2009-07-17, 19:53 | Link #81 | |||
Fax Caelestis
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Kagoshima's Jindai.
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2009-07-17, 21:43 | Link #82 | |
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San-An-Kou (3 concealed pungs or kans) 2 han San-Kan-Tsu (3 kans) 2 han Toi-Toi (all pung/kan) 2 han Tan-Yao (all simples) 1 han Rin-Shan 1 han That makes 8 han, which is enough for a Baiman. |
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2009-07-18, 10:08 | Link #83 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Okay, I'm confused about two things.
1.) Looking at Saki's initial hand in c. 51, if she were to go for a 13 orphans hand like some are speculating, wouldn't it be painfully obvious that she was going for that hand after the 7th round of discards? (Just dumping that pon of 2 pins alone would be highly suspicious.) She would have to dump the 2, 2, 2, 3, 5 of pins, the 3 sou and the 4 man. 怪しい! (Of course, you can't see her discards in the manga... bah!) 2.) Why would calling ron on the head of the 13 orphans change it from a single yakuman into a double yakuman? I've been looking through my books, and I can't see anything about that. (Granted, my books are pretty basic stuff.) Can someone explain how that works? I'm still new to scoring. |
2009-07-18, 10:39 | Link #84 | |
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2. Kokushi musou is generally single yakuman, but if you have each of honor tiles and terminal tiles and are waiting for any of the 13 you have in your hand (13 way wait) then it's considered double yakuman, regardless of you getting it with ron or drawing from the wall and regardless of which tile you get to complete your hand. Last edited by emauser; 2009-07-18 at 10:40. Reason: adding sth. |
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2009-07-18, 11:00 | Link #85 |
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Ahh, emauser was faster
It will be obvious for players (and for readers too, so it was ommited ) and imho it was reason for that Koromo's chill or how to call hers black aura. But if Saki really has 13-side wait on Kokushi Musou she doesn't exactly need Koromo to discard that 1 of Dots, if she had enough luck to draw 7 needed tiles in 7 round, she will draw 8th to form pair and win with tsumo double yakuman (Saki +64k, Koromo -16k, Kana -16k, Yumi -32k). Only hinderance can be some call to Koromo's discard from Yumi. Edit: I'm beginner too, so I hope I didn't some stupid error above
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2009-07-18, 14:47 | Link #86 |
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Thanks for the answers. Now I have more questions. (Since I'm usually not dealing with hands like these. lol.)
If 13 orphans is a yakuman worth 32,000 points anyway, if Saki rons on Koromo's 1-pin, even if there's no double-yakuman rule, she'll still beat Koromo by 1500 points, right? (Or am I missing something again?) Koromo: 168,200 Saki: 105,700 If Saki takes 32,000 from Koromo: Koromo: 136,200 Saki: 137,700 I'm asking because after looking around a bit, I saw a blog post by some pro mahjong players who keep a blog/podcast (in English no less!), and they were discussing all of the various rule variations. Double yakuman as an optional rule didn't seem to be very popular in Japan ATM. (Especially in the pro leagues.) It's more popular as part of the European rules. Then again, they're playing the tournament in Saki with akadora... so who knows what the rules are. I guess it's time to find an illustration somewhere of the rules held conveniently in someone's hand. |
2009-07-18, 14:57 | Link #87 | |||
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2009-07-18, 15:26 | Link #88 |
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Oh sure. Here you go:
http://www.reachmahjong.com/home/ind...=273&Itemid=36 Thanks for the answers. I feel more enlightened now. My groundless speculation is that Saki will just win with a plain Yakuman, just because it's more dramatic. I like the 13 orphans angle, though. In exchange, Koromo gets a new mahjong playtoy. Saki telling her that playing mahjong with her is fun stunned her, I think. lol. Either way, it won't be the last we see of Koromo. |
2009-07-18, 15:56 | Link #89 |
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These Kokushi Musou speculations are based only on limited informations what we have (initial hand and number of discards). Off course chance it's way off is high, but right now it match too perfrectly, even that Koromo's One of Dots match the scheme . As you said Saki's discards should be too obvious to good players and Koromo really don't need to play offensively, so I'll be surprised if she discards it, but maybe Saki's befriending speech throwed her away
But off course I'm bit biased because I really want to finish this match as fast as possible, it became bit boring after almost 3/4 year and story need to move forward About double yakuman rules, I red somewhere (can't find it right now between my bookmarks ) that it's allowed by default, but of course we have no idea what changes they did to rules it anime.
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2009-07-18, 18:20 | Link #90 |
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I did small research and tried to count number of tiles Saki need to change for all yakumans:
Code:
Kokushi Musou (13 Orphans) .............. 7 tiles Chuuren Poutou (The Nine Gates) ......... 9 tiles Suu An Kou (Four concealed triplets) .... 6 tiles Dai San Gen (Big three dragons) ......... 8 tiles Shou-suushi (Four Little Winds) ......... 9 tiles Dai-suushi (Four Big Winds) ............. Not possible Ryuu-iisou (All Green) .................. 11 tiles Suu Kantsu (Four Kans) .................. 7 tiles (not usable imho) Tsu-iisou (All honors) .................. 10 tiles Chinroutou (All Terminals) .............. 10 tiles
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2009-07-19, 01:08 | Link #91 |
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I have question about Suu Kantsu. I found that if four Kans are declared by two or more players than the hand ends in a draw. Doesn't that mean that a single player can declare four Kans without consequences? Or am I mistaken?
Last edited by emauser; 2009-07-19 at 01:08. Reason: grammar check |
2009-07-19, 01:14 | Link #92 |
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Yes, that's correct. As long as the 4 kan's are declared by a single player the hand doesn't end in an abortive draw.
@Bambi: That's assuming she didn't made any calls for the potentially open Yakuman's, which just throws a wrench into the equation
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2009-07-19, 15:09 | Link #93 | |
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I briefly checked chapter again and any calls looks unlikely, at least from Kana or Koromo discards ...... Another question about Kan/Dead wall: I know that more than 4 kans isn't possible because you run out of Dora indicators and Kan replacemenet tiles, but somewhere I read that dead wall is replenished from the end of normal wall (it contadict that no more 4 kans reasoning). But I found it only on one place and in Saki they don't do it, so i'm now currious if it's complete nonsense or if it's really present in some rule sets?
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2009-07-20, 01:46 | Link #94 | |
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Edit: Here's the image from the manga. No idea why it isn't showing up. It's in volume 5. Link: http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/20671/67
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Last edited by tjalorak; 2009-07-20 at 04:53. |
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2009-07-20, 04:03 | Link #95 | |
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Btw what chapter in manga it was, your image is gone? Looks like I missed it.
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2009-07-20, 17:34 | Link #96 |
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As mentioned in the anime thread, is anyone else getting the Yugioh vibe while reading the manga? I feel like I am watching the mahjong version of Yugi vs Pegasus battle. With Koromo destroying the lights and everything after Saki starts to get back in the groove, it reminds me of how Pegasus decides to take the battle into the "SHADOW REALM" when Yugi starts switching with Yami-Yugi repeatedly throughout the battle.
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2009-07-23, 04:46 | Link #98 | |
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50/50 from my point of view, it really depends how much she is intimidated by Saki. If she plays defensively and safe she will keep it, but otoh she is very self-confident so maybe she will try to finish game by win ....
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2009-07-26, 21:09 | Link #99 | |
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50-50 is good gamble. I will put 10 USD on the possibility she is not going to throw that 1 away:P. |
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2009-07-27, 20:36 | Link #100 |
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This might not be the last round if Yumi ends up winning this one as East. Of course it won't matter for the point balance between Saki and Koromo unless she ends up getting a direct hit on one of them.
Since we learned in the anime that there are no double yakuman, doesn't that mean that it's impossible for Kana to win anymore no matter what? The best she could do is a normal yakuman hit on Koromo, but that won't be enough to win. Did she discard her tsumo Yakuman, because she's just hoping for a direct hit on Koromo as revenge even though she has no chance of winning? Or perhaps she doesn't want to end the final round yet, since it would be like giving Koromo a victory. Afterall, it was Saki who saved her from death's door. |
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mahjong, nopan, seinen, sport, yuri |
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