2010-04-23, 00:19 | Link #61 | |
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(That's also why it's so interesting when you realize he's being lied to. Five Leaves is already complete without him.) Just because a writer has done male/male work in the past, it doesn't mean this colors all of their work that isn't under that label. While I can't disagree that there aren't (very faint) homoerotic undertones, I think your tone here is a little glib and not befitting of the nuanced situation put forth by this series.
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2010-04-23, 01:41 | Link #62 | |||
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-04-23 at 01:56. |
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2010-04-23, 03:53 | Link #63 | |||
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In other words, whether Akitsu joins the group isn't all that important. What really matters is what happens with both him and the members when he does. Akitsu gives off a sense of paradoxical fragility. It makes perfect sense to me why Yaichi would be interested in what happens when that's threatened. Will he break under the strain of being in a kidnapping group, or will we see steel underneath the veneer--like we did when he fulfilled his duty as bodyguard in the first episode? Quote:
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And my comment was pointing out that there's no point in judging it on this male/male basis simply because you find an element of it doesn't fit into your own personal perception of how same-gender relationships are supposed to work.
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2010-04-23, 07:15 | Link #64 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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And if there are some undertones later on, the Hakuouki thread did point out that these activities did happen in the samurai class. So this title is being historically correct if it happens .
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2010-04-23, 07:49 | Link #65 |
a regular van veen
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Manglobe (and Mochizuki especially) strikes again after Michiko to Hatchin (Seiken no Blacksmith doesn't count damnit!). I find this series (so far) works best in animated form compared to the much insipid chapters of the manga I've read. Then again, reading it right after Children of the Sea, Bokurano and Dorohedoro, I suppose any manga might appear dull and uninspired.
Either way, that was a promising episode full of the "Mochizuki" atmosphere (granted not as slow-paced and immerse as Zettai Shounen) that I love. I adore the character designs and find it far from ugly (which is one thing I can definitely compliment Ono for). Now, I just need to watch Yojo-han Shinwa Taikei and I'm all set. |
2010-04-23, 10:27 | Link #66 | |
Anxious bookseller
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Shibuya Psychic Research
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As much as I love hearing Yaichi talk, Masa has totally made this series for me. He is so interesting to watch with his personality issues. He wants to belong but feels he just doesnt based on past events. Like he said he's never really had a place to just hang out with friends. Its interesting how both Matsu and Yaichi know that what Yaichi is doing is against his normal nature. Makes me wonder so much more about him. And yeah since the 5 Leaves is complete, but thats not known to Masa, why do they still want him to join?
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2010-04-23, 11:26 | Link #67 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Episode two solidified my enjoyment of this series. It may not have a lot of action -- or even any action, this time around -- but it is full of the insides of people, their feelings, relationships, and possible intentions. We knew even before the show started that Masa would find himself joining, but how he and everyone else feels about that is what's interesting.
I liked how Mochizuki concentrated on Masa and Yaichi in the first episode, just showing us some other characters, then gave us more of those other characters in episode two: Ume, his daughter, Otake -- and introduced Matsu and the farmer and the courtesans. Maybe we'll get to know them better soon. Whether the gang is complete already depends on whether they consider the guy in the countryside an actual member. I'm not sure he does. The thing I probably like best about this show is hard to define: mood? feeling? There is some feeling running through it that gives it aesthetic unity. The music, the pacing of the movements and dialogue, the backgrounds, the lighting. Even the OP, using a different idiom as it does, helps set the feeling, for me. Great OP, by the way. And great background music, well used.
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2010-04-23, 12:32 | Link #68 | ||
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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2010-04-23, 12:54 | Link #69 | |
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I hope they dont betray Masa, Id feel bad for him. Again we dont know what Yaichi thinks.
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2010-04-23, 13:19 | Link #71 | ||||
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'Breaking under the strain of being in a kidnapping group' seems incredibly unlikely given how he's being coddled as the 'pickle boy', having money thrown at him waved off as 'hush money' or most importantly the highly focused personal interest he is recieving from all corners. Yaichi's fascination with him beyond his combat strength only contributes to this, as it only makes it more likely that Masa will be allowed to stay there without approaching his moral boundaries. Whether Masa will be able to fight or kill for their sake is indeed an interesting question, but it is not being presented as at all an urgent one. Quote:
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Also, to say that I'm 'judging' this is pretty damn disengenuous. I've already stated that I consider yaoi as perfectly emotionally valid as yuri is for me--which is to say, 'absolutely', as the fact that Kannazuki no Miko is one of my favourite animes ever, for its completely fantastical emotional content, might testify. That I'm identifying this show as having elements of female fantasy does nothing to degrade its nuance or validity--it merely acknowledges that a core part of its characterization is aimed at another audience. |
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2010-04-23, 13:58 | Link #72 | ||||
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Last edited by musouka; 2010-04-23 at 14:26. Reason: rudeness on my part |
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2010-04-23, 15:04 | Link #73 | |||
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edit: Ah, I see you've edited your post, negating most of mine...:P I took most of this as a misunderstanding, rather than rudeness on your part, so I didn't really mind. If you prefer, I could delete this though. |
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2010-04-23, 15:46 | Link #74 | |||
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To me, I'm much more interested in why he's going to give in. The series has set it up as there being two (entirely personal) reasons for Akitsu to give in and join the group. One, he's starving and poor. Two, they provide a sense of companionship he's never had before. The first reason alone is probably good enough to give in for most people, but it implies a certain pragmatism that Akitsu seems to lack. If, however, he goes into this group expecting the sort of camaraderie he's been seeking, there's a whole other layer to this. That's not a pragmatic reason to join anything; it's an emotional one. The group might not be exactly what he's looking for. He'll also have to balance getting to know them and his own sense of pride and morality. So it's not just suspense in him joining the group, it's the suspense in how he will make a place for himself within it. Quote:
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What if Ono had been a man? What if she had never written male/male? What if I pointed out other series by men aimed at men with similar sentiments? Would it still be a "yaoi fantasy"? Simply by labeling it a "yaoi fantasy", you're flattening the nuance of the situation just as surely as the label "tsundere" can flatten a female character's justified emotional states. Words don't only have meaning, they have a subtext to them. Using the word "yaoi" and "fantasy" has the same sense of labeling the series as "pandering" and "unrealistic" respectively. And, let me explain, there is nothing wrong with a certain level of pandering or unrealism--this doesn't mean a work can't strike you emotionally, as I'm sure Kannazuki no Miko did for you--but I don't think it fits for this series and the relationship Ono is trying to express. For a helpful example, I don't really think MariMite falls under the "yuri fantasy" label either (though it is certainly a "fantasy"), and I've had somewhat similar arguments about that.
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2010-04-23, 16:17 | Link #75 |
Anxious bookseller
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As much as this conversation is a fun read, we're teetering on off topic with the yaoi/yuri debate. Masa's characterization and what the 5 Leaves want with him Im cool with but the rest is borderline. If you keep wanting to discuss it I suggest VM and or PM
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2010-04-23, 20:46 | Link #76 | ||||
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Will Masa have to balance his pride and morality with his desire to fit in with them? That is probably true. However, that's imagining his situation as an entirely self-determining one. I kinda feel like Masa's 'place' within the group will not, at least for the near future, be determined by the above 'balance' you are talking about but rather what exactly the rest of the guys can pressure him into. Quote:
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2010-04-23, 22:29 | Link #77 | |
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Both Okinu and Otake do things that seem like they enjoy hanging out with him. He goes on the boat ride and otherwise hangs out quite a bit with Otake, and when the inn-keeper's daughter, Okinu, hears that he has never had friends she changes the way she addresses him. Like I said, this might all be because Yaichi said to be nice to him, but I think it goes beyond "high pressure recruitment tactics". |
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2010-04-23, 22:54 | Link #78 | |
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That part came across as rather manipulative to me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
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2010-04-24, 00:04 | Link #79 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Okane-san, on the other hand, seems as manipulative as they come. I've even wondered if she is truly a member of the Five Leaves as she doesn't seem particularly central to the group's activities thus far. Nor does she seem especially knowledgeable about their activities. Either she was dissembling when she asked Matsu if he was making deliveries, or she really didn't know he was assigned to spy on the previous kidnap victim and his family. I felt especially sad for Masa when the prostitute suddenly switches from exclaiming about how kawaii he is to exclaiming about how much she wants to sleep with Yaichi. I do think we're building toward a critical event where Masa will clearly be forced to take sides and perhaps even kill someone if he wishes to remain with the Leaves. Finally, these two episodes strike me as candidates for the perennial "what is slice-of-life" debate. Overall Five Leaves will probably best be classified as a drama, but it so far spends a lot of time showing us the daily lives of a group of kidnappers. Most of the drama so far has been internal and largely limited to Masa's personal struggles. This style of story-telling seems very uncommon in the West. I'm probably showing my lack of knowledge of literature, but the closest work I can think of in the American canon is Melville's Moby Dick, with its many extended discussions of whaling and the whalers' craft. Oh, and who was that samurai? Have we seen him before? Somehow I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing him again. Maybe he's with the House of Seven Leaves?
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2010-04-24, 00:15 | Link #80 | ||
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jidaigeki, manglobe, noitamina, seinen |
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