2004-12-13, 22:37 | Link #41 | |
Matchstick Kid
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 41
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2004-12-13, 22:38 | Link #42 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Damn, well I was just sort of going off the whole idea that, at least according to certain reliable characters, no one seems to be able to grab the rasengan. Jiraya even called a screw up in comparison to his teammastes is a genius compared to Neji. He graaduated at 6 or 7 and has had a really long, long long time to work on it. The fourth, everyone agrees is the man, and while I think Neji is the man, big N is no where near the man status of the fourth. Granted that logic is a little fuzzy when held up to the light but I hope it is taken in context of your own acknowledgements of the manness of the fourth.
On a more serious note it is entirely possible that Jiraya was graaduated early because of the wars, so you could be entirely right. However there is a feeling that I get that this abilty is not one that can be aquired with any ease by anybody, and naruto has a unique and almost supernatural adavantage in learning it. |
2004-12-13, 23:21 | Link #43 | |
Dreaming of you.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-13, 23:33 | Link #45 |
無謀
Join Date: Sep 2004
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People who we are never going to see doing a rasengan: Neji, Sasuke
Reason why they wont be doing it: not enough chakura. If it was anything else they could do it. But they cannot. "control" is not an issue for them. And theyve seen it done (with sharigan running no less - dont spout that nonsense about only being able to copy hand seals, he copied lee's taijutu speed with it already) so its not like they need a teacher. Maybe they just dont want to because its not their style? Well, it its supposedly so much chakura cheaper than Chidori, you'd expect that sasuke would have already given it up for the lower cost and higher damage output. But he hasnt, because its not an option for him. It'd be interesting to see what a full power rasengan would do when directly opposed by kaiten. I think it is probably one of the few attacks that could penetrate it. |
2004-12-13, 23:39 | Link #46 | |
無謀
Join Date: Sep 2004
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The only time they show him directly requesting chakura from the kyuubi is when he has to do a massive summon, is completed tapped out, or wants to fight with kyuubi taijutu style. You dont really think a perfectly ordinary 12 year old genin should be able to make 400 kage bunshin all at once? Hes highly abnormal. (they havent even shown sasuke use one kage bunshin yet, much less 400) He takes 64 death touches from Neji, nerve and muscle severing attacks from Kabuto, thens gets up for more. |
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2004-12-13, 23:43 | Link #47 | |
Dreaming of you.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-14, 00:59 | Link #50 |
Matchstick Kid
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 41
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Besides, Neji seems to be able to form and control this chakra at any time. Naruto MUST BE provoked somehow. He can only summon the frog boss when Sakura was in trouble and he was only able to do Rasengan good enough was when he had to protect Tsunade. Now he did perform it well when he fought Aoi and broke the sword so I guess that could refute my statement but in other cases Naruto usually fails at summoning or doing other jutsus well unless hes provoked to really do it where as Neji can have that "I am better than you and I barely have to try attitude" and produce Kaiten after Kaiten. Yes Naruto has a very big advantage by having Kyubi but if Jiraiya took Neji aside and were to teach him the fundamentals of Rasengan then Neji has the tools to learn it except for the regeneration of Kyubi. Other than that Neji has very good chance of learning it.
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2004-12-14, 01:18 | Link #51 | |
Ninja Emperor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 39
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2004-12-14, 02:18 | Link #52 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Remember, Naruto has two chakras, and even the smaller of the two (his natural blue chakra) exists in much greater supply than any other genin's. (Normal chakra = stamina; Naruto's stamina > anyone else's)
A completely formed rasengan requires 100% of Naruto's available non-Kyuubi chakra (third stage of Naruto's rasengan training). Therefore, rasengan almost certainly uses more chakra than any other jutsu we've seen a genin perform, including chidori (possibly excluding Gaara's transformation). It follows then that if rasengan requires 100% of Naruto's current chakra, which exists in greater supply than any other genin's, no other genin is currently capable of performing a rasengan. (Well, maybe Gaara could do it, but why would he ever need too?) |
2004-12-14, 02:39 | Link #53 | |
Cool as a Cucumber
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
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Besides, Jirayia never talked about a limit of times Naruto could perform the rasengan. Whereas Kakashi was really keen on teaching Sasuke to NOT overdo the Chidori. Which leads me to believe that Chidori takes up more Chakra.
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2004-12-14, 02:43 | Link #54 | |
Enraged elf lover
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3 things naruto has over every one else in the series... 1. A naturaly large chakra as big as a junins eventualy near a sanin he can use just his chakra to summon boss frog. And his rasengan are all his. 2. This is due to nine tales fox being confined in him linked to his chakra. The link causes him to heal overnight and his chakra regen very quickly faster than any one else. 3. If he were to get pissed enough and his life was threatened he can request a boost from kyuubi and ever since he left the hidden village of the mist he hasnt used kyuubi...And if you watch the opening it is going to get upgraded sometime soon to the point he grows fangs and fox eyes like he had before when the fox just took control of him... of course all my knowlege on the subjects comes from the anime... Last edited by Lunas; 2004-12-14 at 02:54. |
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2004-12-14, 02:49 | Link #55 | |
Dreaming of you.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Now assuming that the amount of power Naruto used to thrash Kabuto was the same amount he used to destroy the rubberball, then it's pretty obvious to me that the rasengan doesnt use a set amount of chakra all the time. Given that the amount of power Jiraiya used in the rasengan he created while teaching Naruto the third step, was more than that of Naruto's when he destroyed the rubberball. With that, I think that someone given the same training as Naruto but without the chakra capacity of his, can create a rasengan, but its power will pale in comparison to his at its maximum, and that the rasengan definitely varies in power depending on the user. |
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2004-12-14, 03:27 | Link #56 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Episode 92: Naruto, training so as to win his bet with Tsunade, has just hit a dead tree for the umpteenth time with a failed rasengan and thinks back to the guidance Jiraiya has given him-
Naruto: "Over and over in my head I know it! But still... I cannot extract 100% of my power properly." -AH's translation- I imagine the non-lethal rasengan Jiraiya used was basicaly performed the same way as one of Naruto's failed rasengan. |
2004-12-14, 03:46 | Link #57 | |
Dreaming of you.
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2004-12-14, 05:25 | Link #58 | |
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2004-12-14, 05:32 | Link #59 |
Fansubber Emeritus
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You know ...
Given that Neji had the raw chakra capacity for it, I think he could master rasengan. He's certainly got the insight, he may have the control (we haven't really seen much instance of chakra control in him though -- we don't know if that tenketsu poke is based on just ultra-fine taijutsu or if it's based on ultra-fine chakra control instead). The question is .... why the hell would he? Yeah, Rasengan is devestatingly powerful. It's also extremely close range, and only useful in a VERY situational perspective. Naruto overuses it, just like he overuses kagebunshin no jutsu. He has such a small vocabulary of techniques to work with that he relies on the few he has to an obscene level. Not only that, but it complements his attributes and fighting style extremely well. Rasengan would NOT complement Neji, nor Sasuke, nor Kakashi. Any of them could probably learn the move, given chakra capacity, time to learn the move, and assuming they already have the specialized control that Naruto worked so hard for. But, to put it in RPG terms, it's like giving a paladin a dagger, or a black mage a great maul. Sure, the black mage can swing the damned hammer, but he'll never be great at it, and it'll never be as useful to them as having a weapon that complements his innate abilities. Neji's Byakugan is SUCH a dominant asset of his, and SO irreplaceable in his arsenal, that his entire style -- his ninjutsu, his genjutsu, his taijutsu -- entirely revolves around using or complementing it. Just like sharingan. Sharingan is well-served by chidori (it's focused, it's devestating, it's an extremely precise tool). It's just as well served by the numerous less-intensive techniques that its users learn. Think of Kakashi, the man of a thousand techniques. He is so formidable because not only does he have a large technique vocabulary, but he knows it so intimately that he can instantly pick just the right technique for the situation, the environment, and the enemy he's fighting. Neji is best served by focusing on enhancing what he has over building what he doesn't. By specializing, he can make his abilities more useful than anyone else's for his specific role (as observation, scouting, defense, to a lesser extent offense). If he DOESN'T go for enhancing what he has, he'll end up a "jack of all trades" -- which of course is synonymous with being "a master of none". By allowing himself to lose out in one area, he gains an enormous advantage in another, and can then rely on the team to cover his weaknesses. Or he can be mediocre at everything, waste his gifts, and be completely useless to anyone and stay a genin forever. Maybe the best analogy would be a lefty deciding that while they can write beautifully with their left hand, they would rather be writing with their right foot, and teaching themselves to do so. |
2004-12-14, 05:45 | Link #60 | |
Dreaming of you.
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Also, if you read the latest chapters you can see how nice guys can turn out to be the most ruthless of murderers. In this instance, I think its more likely that Jiraiya didnt use the amount of power in the rasengan he created like he did during Naruto's training, because he's a nice guy. |
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