Although, I think it's a bit unfair to put all the blame on him when his own colleagues made the mess, but it was still his job. Although, now I'm hella confused, if you think that about the dragon king, how come you think the wise gods didn't go against orders and you also think they didn't fail at their job??? You're so objective I'm tearing up. Quote:
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It was clearly stated in the book, vol 21 iirc that the wise gods did their job of guiding the humans for a while and then got fed up with the continuous warring of the damn mortals, so they switched to doing what they do best, making a mess of everything. Regardless of the pure intentions they may or may not have had, the seven wise hated the humans for always warring and their answer to that was starting a literal world war. I mean Lina for one, probably thought that they should bring back their god to handle things and correct what has gone wrong. The others may have felt similarly, doesn't matter tho, they still started world war. You can say whatever you want about how it was unexpected that they opened the gates to one hell of a place, but it was their job as researchers to predict that. You know what they should do after they make that completely sensible prediction? Stop! They should have stopped instead of spamming the world nuke button until it worked. Quote:
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Btw, I like your opinion on the afterword so I have nothing to say against it. |
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2023-08-16, 07:23 | Link #4672 | ||||
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Now let's assume that just as you said Sora would never do something that might make others think Ryuo raised her poorly, surely you would have explanations for all the things Sora did until now that speak poorly of her education. Ryuo used to tell her a lot to eat her veggies but she didn't only stay the same picky eater for their five hundred years together, she also didn't have any problem surviving one thousand years just on grilled meat just from pure sloppiness, at the beginning of the latest book we were also showed how she asked to not be put vegetals in her plate despite how her pickyness could be something that could reflect poorly on her foster father. What about the glares that Sora sends at people once Rio looks away from her or the brusque way in which she adressed everyone at Rio's mansion during her stay, or how unpolite she was with Elle despite her possible noble background? How can Sora do all those things that would talk poorly of who educated her if it is as you say? Now about the difference about Ryuo and the wise Gods, in Ryuo's case we know his orders and job and can say if he broke his orders or failed at his job or not based on that. In the wise God's case we don't know their orders so there is no base on which to mount an accusation of they breaking them, we know their job was to guide humanity but we can't accuse them of not doing that without any knowledge of how much attention people pay to their oracles/divine revelations/whatever. Do I think they failed at their job and break their orders? Yes, I do. Do I have any good basis made of confirmed facts to accuse them of anything? No, I don't, so I don't do it. I can accuse them of throwing the world into chaos, of not having put enough thought into their acts, for that I have a basis, but there isn't one to accuse them of breaking orders or failing at their job. Quote:
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about weak point or limit of the authority.
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2023-08-16, 13:03 | Link #4673 | ||||||
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Wait, wait, wait. Wait a damn moment, you're saying you think ryuo is not the one who killed the demons in Yagumo???? Then who do you suppose did it bro? Spaghettiman? Saitama? Goku? And yet again you doubt Sora, whom by the way we know probably fought the demons in the war a thousand years back, Sora talked about it when she decimated that dragul thing in the dungeon, that she saw it a thousand years back in the war, that it was a weakling slightly stronger than other weaklings. I guess she was lying then too. If not then Sora at least fought demons in Yagumo. Also, people can revere the hero king while not remembering his existence just the same way people can revere the six wise gods and remember they gave them magic whereas not a single soul remembers them in actuality. It's almost like we don't know the lore and the rules that well, crazy, right? Now you keep talking about the rules or what Fernis does to circumvent them, but we don't know everything about the rules nor do we know what Fernis is doing to bypass them. About the dragon king, part of the rules was that if the interests of an organization or individual align with a transcendental to work for the world, then they can cooperate, maybe he made use of that in some way. Ofc, you're gonna reject this, but we don't know what happened, Kitayama can make whatever events he likes in the lore and add whatever rules and all to make it work. Besides, if you wanna talk objectivity, anything that breaths did a better job at guiding mortals than the wise gods, that's just a fact. If the hole they opened connected to a place where the dragon king's level of power was the standard, their entire world would have been dinner by the end of the day they opened their hole on, I guess you'd call that proper guidance, wise god style yo. Then again, I told you, didn't I? We don't have info, we have bits of info that is practically nothing, that's why we have to fill in the gaps, which are the entire lore and entire plot, with so many assumptions, we end up on very different ends of what could have happened. Quote:
The only hints that appear in the story to indicate that Sora lied about anything are the ones you got when you read her parts while smoking crack. I just don't get why you won't let go of this foolish idea. Also, please realize that you've stopped trying to prove that Sora lied and went down the path of proving that Sora is rude. She can be rude and not a liar. You don't have to fight so hard to prove my weakest argument to be wrong. Btw, I wouldn't call the right/left arm of the god of dragons talking down to nobles (lol) rude, she's older than their countries bruh, and whatever the nobles think makes them that great and deserving of respect means nothing to a demi god's familiar. Besides, didn't L appear out of nowhere and start saying whatever she wanted too. Just what do you have against Sora? You just try to find anything to criticize in her. The glares? The glares are what makes her cute, hahahah. Finally Sora is Rio's close aide, she's bound to always be around the main character and actually play important roles, why would the author risk giving her such a negative trait for no reason? You know, it's your opinion, but when you hold into it so strongly without even providing a convincing reason... Do you hate her not eating her veggies that much? lol Quote:
Except they tied no loose knots and screwed over so many beings, karma is a bitch and she's probably in town looking for them a thousand years later. Yeah, never mind, they're a special breed of stupid after all. Now, what oracles are you on about? Was it said somewhere? Did I forget something again? Anyway. You keep blaming Ryuo but, he didn't fail his job you see. Ryuo had the task of protecting the world from worldly threats, not protecting people or killing demons (tho, we don't even know what demons are), he was the sole demi god whose job had nothing to do with what becomes of the people living on that world, all humans could die and the world would still go round. Not to mention, the world itself is still going strong, you know. If the protector of the world failed his job, that means their world became star dust floating in the universe, which it didn't, because chances are, daddy Ryuo cleaned up after everyone before dying in a pool of his blood. Although letting the wise gods cause that much mayhem was a failure on his part, agreed. Now that I think about it, didn't Lina have to convince him to return with her, maybe the existence of the demons itself wasn't a problem from his perspective, as long as they don't attack him and anything on sight. Quote:
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Regardless, so what if they said they would never mistake him, it could be for so many things, doesn't have to mean they fought, in the first place Ryuo was probably a top class war power in that war, chances are anything with eyes that fought in that war wouldn't mistake him. Don't "there isn't a route" me, there is only what Kitayama writes, and Kitayama often writes obvious stuff that turns out wrong just to confuse us. I'll give you that they were acquainted, I wasn't even arguing that, but the part about fighting and winning chances might as well be their hubris, just a few vols ago, Fenris/Reiss was surprised that Rio contended with awakened hero Erica, in vol 14 Reiss also said Rio + Aishia should surpass awakened hero level and he thought Rio alone was awakened hero power, yet was beyond surprised when Rio took down earth beast Erika, he a confused man, for sure. They also might have seen the authority from afar and not tasted it personally or just heard about it. Point is, They could be overestimating themselves or underestimating Rio. Heck, in the first place, Kitayama is probably thinking right now what sort of power to make annihilation into. Ok, let me stop for a moment, what are we even debating here, I got no idea. Lets just stop here, man, at this point I'm just arguing and can't even tell what this was about. We're just falling into an eternal assumption spiral of redundancy. Let Kitayama spin his story for a bit before we jump at each other's throats. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-08-16 at 13:43. |
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2023-08-17, 09:36 | Link #4674 | |||||||
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I didn't say that Ryuo wasn't the one who killed the monsters in the Yagumo region, what I said is that until we can confirm if he did like Fenris or not it is impossible to be sure if he really founded a kingdom while he fought the monsters. That until we know that we can't say if Sora's legend narrates real facts or not. With revere I don't mean the worship that the wise Gods receive, what I meant here is that the rules would make the things described in the legend of Ryuo impossible. If they can't remember Ryuo how can they begin to look up at him as the symbol of the resistance against the monsters and gather under him? If they can't remember Ryuo how could they get disappointed at him when he wasn't there to protect them? If they can't remember him how could they be angry at him at his return from his last battle and demand his abdication? As long as we don't know if Ryuo can do like Fenris Sora's legend can only be full of lies. Ryuo, Sora and Lina certainly were the ones that saved the Yagumo region but they could have done it skipping the kingdom building part. Let's supposse for a moment that the exceptions to the rules applied during the divine war. Why would Lina create the masks then? If it is as you say they could have just charged without any concern into the armies of monsters even without the masks. The wise God's opening the hole between worlds speaks about how good they are or care to be at keeping the world and people safe not about how good they are or not at having people follow their lead, those are two different things. Quote:
Besides, Sora being a higher being isn't an excuse for everything, even more when she can't prove that higher standing and there are plenty of people of high standing like kings, princesses and the very same Rio that always address people with respect regardless of their higher standing. And yes, Elle appeared out of nowhere but even if she wasn't overly formal she wasn't disrespectful either. But wait, wait, wait, yes, the glares are adorable so everything is fine, if you are a cute loli you can be as much of a shitty brat as you want to. How could the crack make me forget even something like that? The author has already given deffects to other characters during the 20 volumes prior to Sora's appearance, even people close to Rio. Celia can't keep her room in order herself, Flora is too honest for her own good, Charlotte is a little devil that enjoys messing with people, etc... it is matter of giving a character its own identity as he has done many times before while letting it at a forgivebable level because thery are the heroines after all. Quote:
And I don't blame Ryuo for what he did, but it is undenieable that not keeping an eye on the other transcendentals is also a failure on his part and that being part of a plan to break the rules is a blatant violation of orders regardless of his good intentions, the world not being stardust yet only means that his failure still didn't reach catastrophic levels but the failure is there, he might have died in a pool of his own blood to clean the others' mess but he didn't eliminate the threat. That's why if people have even the slightest intention of being fair we can't just blame one side for failing their jobs or breaking orders. This isn't about the wise Gods not screwing up but about them not being the only ones that screw up and broke their orders. Quote:
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2023-08-17, 17:36 | Link #4675 | |
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About Rio power levels, I guess J novel butchered the part then, cuz they have it as Fenris saying that Rio alone is awakened hero level, while the two together are beyond that. "You take Sora's words that Ryuuou is a hermit that interacted with nobody at face value, but you call her a liar faster than a hot potato when she said he founded a country. Now that's just you cherry picking whatever you want from the story. Also where did you get the idea that Sora lies in the first place, very far fetched, afaict, she seems like a fairly objective individual, she thinks the wise gods are a pile of garbage, but she, on multiple occasions admitted that their brains are the real deal. She's true to her feelings but admits the reality as she sees it, that's the Sora we've been shown. Also she told Rio that she's the one who propagated the legend of Ryuuou, she worships her master, so if there were any lies in her words, she would have told Rio about them. I'll take the planetary jump in logic that Sora lied for no meaning, but she wouldn't lie to Rio. Besides, you know she was brought up by the dragon king, what was the dude teaching her to become such a liar, heck, Sora would never lie if only so that nobody would say that Ryuuou brought her up wrong, just what the heck have you been reading, man." That's what I wrote about the improbability of Sora being a liar. What you pulled out and started arguing about was the last sentence in the paragraph. That's all I said, whether she is rude or not has little to no consequence on whether she is a liar or not, and yes she is rude. Ok, Sora is rude, so what? The correlation between her being rude and her being a potential liar is a big fat zero my friend. All I told you was, "if you wanna argue that Sora is a liar, then maybe you don't wanna spend your time trying to prove that Sora is rude." Besides, can you not see that you have a very strong bias against Sora as a character? Btw, I most certainly was not trying to invalidate your argument by making jokes about them, trust me, I just couldn't help but make them bad jokes, the troll blood in me just itches man. Honestly, I feel offended, I'll have you know I made much more fun of you, but thought it was unacceptable to make so much fun of my good friend, and edited most of it out. If you didn't like the crack part then I'm sorry about it, I'll edit it out if you want. You most certainly were smoking no crack, it was probably copium. Regardless, I now understand where you're coming from when you say Sora is lying about the legend of Ryuou, still think that's a massive jump in logic tho, but at least I get you logic, I'd say it was Kitayama shooting himself in the foot, he probably didn't have the details for the deep plot hammered in at vol 3 and he wrote the legend in a way that now makes little to no sense, how he explains it remains to be seen, but I highly doubt he will take a route that makes Sora out to be a liar. The wise gods. I half disagree that ascertaining how good they did their job of guiding people boils down to how much the people followed them, since that assumes that the wise gods knew what they were doing when they guided people. My point is that we are not privy to the details of what is specifically meant by guiding and if the wise gods had to follow some set goal in their guidance or could they guide to the direction they wanted. I suppose you are right, we don't know enough about them to say they failed. My point is tho: we may not know what their duties entailed, but we know that they did the most extreme action that could be taken, they executed a plan that led directly to potential world destruction, you can rest assured that whatever they were tasked to do, it absolutely included not destroying the world, something they happily drove the world towards, regardless of apparent intents. The only way I would find them absolvable is if they had planned everything all along, as I said a post ago, everything that happened and all results including the current geopolitical composition of Strahl and the humans' current state was their plan. But we have already established that you don't agree with this view. I guess we at least agree on disagreeing. Hey, I was joking when I said the glares make her cute, ok. And again, I'm sorry about the crack. I would never jagt, I would never. About her being rude, I wouldn't say it's about it being excusable or not, if you wanna talk rudeness, then I believe all royalty are hella rude all the time, just cuz they were born with a country in their bank accounts, who do they think they are, Sora is really cute and lovely compared to that. And if humans wanna have their own systems where they decide who is great and gets to tell everybody when to shut up and when to stop looking at the ground, then the dragon king's familiar has no obligation to follow something like that, I'm not saying she has good manners, she certainly could get a bit respectful, but on her rules, she should learn her own respect, not the humans' rules and their respect. It doesn't matter whether they know what she is or not, the entire human race is probably alive thanks to her master, that should mean something. Also she's really strong, the weak should fear the strong (insert meme). Finally, Celia being messy or Flora being honest to a fault is nothing compared to Sora lying to the main character when he is in serious need of lore drops and history lessons. Rio is gonna dissect whatever info he gets and make conclusions, so she lying to him is a serious hindrance and potential danger. Not to mention, if she did it now, she's gonna do it again, so how much danger does she pose to Rio. There is just no way Kita would give her such a trait. It's not that the author is giving her a bad side to freshen out her character, it's that you're so biased against Sora, you hate her so much you just put a liar sticker on her all on your own. Rio's part stems from his personality, and while I really love his really humble, but if you mess with him then you fuck around you find out demeanor, I also sorta wanna see him being more brazen as the dragon king. To be clear, I don't wanna see an arrogant Rio, that would kill this fantastic character's charm. More like a Rio that calmly and respectfully looks everyone in the eye as an equal, regardless of their rank in human society. It's just my wishful thinking, pay it no mind. The spirits folks. Again yours is a reasonable take, but I considered the blessing as guidance because if you give a bunch of races that much boost in power that will continue through the generations, you've practically changed all the options they could take, the paths they could go down on, just giving them that much power should have changed the way they look at so many things, I mean even now, they're living in the middle of the wilderness, in hiding thanks to the spirit arts they're so good at, had the six never blessed them, at least the spirit folks couldn't spend the last 1000 years chilling in the wilderness. Hence why I considered it proper guidance. But then again, did we even have the exact details of what the blessing entails? The earth spirit was in no normal state of mind for us to make any proper judgment. Nonetheless, you may have a point. That remains to be seen. The rules and why create the masks. I don't know, it could be that when very special certain rare conditions are met in a scenario where divine rule 42 is applicable, the demi gods can fight without a worry, and that's what the seeds of ruin were used for. Whatever the heck I wrote, can you prove me wrong, we don't know. That's why I said, we should let Kitayama write the story first before we open fire on each other. I mean, I'm enjoying this, (hopefully you are too), so I'm more than happy to keep you company, but we're not gonna make any progress running in circles or change anything Kita is writing. |
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2023-08-17, 18:19 | Link #4676 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Spain
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2023-08-18, 12:52 | Link #4677 |
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Join Date: Nov 2019
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I guess we just signed our Versailles treaty then.
You're right, it makes no sense that Rio didn't ask Sora about every piece of info she has, it just makes no sense. Forget the war, he didn't even ask her obvious questions about himself like if she knows how he used his authority before or if she knew if it had weaknesses. Not even questions about Lina, even though they went looking for clues Lina left, he didn't even try to get an image of what sort of personality Lina had. Kitayama could always add a flashback, but we've already seen a simple info desynchronization when Rio didn't even know that Sora fought draguls in the war. Btw, I wonder where everyone went, ah, they probably didn't feel like writing a magazine's worth of words in a few days, hahaha. |
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fantasy, harem, isekai |
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