Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[DevilHighDxD]

When Inaho can single handed win this war then you call him a stu.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

When Inaho can single handed win this war then you call him a stu.

Their gonna label him that no matter what. Because he doesn't fit into their standards of whats normal.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

When Inaho can single handed win this war then you call him a stu.

But he has been doing that the whole time. Well, ok not the war, but he has been winning all the battle pretty much by himself.

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Their gonna label him that no matter what. Because he doesn't fit into their standards of whats normal.

Huh? How is Inaho in any sense normal?

[Raziel1991]

^^^ That is not true, he only won by himself against Vlad (second fight) and against the guy in the ice kat (what was his name again?). Against everyone else he needed the help of others to execute his tactics.

[SPARTAN 119]

Originally Posted by Raziel1991

^^^ That is not true, he only won by himself against Vlad (second fight) and against the guy in the ice kat (what was his name again?). Against everyone else he needed the help of others to execute his tactics.

I think the ice Kat was called Yaocym or something weird like that. Also, you have a point, some (particularly Femieanne) he had a lot of help:

Trillram: Inaho was assisted by Inko, Nina, and Calm (Kataphrakt support), as well as Rayet (driver), and Asseylum (smoke grenade launcher)

First Vlad fight: Rayet (informed him about its weaknesses), Inko, Nina, Calm (set up trap with the crane)

Femieanne: Inko, several other UFE Kat pilots, Wadatsumi gun crews (provided fire support in shooting down rocket fists), Slaine (shot down rocket fists, even if Inaho did shoot him down later), Magdbaredge and rest of Deucalion bridge crew (rammed Hellas), Rayet (finished off Femieanne)

Saazbaum (first fight): Yuki and Inko (Kataphrakt support)

Maazurek: Deucalion gun crews (fired on coordinates designated by Inaho- Inaho did not snipe the Kat from orbit from what I saw in the episode), Marito and surviving UFE Kats (took Maazurek prisoner).

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

But he has been doing that the whole time. Well, ok not the war, but he has been winning all the battle pretty much by himself.

Huh? How is Inaho in any sense normal?

You are watching anime and complaining about a main character not being normal. Step back for a moment and think about the silliness of that outlook.

I will take a Gary Stu character anyday of the week over a Shinn or Shinji. However Inaho is not a Gary Stu. I also find it funny that people here think they know Japanese audiences' tastes better than the Japanese writers and producers that actually live there and work in that industry. In some cases, since before you were alive.

Even I was watching anime about 5 years before you were even born, and dont expect reality when watching anime.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Szadek

The bad writing in this show never cease to amaz me.
Looks like the prison and the base weren't protected in the slightest.
Was it even nessary to break that guy out of prison?
Can't he just talk to his boss about instead facing the risk of an execution for high treason?
Inoha has a really bad habit of keeping live saving information to himself.

You might be right, but in any event, I find this to be one of the most interesting things Inaho has done. It is a significant personal risk for him, and it's different from his usual combatant/tactician role.

My guess is that if he didn't involve Magbaredge in this, it's because he didn't want her (and/or the ship's crew as a whole) to take on any risk/liability due to his plot. By doing this the way he did, he likely minimizes any potential backlash fallout, if this was ever to get out to the higher-ups in the Earth Forces.

Also,why has inoha so much trust in Rayet?What has changed about her?Did I miss anything?

Inaho and Rayet have somewhat similar personalities. Perhaps Inaho is picking up on that, and has some added trust in Rayet because of it.

Inaho and Rayet are both very practical, driven, and focused people. Perhaps Inaho thinks that if Rayet had any traitor tendency left in her, she would have acted on it by now, given these three characteristics her and Inaho have in common.

My take on Rayet is that the slaughtering of her father made her keenly and painfully aware of a dark truth of the Martian society, and it's a dark truth that this show has developed pretty well.

Basically, Mars society is very vain, classist/racist, feudalistic, and warlike. It has embraced all of these to a degree that would be completely farcical if not for just how deadly the Mars military is. So instead of a farce, you have this staggeringly dehumanizing monstrosity of a society that, at best, needs dramatic reform, and at worst is beyond redemption and needs to be destroyed for the sake of humanity as a whole. With that in mind, it'll be interesting to see which choice this narrative ultimately makes about Mars, because I strongly doubt Mars society will be allowed to stay as it is currently once it's all said and done.

I sense that at some level Rayet is aware of just how rotten Mars society is, and of how cavalierly it dispenses with human lives, even the lives of its own people, speaks strongly to how perverse a society it is. And so she's ashamed of it, she's ashamed of her personal ties to this horrible society, and so she wants to bring it down in flames. And while simple revenge may be a motivating factor for Rayet, I think here's more to it than that alone. I think she feels great guilt for her connection to the assassination attempt that sparked the current Earth/Mars hostility, and I think she feels that the only way she can redeem herself of that
guilt - to make amends for the great evil she feels connected to - is for her to personally play a role in bringing Mars down in flames.

Originally Posted by Asuras

The number of things that the writers give to Inaho's character never ceases to amaze me.

True, but to be fair, I don't see any other character that could do what Inaho did in this episode. His eye gives him special knowledge that other characters lack, and without that knowledge, there's no good reason to do what Inaho did in this episode. In other words, it wouldn't make sense for any other character to take the lead in pulling off this prison-break.

That being said, one of A.Z's major flaws is that it doesn't give enough things to other protagonist cast members. At least that's the case so far. Perhaps the show has big plans for Rayet given the focus and development she received in this episode. I can only hope.


On the whole, I thought this was a very good episode with some intriguing twists and turns. The one scene that made me facepalm a bit was the one where Inaho's sister chastised him for continuing to fight. I mean... I get what the show is aiming for there, but at this point it just seems so ridiculous for Yuki to act like Inaho is some raw rookie that should leave the war effort to real soldiers like herself.

I hope we don't get many more scenes like this one, because I just can't take them seriously any more.

[itisjustme]

Why won't the captain and Marito hook up already, they're adults for god's sake, not teens to be shying around not knowing what to do. :P I mean they're fighting a war, tomorrow they could be dead fffsss, time's awasting chop chop.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Raziel1991

^^^ That is not true, he only won by himself against Vlad (second fight) and against the guy in the ice kat (what was his name again?). Against everyone else he needed the help of others to execute his tactics.

True, the better way to say is that they are winning the battle mostly because of Inaho. So while he is not single handly winning the war, he has been pretty close.

Originally Posted by justinstrife

You are watching anime and complaining about a main character not being normal. Step back for a moment and think about the silliness of that outlook.

I will take a Gary Stu character anyday of the week over a Shinn or Shinji. However Inaho is not a Gary Stu. I also find it funny that people here think they know Japanese audiences' tastes better than the Japanese writers and producers that actually live there and work in that industry. In some cases, since before you were alive.

Even I was watching anime about 5 years before you were even born, and dont expect reality when watching anime.

What? when did I ever complain about him because he is not normal. Read again sir.
I would call Inaho a Stu, the dude is super intelligent and a great pilot, he doesn't have much flaw.

So just because we are not Japanese, we can't criticize?

And trust me, I been watching anime since I was like 3 starting with Drgonball, Slam Dunk, and the Brave Saga. I know I am not expecting reality. Though that applies to plot and scenario, you should still expect for character's personality and action to be realistic.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by itisjustme

Why won't the captain and Marito hook up already, they're adults for god's sake, not teens to be shying around not knowing what to do. :P I mean they're fighting a war, tomorrow they could be dead fffsss, time's awasting chop chop.

They have the complication of their shared connection to a man who died in the last war with Vers. IIRC, that man was the Captain's brother, and she holds some hard feelings towards Marito because of it. Marito himself has been totally traumatized by the very event where the Captain's brother died, and I think Marito also blames himself a lot for that.

So... that all makes the situation between the Captain and Marito a bit awkward for both. I think the two are attracted to one another in some ways, but the Captain might still be holding on to some bitterness over her brother's death, and Marito might suspect she's still bitter over it so he's scared to make the first move.

I can buy it. If I was in Marito's situation, I'd probably be a bit hesitant myself, for much the same reasons.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

I would call Inaho a Stu, the dude is super intelligent and a great pilot, he doesn't have much flaw.

If that's the definition, then either that term has no practical meaning, or better yet, it's actually a form of praise.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by monster

If that's the definition, then either that term has no practical meaning, or better yet, it's actually a form of praise.

To actual person, yes, but to a fictional character, no.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

To actual person, yes, but to a fictional character, no.

That seems silly. Not every fictional character needs to have many flaws. Even with Slaine, for all of my complaints of his actions, it really boils down to mainly one flaw.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by monster

That seems silly. Not every fictional character needs to have many flaws. Even with Slaine, for all of my complaints of of his actions, it really boils down to mainly one flaw.

There is a degree of everything. For me Inaho has too much of Stu like quality. He over comes almost all challenges without much effort and is too perfect.

It is like Superman vs Batman to some degree. I prefer Batman and I find Superman boring, some like Superman because he is pretty much prefect and doesn't have flaws.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

There is a degree of everything.

Well, I think you got that right. That's why, unlike novalysis, I don't consider "Gary Stu" (at least, per your definition) to be a literary sin. There are different types of characters to attract different types of interests in a fictional character. And certainly, Inaho has managed to keep my interest so far.

On a separate note, I prefer Batman over Superman too.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, I think you got that right. That's why, unlike novalysis, I don't consider "Gary Stu" (at least, per your definition) to be a literary sin. There are different types of characters to attract different types of interests in a fictional character. And certainly, Inaho has managed to keep my interest so far.

On a separate note, I prefer Batman over Superman too.

Yeah, it is subjective thing. I just can't find Inaho interesting and if you do find him interesting, I can't force you to change.

I generally prefer flawed characters, looking at your avatar reminds me of one of my favorite character, Vivi. Now, that is a great character.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by monster

That seems silly. Not every fictional character needs to have many flaws.

Most people tend to dislike flawless characters, at least in my experience. There's a reason why "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" are commonly used criticisms.

A flawless character tends to be hard to relate to, and tends to make a narrative very predictable, and both of these can be serious drawbacks hurting a character and/or the work featuring him/her.

I don't think that Inaho is flawless, or a Gary Stu, but he does run dangerously close to it at times.

In truth, though, the issue is less with him than with the rest of the protagonist cast. If they were given more to do, and had more successes (without needing Inaho's help), then the added sense of balance this would give to the full protagonist cast would make Inaho more palatable to those who dislike his OPness.

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

It is like Superman vs Batman to some degree. I prefer Batman and I find Superman boring, some like Superman because he is pretty much prefect and doesn't have flaws.

This is an aside, but Superman isn't flawless. He can be naive at times.

I honestly would argue that Batman is closer to flawless when it comes to basic competency.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

looking at your avatar reminds me of one of my favorite character, Vivi. Now, that is a great character.

He was actually my previous avatar.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In truth, though, the issue is less with him than with the rest of the protagonist cast.

That's actually along the same line that I said in another forum. I think, in a way, they're a victim of the supposed real vs super robot premise, if that was indeed the premise of the show.

This is an aside, but Superman isn't flawless. He can be naive at times.

I honestly would argue that Batman is closer to flawless when it comes to basic competency.

Yeah, sometimes it is Batman who has to keep Superman in check. But then again, I think that some (many? most?) of the characters that I see people label as being flawless do actually have flaws, just not enough for some.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Most people tend to dislike flawless characters, at least in my experience. There's a reason why "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" are commonly used criticisms.

A flawless character tends to be hard to relate to, and tends to make a narrative very predictable, and both of these can be serious drawbacks hurting a character and/or the work featuring him/her.

I don't think that Inaho is flawless, or a Gary Stu, but he does run dangerously close to it at times.

In truth, though, the issue is less with him than with the rest of the protagonist cast. If they were given more to do, and had more successes (without needing Inaho's help), then the added sense of balance this would give to the full protagonist cast would make Inaho more palatable to those who dislike his OPness.

That is where I think Rayet as a character has been wasted so far. She is from mars so she could have helped Inaho by giving him more information.
There are some sign of this show trying to give more balance between all the casts this season, but still needs more work.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is an aside, but Superman isn't flawless. He can be naive at times.

I honestly would argue that Batman is closer to flawless when it comes to basic competency.

True, there are instance where Batman has plan for everything to a ridiculous degree where he does feel inhuman.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Most people tend to dislike flawless characters, at least in my experience. There's a reason why "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" are commonly used criticisms.

A flawless character tends to be hard to relate to, and tends to make a narrative very predictable, and both of these can be serious drawbacks hurting a character and/or the work featuring him/her.

I don't think that Inaho is flawless, or a Gary Stu, but he does run dangerously close to it at times.

In truth, though, the issue is less with him than with the rest of the protagonist cast. If they were given more to do, and had more successes (without needing Inaho's help), then the added sense of balance this would give to the full protagonist cast would make Inaho more palatable to those who dislike his OPness.




This is an aside, but Superman isn't flawless. He can be naive at times.

I honestly would argue that Batman is closer to flawless when it comes to basic competency.

I was actually thinking that I don't find Batman any less "Gray Stu-ish" then Superman, if we're comparing. I mean depending on who's writing him he's a genius level detective, who runs a multibillion dollar company, a charismatic eligible bachelor who woman throw themselves at, has trained in various forms of martial arts, oh and he fights crime in his spare time.

As Stu-ness goes Inaho certainly isn't the worst, although I personally don't consider him a Stu either.