Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (ver 2 old)

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by aznegglover

What's with all the sudden CC hate?

I don't it's really hate, more like in order for this show's story to make any sense she needs to pay. C.C doesn't really deserve anything anyway, the little slavegirl does, but the immortal C.C doesn't.

[aznegglover]

Oh, and what's the bubble gum o.o?

[TheDisruptiveOne]

If Kallen and C.C. are both going to live...then I like the idea of Lelouch dying. Kallen and CC were together between season one and season two...I would be fine with them being together during the epilogue as well.

In fact, I think Lelouch dying in some selfless manner is probably the best way to handle things.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Orga777

She still needs to at least lose the Code to DESTROY Geass for good. Geass is the pain of the world and she caused too much pain to get away with being immortal with a Code that can produce MORE pain. It just wouldn't work.

Code can make Geass. But it is people who cause suffering.

CC was a slave. She had a horrible childhood. Where was the justice in her pain and suffering? She was probably even used as a sex toy.

There is nothing "fair"about life. What's important is that people learn from their mistakes and work towards a better future. CC had learned her lesson, but to say she had to lose her code when she could just keep it locked away, is ridiculous.

Only a Geass user can take her Code, and as long as she doesn't give out any more Geass, eventually there would be no Geass users left to take her code away.

And the point would soon be moot; by the looks of things, one day Geass would be understood by science. Jeremiah was given an anti-Geass by mechanical means, so it should be possible for the Code to be dissected and understood. People would be able to get Geass, but paradoxically anti-Geass would be readily available too. Thus nothing will change.

I don't it's really hate, more like in order for this show's story to make any sense she needs to pay. C.C doesn't really deserve anything anyway, the little slavegirl does, but the immortal C.C doesn't.

They are the same person. It is the suffering the slave girl endured that caused CC to be who she is today. If CC was born from a wealthy family she wouldn't ever have been given the Geass to begin with.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Var

That's hardly my point, I'm saying if it amounts to just that then it is/was an epic waste of time.



Sorry but no, she had the guarantee to survive all of that. The dead lose everything, including hope.

Well, I guess it depends how you value life. I personally would rather die than get tortured for 3years, as an example. And I'm quite sure you would aswell, if you were to experience something like that. Dunno if you have, but I assume you haven't. Not that I've experiensed anything of that level, but I'd tasted it at some point. Hence I'm able to say this.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Orga777

She still needs to at least lose the Code (and in turn memories) to DESTROY Geass for good. Geass is the pain of the world and she caused too much pain to get away with being immortal with a Code that can produce MORE pain. It just wouldn't work.

No it's not, Geass is neither good or evil it's a too a weapon to be used at the will of the user. Geass is not the pain of the world and it's not C.C's fault that Geass has caused people pain. It's not fair top jsut pin everthing on geass or C.C either. Geass exists for a reason and if it's used to hurt people it is the Geass users fault for using it in a bad way not the Geass fault.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Code can make Geass. But it is people who cause suffering.

CC was a slave. She had a horrible childhood. Where was the justice in her pain and suffering? She was probably even used as a sex toy.

Which is why we are saying she should lose the Code and her memories OF those painful events.

There is nothing "fair"about life. What's important is that people learn from their mistakes and work towards a better future. CC had learned her lesson, but to say she had to lose her code when she could just keep it locked away, is ridiculous.

There is always a chance it can come forward again. If the Code still exists in any way, there is a fear that Geass will get out again. THAT is something that has to be prevented for good.

And the point would soon be moot; by the looks of things, one day Geass would be understood by science. Jeremiah was given an anti-Geass by mechanical means, so it should be possible for the Code to be dissected and understood. People would be able to get Geass, but paradoxically anti-Geass would be readily available too. Thus nothing will change.

And do you think Jeremiah likes the body he is in? Because he sure as hell doesn't.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

No it's not, Geass is neither good or evil it's a too a weapon to be used at the will of the user. Geass is not the pain of the world and it's not C.C's fault that Geass has caused people pain. It's not fair top jsut pin everthing on geass or C.C either. Geass exists for a reason and if it's used to hurt people it is the Geass users fault for using it in a bad way not the Geass fault.

Tell that to people that lose control of it. Which is ALL OF THEM. Tell that to Mao who went completely insane because he couldn't shut it off and was forced to listen to everyone's thoughts digging into his brain for his entire life. Tell that to everyone that is related to Geass. Hell do you know what was said when it was first given to Lelouch by C.C. "Geass will make you end up alone." That is a fact too. Geass isn't anything but a curse.

[leechbox]

How can 2nd prince be emperor, doesnt he have to kill the next person in line. (meaning 1st prince.)


btw the bk's have higher tech so they cant get owned by 2nd prince right now (like people are saying). Actually bk's have a advantage, but the britanians have the freya.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Which is why we are saying she should lose the Code and her memories OF those painful events.

Those painful events were the ONLY memory the slave girl HAD. If you take that away too, you might as well have killed her and cloned a new baby from her cells.

Your memory is what makes you, you. Not your DNA, not your "essence". It is just your memories.

And it is those same sad memories that made CC want to be loved. There is someone right now who cared about her, do you want her to lose that memory too?

Wipe memory = no lesson learned. Everyone died for nothing. CC's experiences can be used for good, by making her a kinder individual. Just mind wiping her is merely another way of killing her off.

Tell that to people that lose control of it. Which is ALL OF THEM. Tell that to Mao who went completely insane because he couldn't shut it off and was forced to listen to everyone's thoughts digging into his brain for his entire life. Tell that to everyone that is related to Geass. Hell do you know what was said when it was first given to Lelouch by C.C. "Geass will make you end up alone." That is a fact too. Geass isn't anything but a curse.

Geass, when given, grants the receiver their greatest wish. That's all it is; the "be careful what you wish for" motto applies.
No one is ever giving the Geass by force. They have to accept the contract, and they only get the power they wanted.

What they wanted was not the same as what they needed. But then, wishes are almost always counterproductive.

[Var]

Originally Posted by whiter

Well, I guess it depends how you value life. I personally would rather die than get tortured for 3years, as an example. And I'm quite sure you would aswell, if you were to experience something like that. Dunno if you have, but I assume you haven't. Not that I've experiensed anything of that level, but I'd tasted it at some point. Hence I'm able to say this.

I may not, but people have experienced it and gone on to live. The point is that, simply, dieing removes all possibilities for the future. Those people who died likely had no choice in the matter, Geass is an ultimatum like death. C.C. spread the curse, there in she's suffered for it. Geass is unbridled power, which is a bad thing. She, however, has not paid for taking the future away from hundreds of people.

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

No it's not, Geass is neither good or evil it's a too a weapon to be used at the will of the user. Geass is not the pain of the world and it's not C.C's fault that Geass has caused people pain. It's not fair top jsut pin everthing on geass or C.C either. Geass exists for a reason and if it's used to hurt people it is the Geass users fault for using it in a bad way not the Geass fault.

No, Geass is power. Power has no form or side in the 'good or evil' debate, however, once it is spread openly on the basis of completing a selfish wish that power begins to do like all power and corrupt. No matter how power is used, it always destroys. But the point is, C.C. spread this power on the basis of selfishness, not benevolence.

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by Var

If she gets rejected, I expect her to die for Lelouch.

To hell with that. Besides, Rolo already did that scene, can't see them repeating it.

If she get's accepted, and that line is deceitful from the bubble gum, which it likely is (read: tsundere), then Lelouch will likely die.

I'll agree this is likely, though I don't think it should happen. Lelouch shouldn't die, he should live and continue to work towards keeping Nunnally's dream alive.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Those painful events were the ONLY memory the slave girl HAD. If you take that away too, you might as well have killed her and cloned a new baby from her cells.

If she lives through this, with just the memories of a slave girl, she won't have to worry about much else now though. She would be taken care of and loved. Which IS what she wanted.

Wipe memory = no lesson learned. Everyone died for nothing. CC's experiences can be used for good, by making her a kinder individual. Just mind wiping her is merely another way of killing her off.

Well, that is what makes sense though. It IS "killing" off C.C. which is what I expect to happen. A mind-wipe is the most likely outcome. And please don't give that "died in vain" thing. Lelouch thought that way too, but now, not quite so much. Thinking that way only caused more pain for him.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What they wanted was not the same as what they needed. But then, wishes are almost always counterproductive.

If we go by the cases of Mao and Lelouch, the two shown to aquire Geass (hell even the young C.C.), the Geass giver appears in the persons time of greatest need and presents them exactly what they need. That is more like the devil than anything.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Witacume

ok here a question i have?
Where the hell is charles in all this.
I assuming he has to die.
But how does one kill an immortal?
obviously CC and Marienne have a plan as there going to save Lelouch.
if CC plan is just to get Lelouch the hell out of there.
is she just gonna chill there with the emperor and play gold fish why can't she get out?
if lelouch can.

pff it was said that the sword of Akasha was working again, so how to kill a importal use his own weapon against him =P

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

I'll agree this is likely, though I don't think it should happen. Lelouch shouldn't die, he should live and continue to work towards keeping Nunnally's dream alive.

The thing is we don't even know who Kallen is saying it to. Unlike C.C's line which could only be said to Lelouch Kallen's line could be said to basically anyone in the CG cast.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Var

But the point is, C.C. spread this power on the basis of selfishness, not benevolence.

So why can't CC start spreading the power on the basis of benevolence from today onwards?

Why would it be too late to start now? For as long as there is a tomorrow, isn't it better if CC repents by helping the hundreds of people yet unborn?

For the alternative is to claim destruction is better than rebirth. For Charles, he doesn't believe in a tomorrow; the world is crocked, but instead of fixing it, he want it destroyed.

CC can repent by helping people, or repent by having more suffering. Which one is more constructive? And more importantly, what would Charles prefer?

If we go by the cases of Mao and Lelouch, the two shown to aquire Geass (hell even the young C.C.), the Geass giver appears in the persons time of greatest need and presents them exactly what they need. That is more like the devil than anything.

So the opposite of the devil is to not appear in the person's time of greatest need and don't present what they need?
Now I see why Angels only appeared to the dying match girl after she froze to death, and not before.

What causes problems with the Geass is the fact that one's wish is just that; a wish. And often what you asked for isn't what you REALLY wanted, because not many people in the world understand themselves enough to know what they need.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You said it yourself; Geass is not a happy power. So why should someone be punished for possessing an unhappy power?

As you said yourself, Geass can be a punishment all by itself. So why pile even more punishment on top? For fun?

Var has already said what I wanted to say but, really yes C.C has suffered from geass, it twisted her wish and she was betrayed by someone she thought she could trust. But she still perpetuated the suffering by giving people geass so she can die. Look at what happened to Mao? She abandoned him because he could not full fill his contract to her.

I am not saying she has to die, I actually want her old self that was untouched by geass to be able to live and find her happiness uncorrupted by geass.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

For months now, I have been trying to defend the rights of immortals. Repeatedly, people here had been telling me that being immortal means to live in eternal suffering, and that all immortals want to die by default. Indeed, many here even said they would rather die than become immortals themselves.

I just think you are too hung up on the whole immortal thing. Those with the code are not "normal" immortals. I tend to look at Geass as a whole in how it has been portrayed as a curse. When you are given the power of geass it will isolate you from others, your power can cause tragedy especially to those close to you. Inorder to be "free" from that power you become an immortal when your geass has advanced enough, ie you caused enough suffering with it. To be free from the Code you have to give someone geass to perpetuate that circle of tragedy and ruin another's life to do so. To me it is not so much as living eternally but rather living eternally with how much suffering they have caused and how much more they will have to cause to be free of it.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

So why can't CC start spreading the power on the basis of benevolence from today onwards?

Why would it be too late to start now? For as long as there is a tomorrow, isn't it better if CC repents by helping the hundreds of people yet unborn?

For the alternative is to claim destruction is better than rebirth. For Charles, he doesn't believe in a tomorrow; the world is crocked, but instead of fixing it, he want it destroyed.

CC can repent by helping people, or repent by having more suffering. Which one is more constructive? And more importantly, what would Charles prefer?

Because this discussion is about C.C. losing her code and whether or not she gets to keep her memories or not. This has nothing to do with her continuing as an immortal.

[leechbox]

Lelouch has a 50/50 chance of living.
C.C Dies for sure... (by saving lelouch in 21 or 22 or even 23)
Kallen doesn't die...
Jeramiah - not sure
2nd prince - of course (last 2 episodes)
charles - of course (1-2 episodes)
anya - not really
anya (mother inside) - maybe