Fate/Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Paranoid Android]

I wonder what Kariya and Berserker can even do now. They're the weakest pair atm. I hope there's something major in store. Gonna be so sad when it's just three kings (If berserker's next on the death list) for the grail. I want all three of them to win ((((

[White Manju Bun]

Heh Triple R needs to update his sig

Ok this is a really dumb question....Ive totally forgotten why/how Kirei lost Assassin as his servant Guess for me there was too much of a gap btwn s1 and s2.

Decent epi, I liked Saber's reaction to the motorcycle. The talking btwn Gil and Kirei was better but uguu....seriously it seems half the anime has been that. I feel bad for Rin but this explains a lot for later.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Ok this is a really dumb question....Ive totally forgotten why/how Kirei lost Assassin as his servant Guess for me there was too much of a gap btwn s1 and s2.

Assassin spilled the wine, so Rider spilled their blood.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Ok this is a really dumb question....Ive totally forgotten why/how Kirei lost Assassin as his servant Guess for me there was too much of a gap btwn s1 and s2.

Iskander killed them all during the King's meeting. And yes, Tokiomi ordered Kirei to send them all.

[edit]

Ninja'd, and with a more witty line to boot...

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

I wonder what Kariya and Berserker can even do now. They're the weakest pair atm. I hope there's something major in store.

If we look at the Holy Grail War like a tournament, then, taking into consideration all the foreshadowing and build up thus far, it seems obvious that the semi-finals would be Saber vs Berserker and Archer vs Rider, but, from what we've seen thus far, Urobuchi is rarely one for neatly dividing the participants into one on one duels, so there's likely something major in store indeed. Berserker may be gunning to have another go at Saber, but it's probably Kirei that Kariya will have to deal with from now on, having become the target of his interest and one of his main sources of entertainment.

So we can probably expect some major confrontation between the remaining teams, which is bound to be all the more interesting now that the strongest and most wicked team of Kirei and Gilgamesh has been formed... But, of course, that will have to wait until two weeks from now, since next week is almost definitely going to consist entirely of what appears to be Kiritsugu's backstory. Which is something I'm itching to see as well, only the timing is at the same time a little frustrating, now that the final and likely most exciting phase of the war was about to begin.

Either way, I've got little worries about the remaining participants having an adequate and satisfying role. Poor Assassin aside, every character that's been eliminated thus far has had a very fitting and enjoyable sendoff.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by GDB

Assassin spilled the wine, so Rider spilled their blood.

Originally Posted by Haak

Iskander killed them all during the King's meeting. And yes, Tokiomi ordered Kirei to send them all.

[edit]

Ninja'd, and with a more witty line to boot...

Ohhhh ok I remember now, Id forgotten that Tokiomi had given that order. Thanks guys.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Ohhhh ok I remember now, Id forgotten that Tokiomi had given that order. Thanks guys.

Well, to be fair, they only actually showed said order in the Uncut/BD version of the episode, so it's understandable that those who didn't watch it wouldn't remember.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Well, to be fair, they only actually showed said order in the Uncut/BD version of the episode, so it's understandable that those who didn't watch it wouldn't remember.

Well that even makes more sense as too why I didnt remember it initially

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kokukirin

For me F/Z's pace is about right. There is room to cut some contents out (Rin's adventure should be cut to half an episode really), but doing so may come with a cost of not developing the characters as described in the novel. Let's not forget that the main purpose of F/Z is to tell the story of Kiritsugu, Kotomine, and to a lesser extent, Gilgamesh and Saber. If the anime does not spend the time to let them interact, it would defeat the purpose of F/Z.

Rin's episode was there to develop an emotional tie to her because of what happens later, i.e. Tokiomi dying. Plus, it was a fun episode.

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

I wonder what Kariya and Berserker can even do now. They're the weakest pair atm. I hope there's something major in store. Gonna be so sad when it's just three kings (If berserker's next on the death list) for the grail. I want all three of them to win ((((

Berserker is very strong though. I would say he makes up for Kariya's weakness. And I think Rider is the next one to go... things are only going to get worse.

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Well that even makes more sense as too why I didnt remember it initially

Can't remember something you never saw.

More proof that the BDs are essential to watch.

[erneiz_hyde]

So, now Saber, Rider, Archer, and Berserker remains.

Because I'm so bored right now, let's speculate on the servants's abilities (ignoring thei master's), based on what has been shown so far:
Berserker has the ability to turn every weapon he touched to his NP. And he has the ungodly skills to wield them to boot. This is a natural counter for Archer's Gate of Babylon because Berserker can turn Archer's own weapon against him, so I suspect that Berserker has a fairly high chance in offing Archer.

However, Berserker will not do as good when fighting Rider, because of IH. If Berserker got in IH without preparing some weapons beforehand, he'll have to steal one from one of the soldiers there, and it's no easy task to do barehanded (and considering the soldiers are all on the level of Heroic Spirits). But, Archer's Gate of Babylon is the perfect counter for IH, because he can shoot them all simultaneously and the soldiers could do little about it, and because Archer has virtually unlimited supply of weapons to throw with.

So it's a rock-scissors-paper game (Berserker-Archer-Rider) for the three of them. Saber could potentially kill any one of them with her Excalibur, and she possesses the best hand-to-hand fighting skills, Berserker aside. None of the other three has obvious advantages against Saber like those three have against each other.

Now let's see what happens when we add the Masters to the equation. Kiritsugu would probably make a similar analysis to the one I just made and order Saber to stand by and let the other three kill themselves first, and also to recover energy used in that Excalibur. Waver would probably hesitate to attack Saber because of their past cooperation, so he might aim for the other two: Berserker or Archer. Kirei probably won't go after Kariya personally and will look for a one-on-one showdown with Kiritsugu. Maybe he would stage a scene so Rider and Berserker fight each other, then move in to kill the victor. Kariya, well, he's mad, and probably will dance around as Kirei wanted him to. The way the tension builds up until now, the last battle just has to be between Kirei and Kiritsugu.

So, I think the next one to die might be Rider or Berserker. But, considering Rider already has more character development than Berserker, he might go out first. Unless, the few next episode focus on expanding Berserker. Besides, if Waver, the prodigy eager on proving himself, can make it into the last three only to fail, that would make for a very Gen-ish tragedy

Also, pay no attention to this post, I'm just blabbering non-sense out of boredom

[blue_sora]

Episode 18 preview screenshots:

Spoiler for KERRY:

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by blue_sora

Episode 18 preview screenshots:

Spoiler for KERRY:

Kiritsugu laughing? This should be interestin
Any guesses on the women in the last screen shot.

[Paranoid Android]

Hard to speculate and guess when I know what happens X'(

On-to pretending to speculate. I think finale is Saber vs Archer. Archer's Ea hasn't been shown or used. He mentioned it in episode 2 saying he didn't believe anyone is worthy of dying by his Ea until he saw Saber's noble phantasm and true identity. That foreshadowing definitely means someone's gonna get owned by Ea and/or He will be facing Saber and using it.

I think he will use it on either Saber or Rider. Berserker will never be worthy of Ea in Gilgamesh's eyes.

I think next to go is Berserker. TBH I want to see Iskander in the finale (biased fan-dom) vs Gilgamesh. Gate of Babylon vs Army of the King! You could say I'm tired of Arturia :X

[DragoZERO]

Can anyone translate these??

Spoiler for Madoka Magica:

[Haak]

You're best off asking in this thread.

[DragoZERO]

Thank you sir.

[SJCrew]

Kirei was never a very compelling villain. In Fate/Stay Night, it was always foreshadowed that he was going to stab someone in the back through his constant smirking, morally ambiguous dialogue, and the fact that every other character in the series is vocal about distrusting him. In Fate/Zero, it's the same deal, sans evil smirking. Overall, way too much foreshadowing, and the episode dragged on and on with empty dialogue scenes. But at least I got to see Saber on a motorcycle.

4/10

[Methuselah]

I for one am glad to see Tokiomi in awe as he dies. He deserved it - after donating his daughter to a rapist and remain impossibily oblivious to it while being to egocentric in his magehood. Die whore.

[jeroz]

Originally Posted by Eragon

Kiritsugu laughing? This should be interestin
Any guesses on the women in the last screen shot.

Watch the PV again, I think she made an appearance

but fk yes, Beach Episode!! Shota Kiritsugu fanservice incoming

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by blue_sora

Episode 18 preview screenshots:

Spoiler for KERRY:

Oh my goodness I'm going to enjoy every second of dat shota Kiritsugu before it all goes to hell (which, being F/Z, probably means within the first few minutes. ).