Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[black_cat1]

Originally Posted by mike211

I always thought that Mikihiko was part of the Hundred Families but he isn't, none the less he is from a prestigious family.

Yoshida clan is an ancient magic-clan, hence it's not 1 of the Hundred or 28 though their spirit magic is not inferior compare with modern magic

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

At the moment, no, that's just how the current system works. Things may change if any of the Hundred Family become so strong, so groundshaking (like several people on Miyuki's level were born in the same family ) that they have to do some reevaluation, but that's a very unlikely incident as the Ten Master House lineages have always been exceptional.

This is pretty much the reason Tatsuya isn't seen as part of the family as well. Before the operation he could not do anything beyond breaking things down and reconstructing them and even then that wasn't even being done in a way that fit the definition of magic. One of the main purpose of the operation, as many here fail to keep in mind, was to make it so Tatsuya could be part of the family but it failed. This pretty much means that his status in the family isn't something that Maya can dictate she fully recognizes him as her nephew and the operation was planned out by her implying she wanted him as a full family member.

Originally Posted by Waxman

The operation for the artificial calculation area ocurred when Tatsuya was 6 years old, i doubt many earthshaking moments happened at the time, likely he was bullied and his hellish training only started after that.
.
Im more interested in the formation of the silver series. It was said that in an attempt to keep him locked, his father used him in FLT laboratory.
.
Instead not only Tatsuya showed his genius he also recluted the FLT 3rd division of CAD development.

Originally Posted by Sylux

That would really be interesting to know.

Given the 3rd lab (hand picked by Tatsuya's father) didn't exist nor was the company focused with CAD design until shortly after the events in volume 8 (where Tatsuya first shows an interest for something that isn't his sister) and Tatsuya seems to have free run of the lab it looks to me as if his father was "buying his love" failing to understanding that he is doing what he wants in protecting Miyuki.

From my perspective it looks like this:
Father: believes Tatsuya is being force into looking after Miyuki and being taken away from what he likes. Trying to give him what he believes he wants

Tatsuya: Inferiority complex hitting him hard. believes his father sees him as a tool only not for his ability.

Miyuki: sees her father as being jealous of Tatsuya's ability and wanting to take him away so he can leach off of it.

Stepmother: Sees Tatsuya as a genius who insists on goofing off by going to high school which she feels he clearly doesn't need. has some unresolved jealousy issues and is conserved that Tatsuya has a very large pull in the company.

[Waxman]

I might be mistaken since its not specified but i was pretty sure that Tatsuya period in FLT lab was between the Okinawa invasion 3 (now 4) years ago and the entrance in first high.
.
I was pretty sure that was in order to separate Miyuki from Tatsuya after she started to see him as her Onii-sama.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Waxman

I might be mistaken since its not specified but i was pretty sure that Tatsuya period in FLT lab was between the Okinawa invasion 3 (now 4) years ago and the entrance in first high.
.

Yes but as I stated the 3rd lab (hand picked by Tatsuya's father) didn't exist until that time frame either.

I was pretty sure that was in order to separate Miyuki from Tatsuya after she started to see him as her Onii-sama.

This is a complete assumption. Dialogue in the first book makes it sound as if the big issue was him following Miyuki to high school. The only one that showed any signs of that was their mother and that was only wanting her to stop addressing him as such at events that were made up of only family members because being seen to rely too much on him could be bad for her future as clan head.

[Waxman]

Of course its an assumption, and a baseless one at that but i can easily picture Yotsuba members frowning to the way she treat him now, like how Kuroba didn't liked the way Fumiya treated Tatsuya.
.
Tatsuya was in FLT not guarding Miyuki, since for most people Tatsurou is a spineless man incapable of going against his late wife family the situation that separate the siblings was likely Yotsuba's idea and what other reason can they have other than her new way of treating him?

[black_cat1]

The Yotsuba clan won't do that cause Tatsuya is Miyuki's "Guardian" so there is no point in seperating them when they need Tatsuya protect Miyuki. Beside, Maya knows very well that Tatsuya only loves Miyuki as his sister thank to the only emotion remains in his mind so there is no need to seperate them.

The reason Tatsuya work in FTL solely because he is talent in CAD developing.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Or maybe from Hayama as the man seems to know a lot of things about the Yotsuba.

This old man know too much. He know Maya is a sage. And looks like he know what she is doing everytime.

It will be fun if one day he betray Maya.

Maya-Hayama is similar with Koichi - Nakura.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Then its is not written anywhere that people from the Hundred Family can't join the TMC?

Maybe they can as long as they're authentic Hundred families.

The strongest of the strong became the Ten Master Clans, with the other 18 families as replacements, followed closely by the authentic "Hundred Families".

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

There is some benefits to Miyuki remaining in the family. If she was to become the next head of the family like was epected then she could use her power to make Tatsuya a proper member of the family.

Originally Posted by Waxman

I might be mistaken since its not specified but i was pretty sure that Tatsuya period in FLT lab was between the Okinawa invasion 3 (now 4) years ago and the entrance in first high.
.
I was pretty sure that was in order to separate Miyuki from Tatsuya after she started to see him as her Onii-sama.

Is not mention when tatsuya stsrted working there, but it is not because his ability elememtal sight in terms of magic research it is a cheat like ability.

[kagato3]

officially Tatsuya is there to recover sample using his powers

Miyuki does not know the full truth of Tatsuya’s involvement with the Magical Engineer equipment maker, ‘Four Leaves Technology’, where their father serves as the developmental section chief.

He had made up many things in his spare time, so misinforming her into believing he had a reasonable job was a simple task.

If she knew that in truth he was merely used as a piece of recovery equipment for research samples, it was very possible that she could have paralyzed the entire transport system.

Not this quote is heavily tainted by Tatsuya's inferiority complex driven pessimism.
Unofficially he was pretty much given free rain of the labs where he was able to in his free time revolutionize CADs, IE doing something he liked.

It was public knowledge that FLT originally wasn't a manufacturer for CAD products, but a provider for spare parts used for Magic Engineering. Their ascent to the pinnacle of CAD development and production around the globe was largely in thanks to the Silver Series and Tatsuya by extension. With the introduction of Flying-Type Devices, FLT had become the innovator that pioneered the next paradigm shift in the world of Specialized CADs.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by kagato3

officially Tatsuya is there to recover sample using his powers

Not this quote is heavily tainted by Tatsuya's inferiority complex driven pessimism.
Unofficially he was pretty much given free rain of the labs where he was able to in his free time revolutionize CADs, IE doing something he liked.

Remember Tatsuya is godly good at discerning hostile threats. If he sayssomethins is a threat, it IS a threat. It is as official and legitimate as Word of God.
Beside, if the father means good will and nothing more, why did Tatsuya receive some hostile thoughts coming towards himself?

On the other hand, he is not good at picking good will. If he says someone is just considering him as a friend or he is not valued by someone, I will seriously doubt it.
He just assumes everyone (beside hostile force) treats him indifferently.

Masaki and Ichijou are good examples of this.. They highly value him, in a bad way, and feels competitive towards him. However, Tatsuya only thinks they are supposed to ignore him and doesn't consider them as enemies. Tatsuya doesn't think the same with his father.


The quote doesn't talk about "Tatsuya thinks he is look down upon by his father". If that's the case, i will side with you immediately.
However, it is not : it clearly states that "his father IS a hostile" and "his father actually recognizes Tatsuya's talent". The talent surpasses his own and with "the father" inferiority complex, being 2 reasons why "the father" is hostile to Tatsuya.

In conclusion, the only one, that is treated well but think he is treated badly, is the on that can't recognize BOTH good will and bad will.

----------------------

Spoiler for In regard to his father:

He is a bad guy in my standard because he denies Tatsuya's human right to education and training.
It is the basic right for each human to pursue knowledge regardless of ages, genders, ethnics and level of education. Every the brightest scientists in the humanity history continue to learn until they draw their last breath.
"Study, study more, study forever!"-Lenin.

There are the case where parents do not have the sufficient resources for their children to study. Or there are the case where father/mother, who has affair for example, neglects his/her family and doesn't care about the children's study. Or the parents abandon their children (don't want to be the parents and take the parent's responsibility) thus these kids are now beggars instead of being students.
But that all constitute to "do not assist people in learning".

But for Tatsuya's "father in name only", that is not that case.
He is rich and Tatsuya is rich. "We don't have money for you to study" is no excuse.
As his boss, work is no excuse either. Tatsuya always meets the quota and companies always want to train their best employers such as give their opportunities to attain master degree. You of all people know that the best, right Kagato3?
Beside, why he doesn't fire Tatsuya if his study hinders his work (which is not true) instead of coercing him abandon his study ? It's not like Tarus Silver can't get a job without his help. And that's actually a better opportunity for Tatuysa to learn things than staying at his father's company IF he ever loves and wants Tatsuya to grow up.
Actually fuck that reasoning above, he is at the age of learning and learning is his right. There is no reasons that can be accepted to forbid one from learning.
Not assisting? Fine. But forbidding? NO!!!
Period!


In conclusion, not only "The father in name only" does not assist him in his knowledge, he also ACTUALLY actively prevents and forbids Tatsuya from learning for no legitimate reasons (IF there is one), which runs opposite of Tatsuya's desire.
He doesn't fail at his role as a father, he is not a father to begin with. Heck, even people who simply don't want to take the parent's responsibility is not as bad as this m*ther-f*cker.

-----------------------
p/s: @Kagato

If she knew that in truth he was merely used as a piece of recovery equipment for research samples, it was very possible that she could have paralyzed the entire transport system.

That's no Miyukii's POV. It's "Tatsuya's hostile radar" in action.

[Ultragunner]

yeah, we still don't know how Tatsuya's father and stepmother really see him from their perspective. Though it may not be as bad as we see from Miyuki's view, I just feel that the two of them aren't so nice

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

However, it clearly states that "his father IS a hostile" and "his father actually recognizes Tatsuya's talent". The talent surpasses his own and with "the father" inferiority complex, being 2 reasons why "the father" is hostile to Tatsuya.

And that point of view is only based on Miyuki's belief of what is going on. On a side note Tatsuya makes a remark about how he believes his father is trying to make him feel indebted which he expresses to Miyuki before her rant that mentions the above points. Now remember what you just said about Tatsuya being bad at picking up on good will. Miyuki also has a laundry list of other reasons she doesn't see her father in a good light and she apparently never has going off volume 8.

As for how his Step mother views him this sums it up.

In principle, the young man was by all rights her son, but every time she was before him she found it hard to maintain her composure.

She was perfectly well aware of the reason behind this.

Because he was the son of her rival.

Paired with an engineer's ability and achievements.

Complete with unreadable eyes and unfathomable emotions.

Under his eyes, she wasn't seen as a human being, but simply a specimen under a microscope and relegated to the status of an item.

Just the way he viewed his own role as a tool, but Sayuri was unaware of that.

What she did know was that this contract demanded his cooperation, but her own impatience had made this significantly more difficult. Silently, she redirected her gaze out the window and heaved a heavy sigh.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

yeah, we still don't know how Tatsuya's father and stepmother really see him from their perspective. Though it may not be as bad as we see from Miyuki's view, I just feel that the two of them aren't so nice

No, from volume 6 we know a bit of Sayuri's perspective.


But till volume 12, we don't know Tatsurou's perspective. Similar with Koichi.
We only knew them from other people perspective.

If I'm not mistaken Tatsurou only talk once in volume 3.

"............"
"Tatsuya, stop."
Tatsuya's father, who had remained silent until now — Shiba Tatsurou, covered for the immobile Aoki who had been cowed into silence and stepped forward to halt Tatsuya.
"Don't speak poorly of your mother."
But his words were completely off topic.
This was done to avoid irritating the main house and to protect himself.
This corporation was secretly funded by the Yotsuba Family, so even though he was the majority shareholder thanks to the stocks from his deceased wife, the actual power of attorney still remained in the hands of the Yotsuba Family, hence it wasn't surprising for him to speak softly around them, but......( Author describe tatsurou like that )
Tatsuya almost broke into laughter.
"Tatsuya, it's not that I don't understand why you bear hatred towards your mother......"
And, this father couldn't even read Tatsuya's expression.
Tatsuya truly believed that, for the sake of everyone's mutual mental health, it was best to leave as quickly as possible.
Even so, Tatsuya felt that he needed to add one extra comment before departing.
"Otou-san, you misunderstand, I don't hate my mother."
"Is...... Is that so......"
That was all that was necessary.
There was no need to tell him the words Tatsuya didn't say.
Tatsuya's heart did not possess the ability to "hate".

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Waxman

The operation for the artificial calculation area ocurred when Tatsuya was 6 years old, i doubt many earthshaking moments happened at the time, likely he was bullied and his hellish training only started after that.
.
Im more interested in the formation of the silver series. It was said that in an attempt to keep him locked, his father used him in FLT laboratory.
.
Instead not only Tatsuya showed his genius he also recluted the FLT 3rd division of CAD development.

Or he could turn out to be a screwed up kid...Like I said before, there's something a little disturbing about a child playing around with the concept of matter.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

yeah, we still don't know how Tatsuya's father and stepmother really see him from their perspective. Though it may not be as bad as we see from Miyuki's view, I just feel that the two of them aren't so nice

They are NOT nice.
I explained why in the spoiler of the post above.
The only good parent and possible employee would be Shizuki's parent.
Man, Tatsuya should have worked for Shizuku.

I even get deadpan-on-deadpan action as a bonus.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by hakazee

No, from volume 6 we know a bit of Sayuri's perspective.


But till volume 12, we don't know Tatsurou's perspective. Similar with Koichi.
We only knew them from other people perspective.

If I'm not mistaken Tatsurou only talk once in volume 3.

Again that POV is strictly Tatsuya's not a third person narration

@bietchie11
The request to drop out of school has nothing to do with denying education. What it has to do with is that fact that his talent and knowledge base is such that he is capable of doing things that no other CAD designer has ever even come up with. He is in essence turning down a multimillion dollar a year job that he is completely qualified To take classes that are so educational that we barley have heard anything about them at all and apparently never need to be studied for. Frankly Tatsuya is wasting his time in the high school he's never going to be above a c grade mage in the current system and he clearly knows more about the theory then pretty much everyone as he has been making possible the so called impossibilities of magic.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by kagato3

Again that POV is strictly Tatsuya's not a third person narration

Maybe.
Even that's the truth, that is Tatsurou personal problem with the Yotsuba.
I think Tatsurou can't oppose Yotsuba. Simply like that.


What we don't know is his attitude towards tatsuya.
We never read tatsuya talking with tatsurou except volume 3.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by kagato3

Again that POV is strictly Tatsuya's not a third person narration

@bietchie11
The request to drop out of school has nothing to do with denying education. What it has to do with is that fact that his talent and knowledge base is such that he is capable of doing things that no other CAD designer has ever even come up with. He is in essence turning down a multimillion dollar a year job that he is completely qualified To take classes that are so educational that we barley have heard anything about them at all and apparently never need to be studied for. Frankly Tatsuya is wasting his time in the high school he's never going to be above a c grade mage in the current system and he clearly knows more about the theory then pretty much everyone as he has been making possible the so called impossibilities of magic.

What you say makes perfect sense, it's just that it seems they don't give a damn about Tatsuya's opinion in the matter. Put it like this, if Shizuku (or her brother I you prefer) were just as talented as Tatsuya (she/he doesn't need to go to school at all) then would her parents ignore her desire to go to school and then just make her work for the company (excluding the time when things get dangerous and her best option is to stay at home)?. I don't think they would.

They way they speak and behave in front of Tatsuya is just like one talk to a lowly servant or even slave (like "why the hell are you going to school while you can make more money for me?" kind of thing), Tatsuya has much more respect from his colleagues such as Ushiyama (the other part of Taurus Silver) or even the 101 Battalion.

[JTeague]

Since everyone is analyzing Shiba Tatsurou I'd like to chime in as well.

I don't believe that he's as black and white a character as argued by some posters on this forum. Not much information is given about him but the information that is there does speak some volume about him.

One is that he never wanted to marry into the Yotsuba. He was practically forced too when they still considered psions as a measurement for magical ability. He was with Sayuri first, and literally had to wait until Miya died to be with her again. Tatsuya and Miyuki are an extension of a situation he seemingly never wanted, even if he's still reaping the financial rewards, there's likely a bit of bitterness.

Also I feel the use of "spineless coward" is a bit overused. I think there's a difference between being spineless and outright self preservation. Going against the Yotsuba is not good for self preservation. The fact that he himself was more or less used as a fertilization tool to produce Tatsuya and Miyuki. My likely scenario is that he was coaxed into marrying Miya for the sake of his genes, once the children were born Miya and the Yotsuba likely took full control over the children. This left him with very little influence in his children's lives to begin with. The Yotsuba's influence over his children probably only increased as they grew up which left him distant. This is my understanding.

I think his opinions are just a reflection of the Yotsuba. They wanted Tatsuya to drop out of school, He wishes the same. He praises Miyuki in the same manor the Yotsuba praise her but has very little fatherly contact with her. It came off to me as a sort of obligated niceness. The Yotsuba are hostile towards Tatsuya out of fear, Tatsurou has a similar stance and probably wishes to obtain some bit of leverage to keep a hold on Tatsuya. This last one is more of a personal theory with little foundation but it seems the Yotsuba recognize Tatsuya and Miyuki as a package deal. They fear Tatsuya and wish to keep reins on him, this ensures they're especially kind to miyuki even more so then they would be normally. Miyuki is essentially the only thing able to keep Tatsuya chained at all so they cement her status in the Yotsuba even further and make it a point that she must absolutely become clan head if only to keep Tatsuya from biting them. The fact they have Miyuki keeps Tatsuya close. The fact they have a hold on Tatsuya keeps Miyuki close. Despite all this they're trying to ease Tatsuya away from Miyuki. Manami is implied to be a future replacement for Tatsuya. The repeated requests for him to follow other paths is even more solid evidence. They're slowly trying to drive him out while pulling Miyuki deeper in so that he'll never retaliate. Again, this is all my personal speculation. However, I also feel on some level Tatsurou mimics this sentiment as well.

All in all, Tatsurou is mostly the Yotsuba's bitch. They control his finances and have his children. They prevented him from being with Sayuri and sort of messed with his life, with little he could do about it because going directly against the Yotsuba isn't any kind of brave at all. It's equivocally signing your own death certificate; metaphorically, financially, and even literally if they so choose.

He may be a bad character, he may be a bad father, but I think there's no denying he got the raw end of the deal way early on. It probably severely wore out his emotions and character; likely leaving him with some form of trauma built up from dealing with those crazy Yotsuba's for at least 17 years.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by JTeague

Since everyone is analyzing Shiba Tatsurou I'd like to chime in as well.

I don't believe that he's as black and white a character as argued by some posters on this forum. Not much information is given about him but the information that is there does speak some volume about him.

One is that he never wanted to marry into the Yotsuba. He was practically forced too when they still considered psions as a measurement for magical ability. He was with Sayuri first, and literally had to wait until Miya died to be with her again. Tatsuya and Miyuki are an extension of a situation he seemingly never wanted, even if he's still reaping the financial rewards, there's likely a bit of bitterness.

Also I feel the use of "spineless coward" is a bit overused. I think there's a difference between being spineless and outright self preservation. Going against the Yotsuba is not good for self preservation. The fact that he himself was more or less used as a fertilization tool to produce Tatsuya and Miyuki. My likely scenario is that he was coaxed into marrying Miya for the sake of his genes, once the children were born Miya and the Yotsuba likely took full control over the children. This left him with very little influence in his children's lives to begin with. The Yotsuba's influence over his children probably only increased as they grew up which left him distant. This is my understanding.

I think his opinions are just a reflection of the Yotsuba. They wanted Tatsuya to drop out of school, He wishes the same. He praises Miyuki in the same manor the Yotsuba praise her but has very little fatherly contact with her. It came off to me as a sort of obligated niceness. The Yotsuba are hostile towards Tatsuya out of fear, Tatsurou has a similar stance and probably wishes to obtain some bit of leverage to keep a hold on Tatsuya. This last one is more of a personal theory with little foundation but it seems the Yotsuba recognize Tatsuya and Miyuki as a package deal. They fear Tatsuya and wish to keep reins on him, this ensures they're especially kind to miyuki even more so then they would be normally. Miyuki is essentially the only thing able to keep Tatsuya chained at all so they cement her status in the Yotsuba even further and make it a point that she must absolutely become clan head if only to keep Tatsuya from biting them. The fact they have Miyuki keeps Tatsuya close. The fact they have a hold on Tatsuya keeps Miyuki close. Despite all this they're trying to ease Tatsuya away from Miyuki. Manami is implied to be a future replacement for Tatsuya. The repeated requests for him to follow other paths is even more solid evidence. They're slowly trying to drive him out while pulling Miyuki deeper in so that he'll never retaliate. Again, this is all my personal speculation. However, I also feel on some level Tatsurou mimics this sentiment as well.

All in all, Tatsurou is mostly the Yotsuba's bitch. They control his finances and have his children. They prevented him from being with Sayuri and sort of messed with his life, with little he could do about it because going directly against the Yotsuba isn't any kind of brave at all. It's equivocally signing your own death certificate; metaphorically, financially, and even literally if they so choose.

He may be a bad character, he may be a bad father, but I think there's no denying he got the raw end of the deal way early on. It probably severely wore out his emotions and character; likely leaving him with some form of trauma built up from dealing with those crazy Yotsuba's for at least 17 years.

Very well put.