Gundam 00: A wakening of the Trailblazer - Expectations and Speculation

[Hellbore]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

He didn't need to manipulate the market. He had Louise and god knows what else backing A-LAWS, plus by that time, the whole of the Federation's standing forces.

Right.

Still, I wonder whether A-Laws wouldn't have noticed/cared that portions of their budget were being used for Secret Innovade Business rather than their own forces.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

So I got a question...with two more new mass production GNMS, what's going to become of the GN-XIII and all non-GNMS?

Is the GN-XIII going to receive upgrades to perform on par with the GN-XIV? What about the Flags and Enacts? Are they going to retire because of the new GN-Flag?

Or is the ESF going to stockpile all available MS?

Personally,one advantage I see with the GN-X series is that they're very similar with each other,with a core design structure.So they can always take old units and reconfigure/upgrade into new ones without as much hassle.I think the US Army does this with its main line of tanks though I've forgotten the name.

The GN-X IV looks to be a bigger upgrade than any previous other previous numerical upgrade to the GN-X series,but I think the principle still counts.It may [estimated] be a bit more expensive to upgrade but the principle sould still apply.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

They should just do away with all non-GNMS, IMO. Compared to performance levels of the the GN-XIII and the late Ahead, they're pretty much useless.

Well,Katharon's fleet in S222 disagree.Not to mention the occasional victory stories we've heard being scored by normal MS.

For the record,GN technology is pretty advanced and should be expensive to make and produce.So yes,they'll probably be phased out eventually but the those units remaining would still be useful.

Most of the ESF army's lineup in up until end of S2 still consist of regular MS,we've seen this visually in S217 but it was also directly mentioned in the HG GN-X III ESF Type manual.Even A-LAWS have around 100 MS only in their fleet consisting of GN-X IIIs and Aheads.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

But it's not like a GNMS being able to take on several non-GNMS. Episode 1 of the second season had the Ahead taking on like 3 mobile suits at once.

Yes,but that's a pretty skilled pilot Captain Ginin,which has given the Gundam pilots some trouble over time as well in his Ahead,where we've seen other Aheads just simply get trashed pretty simply,to be fair some of them was in situations in which they were in severe disadvantage but the Aheads rarely pose a threat in general because of the suit alone againts the Gundams.

But your point is correct,the Ahead is much more technologically superior than the other normal MS,its just a matter of cost really.

But as mentioned,the older MS will be useful as infantry roles.Of course they'll phased out eventually as GN Technology gets alot cheaper but there's no rush to get rid of all them that I can see,its only been 4 years,next 6 in the movie.

Also,we have seen some old Ms be upgraded with GN Technology,Sergei's Tieren All Region Type uses a Beam Rifle,taking power from stored internal Condenser.It even has the ability to generate a bema saber at the barrel,though this was never showcased in the anime.

Originally Posted by Hellbore

Right.

Still, I wonder whether A-Laws wouldn't have noticed/cared that portions of their budget were being used for Secret Innovade Business rather than their own forces.

I think Ribbons would have seperated the funds that they would have used for A-Laws while some are specifically allocated for the Innovedo Celestial Being Faction.

Since Louise answers directly to Ribbons,her funds may have been split directly between the 2,while most of the more general rich doners of A-LAWS may have donated to the more general A-LAWS faction.[under Ribbons guidance and promises probably]

And I'm sure Ribbons could use Veda to manipulate the data within A-LAWS to prevent suspicion as well if he needed to.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

Personally,one advantage I see with the GN-X series is that they're very similar with each other,with a core design structure.So they can always take old units and reconfigure/upgrade into new ones without as much hassle.I think the US Army does this with its main line of tanks though I've forgotten the name.

The GN-X IV looks to be a bigger upgrade than any previous other previous numerical upgrade to the GN-X series,but I think the principle still counts.It may [estimated] be a bit more expensive to upgrade but the principle sould still apply.



Well,Katharon's fleet in S222 disagree.Not to mention the occasional victory stories we've heard being scored by normal MS.

For the record,GN technology is pretty advanced and should be expensive to make and produce.So yes,they'll probably be phased out eventually but the those units remaining would still be useful.

Most of the ESF army's lineup in up until end of S2 still consist of regular MS,we've seen this visually in S217 but it was also directly mentioned in the HG GN-X III ESF Type manual.Even A-LAWS have around 100 MS only in their fleet consisting of GN-X IIIs and Aheads.



Yes,but that's a pretty skilled pilot Captain Ginin,which has given the Gundam pilots some trouble over time as well in his Ahead,where we've seen other Aheads just simply get trashed pretty simply,to be fair some of them was in situations in which they were in severe disadvantage but the Aheads rarely pose a threat in general because of the suit alone againts the Gundams.

But your point is correct,the Ahead is much more technologically superior than the other normal MS,its just a matter of cost really.

But as mentioned,the older MS will be useful as infantry roles.Of course they'll phased out eventually as GN Technology gets alot cheaper but there's no rush to get rid of all them that I can see,its only been 4 years,next 6 in the movie.

Also,we have seen some old Ms be upgraded with GN Technology,Sergei's Tieren All Region Type uses a Beam Rifle,taking power from stored internal Condenser.It even has the ability to generate a bema saber at the barrel,though this was never showcased in the anime.



I think Ribbons would have seperated the funds that they would have used for A-Laws while some are specifically allocated for the Innovedo Celestial Being Faction.

Since Louise answers directly to Ribbons,her funds may have been split directly between the 2,while most of the more general rich doners of A-LAWS may have donated to the more general A-LAWS faction.[under Ribbons guidance and promises probably]

And I'm sure Ribbons could use Veda to manipulate the data within A-LAWS to prevent suspicion as well if he needed to.

Yeah it was, Sergei used it to block Andrei's GN-XIII's beam saber.

For the record, I would like to add that I do not believe GN Tau Drives are expensive to produce. If they were, they wouldn't put 3 of them on one MA, i.e. the Trilobite. Just my two cents.

[SonicSP]

For the record,the Trilobyte is an MA.And MA in general have much more power requirements,and are suppose to be far stronger than mobile suits.

The thing here is relative cost,GN technology in general should be more expensive than conventional technology but the Trilobyte isnt as much of mass production model as say the GN-X III,in recent AD timeline period so its not like they're shelfing 2 Drives for every

Not putting 2 Drives there would already weaken the powerful and more expensive investment.For them to do this,the benefit of putting 2 drives on the Trilobyte would outweighs the savings of not putting it there,since they're already invested the money into making the Trilobyte.

And that's why we consider Tau drives expensive,they are expensive to mass produce.But relative to True GN-Drives they're cheap especially if you compare the performance it can achive.

But the thing here is,they can still produce a reasonably large number of Drives,enough so that they can afford to put 2 on a very advanced MA.In this sense,Tau Drives can be considered cheap as far as advanced militaries are concerned.The thing here is,the world is a very large place.F-22 Raptors are powerful,but even to the US they're expensive per unit if I recall.I eat good expensive food when I can afford it but I eat the normal cheap everyday stuff most of the time.

There will be a cream of the crop part of the army,and this will be definitely be the GN-Drive weapons,who gets to eat alot of funding but pay back by giving good performance.Then you have the other less advanced sections of the army who should be less focused now and more cheaper.

The problem here would be the old suits.They're still counted as spent cost,not to mention if you want to replace every single MS in the world with a GN one,its going to be veyr costly.Not to mention the old suits can still do a reasonably good job.I don't think the Federation are going to just destroy all of them but destrying perfectly good working MS would be just a waste.

The old suits will be phased out in eventual time of course,but for moment they will probably take their roles as decent fighter.No conventional technology Flag will ever be the cream of the crop again but it could serve as a cheap low level soldiers get to pilot.

One could also consider the Tieren argument here,comparitively with the other blocs,the Tierens are less advanced [And are also 10 years old in S1] but because the Tieren uses more older and more understood technology,technology that is much less experimental.Because of this they suffer much less mechanical failures than its counterparts.The HRL are equal in terms of technology prowess but delinrately chose to use this philosophy because of the Tierens reliability factors.

While its never mentioned that the same applies to GN suits,it may be possible that the conventional suits suffer less breakdowns because the technology is more knowned and understood by the mechanics.Not the main reaosn I would use but something that just entered my mind.



So yeah,your not actually wrong.They are probably cheap enough so that they can afford to put 2 in a non mass produced MA,its just that they may be too expensive to simply replace all those MS that are already there and are sort of useful to a certain extent.

Federation's military budget would also play a factor,there may be a public backlash and for reducing it afater the A-LAWS scandal.Though the opposite happened after the Break Pillar incident,though they didnt know the truth then.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

So, what would logically happen when the GN-XIV and Ekisubo start being produced? Surely by that time, the GN-XIII will start to phase out the non-GNMS right?

With the GN-XIV and Ekisubo being for the top aces, wouldn't that downgrade the GN-XIII for standard pilots?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

So, what would logically happen when the GN-XIV and Ekisubo start being produced? Surely by that time, the GN-XIII will start to phase out the non-GNMS right?

With the GN-XIV and Ekisubo being for the top aces, wouldn't that downgrade the GN-XIII for standard pilots?

Doubtful. When the GN-XII came out, the GN-X was phased out. When the GN-XIII came out, the GN-XII was phased out. Going by that logic, the GN-XIII will be phased out in favor for the GN-XIV.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

The life of a mobile suit sure does blow.

[Rising Dragon]

Such is technology advancement for you. When something new comes out, designed to replace something old, the old gets phased out by the new.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Such is technology advancement for you. When something new comes out, designed to replace something old, the old gets phased out by the new.

I suppose this means the GN-XIII will become the new Anf to terrorist organizations if such a situations arises? Or will just be sold off to countries that aren't part of the ESF?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

I suppose this means the GN-XIII will become the new Anf to terrorist organizations if such a situations arises?

Doubtful. If the Katharon forces couldn't even obtain GN-Xs or GN-XIIs, I doubt other, less-capable terrorist forces will get GN-XIIIs. No, they're likely still stuck with Anfs, Tierens, Flags, and Enacts like Katharon was.

[SonicSP]

I think the problem would be that they may not be able to handle the technology involved in specific area such maintanence,parts,GN-Drive supply and whatnot.And they may cost much higher as well.

If I was the ESF though,I'll be securing my GN-technology very tighly.

[Kirbyeggs]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Such is technology advancement for you. When something new comes out, designed to replace something old, the old gets phased out by the new.

Hey there were GMIIIs in F91. I am pretty sure that old technology goes to some good uses and maybe police forces can use the old suits or something. But I guess the forces the heroes will be facing will be advanced. IMO the grunt suit design of aheads and GNXs do not really look aesthetic to me. The head is too weird. Katharon's suits look better

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kirbyeggs

Hey there were GMIIIs in F91. I am pretty sure that old technology goes to some good uses and maybe police forces can use the old suits or something. But I guess the forces the heroes will be facing will be advanced. IMO the grunt suit design of aheads and GNXs do not really look aesthetic to me. The head is too weird. Katharon's suits look better

Using a U.C. reference for me, frankly, is entirely pointless as I'm not too versed in mainstream U.C.. However, I do know that by F91 and Victory, the Federation is pretty much dying and thus the situations are entirely different in 00, as the Federation there is extremely healthy and now, due to the end of the war and the loss of A-LAWS, is only growing stronger.

Anyways, I wasn't saying that the older GN-X models would disappear entirely. But the GN-XIV would become far more numerous than the GN-XIII.

[LightningZERO]

With GN-XIV and Ekisubo confirmed as the next gen MS for the federation (or whatever in govern of Earth), what about the Aheads? I assume Ekisubo are for the best pilots like the Aheads were in Season 2, so in the movie Ahead will probably be obsolete and development discontinued like what happened to the Flags and Enacts in Season 2?

[Rising Dragon]

Compared to the GN-XIV, maybe. Compared to the Ekisubo, most likely.

But the Ahead's getting dropped not because of being outdated, but because it was the A-LAWS star machine.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Since the Ekisubo is confirmed to be a GN-enabled MS, then I reckon that the ESF now has two mainstream mobile suits.

First, one of the MS are the general purpose type and the other allocated for elite pilots. Or second, both MS are used for general purposes.

Maybe the Ekisubo will act as an aerial and high mobility type MS while the GN-X IV will be the heavy and artillery combat MS?

[SonicSP]

The GN-X IV's original role was to be a more lightweight mobilesuit for the ESF while the Ahead was suppose to be a bit more of a heavy type for the ESF.

But with the Ahead being discontinues,that's probably changed.The new main 2 are the GN-X IV and the Ekisubo.

From lokking at it,the GN-X IV seems to be the heavier of the 2 so they may have changed the design spec to make it the heavier type.

Or there is a change of emphasis with the GN-X IV being considered lightweight but relatively medium compared to the Ahead while the Ekisubo is like a super light type suit.

So intead of a light and heavy type.You may now have a light and super light type.

[velocity7]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

For the record, I would like to add that I do not believe GN Tau Drives are expensive to produce. If they were, they wouldn't put 3 of them on one MA, i.e. the Trilobite. Just my two cents.

I do agree that the GN Tau Drive is inexpensive. However, the Trilobite is:

• a mobile armor
• a unit that didn't seem to pass mass production

So it's not exactly the brightest example that a Tau Drive is cheap. Just saying.

[LoweGear]

"Light" and "Super Light" in looks maybe, but we have no basis for comparison on the function of the Ekisubo and the GN-XIV yet. Though it's probably just more or less semantics anyway: The weight of "Heavy" Tanks of World War II are now the weight of "Medium" Tanks today for example

Also, the Ekisubo/GN-XIV combo, like the preceding Ahead/GN-XIII before it is very much like the F-15/F-16 or the F-22/F-35 pair: One is an expensive yet powerful fighter, while the other is a lightweight, yet versatile machine.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by velocity7

I do agree that the GN Tau Drive is inexpensive. However, the Trilobite is:

• a mobile armor
• a unit meant for an ace pilot
• a unit of which one was ever made

So it's not exactly the brightest example that a Tau Drive is cheap. Just saying.

Actually, I think that the Trilobite had more than one pilot. And there was definitely more than one Trilobite; in the episode the Ptolemy escaped back to space there were multiple Trilobites converging on its position.