Dating

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Statistically speaking, it's likely there are couples that "just work" without having to work, or wonder why they are together; they just click together that well. Where Lio is coming from, and to a degree me as well, is that is NOT something you should count on. To get by in life, you can count on winning the lottery, or get a job. Which is the generally smarter method?

Bad example because as I said, humans and relationships are volatile things.
We both have stated our points and the final line is, neither my beliefs or your beliefs become the be all and end all.
Yours is only foolproof if the couple in question have the personality, the culture and mindset of being straight up, brutally honest and open and free with their feelings and thoughts.
Chances of that are relatively slim as well...

That said, make what you want out of life. No guarantee you're gonna get everything you want, but everyone else is pretty much in it for themselves, so why not you, too? And if someone gets mad or upset, it's just because they are not advanced enough, still mired in evolutionary baggage.

And in the end, people really don't care about you, only what you can do for them. I can point to several examples myself, but there's no need since everyone has experienced it. I had this debate on another forum, but "altruism" technically doesn't exist, since everything someone does is mandated by a form of selfishness.

Disclaimer: Coming from someone with no real strong family ties, broken hearts, cynical views, no partner and no children.

There's being realistic and practical and scientific and whatnot and then there's being so damn pessimistic that it chokes the life and warmth outta living things that it's self destructive and razor sharp, it cuts. *shudders*
What chance is there to invite warmth and positivism to you, how the hell can you expect people to accept you, hell it's not you we're not accepting, it's the blanket of loathing that we can't accept, the blades are way too sharp.

You can see it in the responses you've gotten. People won't like you for the opinions you hold, especially if they clash with their own opinions. And it's pretty hard for them to let someone go on living if that person thinks differently then them.

Woah, woah woah, I'm sorry.
If we had an anorexic person come on board, tells us their view of the world, they're harming and preventing themselves from getting better, because it clashes with general common sense and evident self harm, especially since in Arbitres' case, he isn't the only one who faces the hardships that he has, and yet we have people who come off better and work through them and others who don't.
Those who generally make it through some of the toughest hardships, perhaps more than we can ever imagine, usually can because of another human being, sometimes 1, sometimes a few who give them the strength and support to get through, especially since we're typically our own worst enemy.

If making someone happy, spreads happiness, if positivism breeds positivism, if good springs more good, in a world that's full of pain and misery, how the hell can you say that people don't really care about people?
There are thousands of people who dedicate their lives to helping others, without wanting the fame and glory, just living for the very purpose of easing pain is enough.
Nothing more, nothing less and in that sense, there is more to humans than the fabric of 'carbon' that we're made of:
we're an amazing species and an incredibly stupid one at the same time.

We seek partners to share memories with and ideally share the burden of Life and carry on.
The fact that we're mortal, makes us appreciate what we can lose and even then sometimes death isn't enough, we forget and take things for granted, it depends.
"To experience pain is what allows us to learn and know how to be kind to each other."

But still, for a dating thread as well, I think we went over this before, the cynicism and sucking out hope regarding a subject where people wanna try and discuss and experiment and listen to experience to aid their own successful stories means most of us we gonna be encouraging and helpful and offer advice and gee *gasp*
Be positive.
So if negative and self-hating responses are 'clashing with our own', it's to do with that blanket you carry, not you. 6 billion (or more) sure as hell didn't adorn you with that blanket so you've no excuse to condemn the human race and the rest of us in it.

Realism for a negative situation (ie, it's a lesser chance of finding someone to accept me because of my socially deemed handicap) but pragmatically checking out your choices to help benefit oneself is fine. No need to flowery optimism and raising false hopes that serve to hurt, but condemning positivism and concern in itself with the blanket of self pity, cynicism and negativity that you carry is just poison...

Dating is a tricky thing, sometimes more a pain in the ass than usual but not limited to one style or pattern.
However we all agree that it takes:
- Some degree of confidence
- Courage
- Hope
And learning good communication

If the rest of us are trying and supporting and encouraging, even to those who are feeling emotionally suicidal, who sometimes just need someone to show them the other side of the coin, then who the hell does anyone have a right to belittle or nullify it...
Uuuuuugh, chou mukatsuku!

Makes me mad, I almost wanna grab Kaijo and Arbitres by their ears, slap them both silly with flesh eating piranahs (yes, so you feel some real pain) and then tell you two to get over yourselves, make the most of what you do enjoy and smile some more.
It's never as bad as you think it is.

Think I've graced here with my presence enough for now, back to the lurking bench for me, I note a few others have raised some new issues, so leaving it to that.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

I make the most out of my enjoyment pissing you off, Mystique-sama.

Ahh, anyways. My little involvement obviously caused very bad vibes for some people. I suppose that's the last time I give my honest opinion on something. Oh well... "malice, as n, the world over. "

No no, don't get us wrong and use that as an excuse to run away.
The replies after that, including my own, if you care to re-read them where still advisory towards you.
Yes, it fires up people, cause not many like to see a person destroy themselves in a cycle to extreme pity, it hurts to see sometimes but we still try to reach out a little.
So be as open as you like, just have the balls to deal with the reactions which should give you a hint as to what's going on objectively.
As long as you're not making excuses, slamming our opinions down and listen (doesnt mean you can accept or beleive it which is fine) but just give us the courtesy to listen and ponder, it's enough.
But to try to brush off our natural replies to your post as 'I tried but meh, I'm victim here see', some of us won't let you get away with that either.
If you truly didn't wanna hear anything and ask for some help or advice, you'd have not said a damn thing in the first place.

So work with us here
I said before and I'll say it again, engage in your hobbies, work on your skills and make yourself content or happy with what drives or motivates you and it'll naturally bring some good people to you just cause of your attitude and personality, no matter what handicap you have.
If you see past it, others will too.
Dark and broody scares most off, so the choice is yours.

@Kaijo: Beware of the flesh-eating piranhas. Crouch hidden pessimists, we sense a mystique.

lol, he doesn't care. He'd just say something typical like
"Meh, it'd hurt no more than the vicious rip of my still beating heart from the evil creature named... "woman".
..
Or something like it

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Is there any type of...chemical to make one impervious to the negative aspects of being single?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Hm, no fan of alcohol or any type of harmful drug.

I was thinking of something a long the lines of..like benedryl. Except for being single.

[RadiantBeam]

I've found that the best way I handled being single was to just spend lots of time with friends. Then again, I never saw being single as something that had a negative impact.

....

*flees from Ricky*

[hinakatbklyn]

There are advantages when it comes to being single or having someone to spend time with. There might be other ways to handle being single, but to spend time with friends, it can be tough if you either lost contact with those friends, or never had friends to begin with. (Any friends I made in High School and college, never really carried over except at work.)

[Kaijo]

Not going to respond to everything, in order to keep this short and try to keep it somewhat on topic.

Originally Posted by Mystique

We both have stated our points and the final line is, neither my beliefs or your beliefs become the be all and end all.

And yet, I fully acknowledged this already. My belief IS that things are always multiple ways. Some people do win the lottery, or find a get-rich quick scheme, and I'm not denying people those successes. But I'm not advocating someone bet their life on it, either. Using this analogy in the context of relationships (friend and otherwise) and dating.

There's being realistic and practical and scientific and whatnot and then there's being so damn pessimistic that it chokes the life and warmth outta living things that it's self destructive and razor sharp, it cuts. *shudders*

Then you're misreading me, plain and simple,and I don't think it's something you'll allow yourself to really understand. It's something I'm used to from people; they'd rather go with what they think, rather than honestly try to understand where another is coming from. And then you wonder why that might make someone a bit more pessimistic, when they are constantly confronted by people who don't seem to want to really understand?

I don't fit into your boxes. I don't have a neat little label you can pin on me. I'm actually quite happy with my life at the moment; I just have a low opinion of the human race in general. I control myself and my attitudes and emotions; I don't let others control those for me. And thus, my actions are based around that. I do what I want, same as everyone else, but I don't complain that someone makes me uncomfortable or mad, because I choose whether I want to feel that way. Allowing someone else to choose my emotions means I'm surrendering control, and I don't surrender control to anyone. I alone am the master of myself.

I choose to see things how they are, not how I wish them to be, and not tinting the picture brighter or darker than it is. To do so puts me in a disconnect from reality. That's my brand of "being realistic" and you can call it cynicism or pessimism if it makes you feel better, but I think I know myself a bit better than you do.

If making someone happy, spreads happiness, if positivism breeds positivism, if good springs more good, in a world that's full of pain and misery, how the hell can you say that people don't really care about people? [/quote]

I never said they did. I said they don't care about *me*. And that's fine; I don't expect people to, and I fully admit I'm a hard person to care about, but that's something I accept and am fine with. I don't expect someone to say, "I'll be your friend regardless of what happens or what you do, because that's what it truly means to care and to be a friend." Unconditional friendship and love. Instead, the friendship I've seen comes with a number of conditions and are very easily broken.

But still, for a dating thread as well, I think we went over this before, the cynicism and sucking out hope regarding a subject where people wanna try and discuss and experiment and listen to experience to aid their own successful stories means most of us we gonna be encouraging and helpful and offer advice and gee *gasp*
Be positive.

A LOT of advice I've offered here has been realistic. You, and many others, found it "well-grounded" which is what I aimed for. I go by my personal motto of "hope for the best, plan for the worst" but I honestly feel like no one here wants to consider the worst in order to plan for it. I call that being stupid, plain and simple. But nothing about my advice has changed. And no matter how much you wanna repeat "cynicism" and "pessimism" about me or my advice, it's not going to make it true. Sure, some people will believe anything if you repeat it enough, but that doesn't make it the truth.

So either believe what I'm telling you about myself, and prove me wrong, or continue to insist you know me better than I know myself, and thus prove me right.

If the rest of us are trying and supporting and encouraging, even to those who are feeling emotionally suicidal, who sometimes just need someone to show them the other side of the coin, then who the hell does anyone have a right to belittle or nullify it...

I am not belittling anyone. If anything, Myst, you're the one trying to nullify my viewpoint. I'm just giving my advice as is, from my own experiences, and people are welcome to listen to it or not. You can continue being the "good guy" and talk about flowery stuff all you like. If you wish, I can continue to be the "bad guy" and talk about the realistic and worst case scenarios, so people seeking advice can know the full range of possibilities and decide their actions accordingly.

Personally, I think someone getting the full range of possibilities is a good thing.

Makes me mad,

Well, sorry to say I don't get mad. I hope you get over it and learn to accept someone for who they are, rather than who you wish them to be (and the truth is you will claim you can't get over your issue, yet will expect someone else to "get over" their own issue). People like Arbitres and me are different than what you'd expect, and it's real telling of "friendship" that because we don't fit into the mold that is desired by this mini-society, that we are on the way to being undesirables. Of course, I expect this of humanity; this inability to accept someone for who they are. It's very realistic, at least.

In short, I can accept Arbitres for who he is, flaws and all. He's a decent guy, and has just happened to have committed the crime of thinking differently. If that's a problem for anyone, I suggest they go somewhere else and find a smaller exclusive group of like-minded people so they don't have to be exposed to different mindsets.

Or take some drugs.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

*points to the direction radiant fled* She went that way, Ricky.

Traitor! D:

Unhelpful advice (considering): Meet a girl playing a videogame. If that videogame has channels/local areas/etc then use those. Voice chat is good for several reasons. Since you are a videogamer, it would definitely be an ideal method.

Or maybe not? Oh well.

I can vouch for this. My friend met both her ex-boyfriend and her current boyfriend while playing games. They started out by chatting and worked their way up from there. So it can happen.

[Ricky Controversy]

@Kaijo and Arbitres: I don't really see how you guys 'think different', the vast majority of people I've ever known well are like you. You just have your own personal spins on the journey that led to your current situations, as everyone does. I disagree with you both often enough, but I love you as much as I love any other person, which is to say a lot, otherwise I'd ignore you guys. Nothing you can do will change that. *Hug*

But this is the last time we should discuss this here, because...

@Everyone: This thread keeps getting derailed into personal tracts! A little self-analysis can be helpful now and then when it comes to the topic of dating, but sweeping statements about who is or is not realistic/optimistic/pessimistic etc. have added absolutely nothing to this thread, and clearly wasted the time and energy of a number of parties. At one point or another, most of the major contributors to this thread, myself included, have played a part in getting things off track, so I'm not pointing fingers.

So, let's just keep this as closely to the core subject matter of dating as possible going forward, and keep your sense of self out of it. Try not to take issue with another's advice unless you think it's genuinely harmful, and if such a discussion emerges, let's all do our best to spare each other the personality commentary.

Can we all agree to that? Okay, good.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I've found that the best way I handled being single was to just spend lots of time with friends. Then again, I never saw being single as something that had a negative impact.

....

*flees from Ricky*

RAAAAAAGE wait no...

Frankly, I think this is the ideal attitude to have. A relationship shouldn't be something to cover some lack, but an enjoyable addition to an already full and healthy life. Those who enter into relationships to cover deficiencies usually end up becoming dependent, which causes a big mess.

@Nosferatu: If being single is getting you down, take up a hobby of some sort. Do something good for your mind and body. Being lonely is one thing, but if it becomes a general depression, you'll really start to feel the toll, and recovery will be harder.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

@Kaijo and Arbitres: I don't really see how you guys 'think different', the vast majority of people I've ever known well are like you. You just have your own personal spins on the journey that led to your current situations, as everyone does. I disagree with you both often enough, but I love you as much as I love any other person, which is to say a lot, otherwise I'd ignore you guys. Nothing you can do will change that. *Hug*

@Everyone: This thread keeps getting derailed into personal tracts! A little self-analysis can be helpful now and then when it comes to the topic of dating, but sweeping statements about who is or is not realistic/optimistic/pessimistic etc. have added absolutely nothing to this thread, and clearly wasted the time and energy of a number of parties. At one point or another, most of the major contributors to this thread, myself included, have played a part in getting things off track, so I'm not pointing fingers.

So, let's just keep this as closely to the core subject matter of dating as possible going forward, and keep your sense of self out of it. Try not to take issue with another's advice unless you think it's genuinely harmful, and if such a discussion emerges, let's all do our best to spare each other the personality commentary.

Can we all agree to that? Okay, good.



RAAAAAAGE wait no...

Frankly, I think this is the ideal attitude to have. A relationship shouldn't be something to cover some lack, but an enjoyable addition to an already full and healthy life. Those who enter into relationships to cover deficiencies usually end up becoming dependent, which causes a big mess.

@Nosferatu: If being single is getting you down, take up a hobby of some sort. Do something good for your mind and body. Being lonely is one thing, but if it becomes a general depression, you'll really start to feel the toll, and recovery will be harder.

Gundam 00 is my hobby. Hell it made me cope with my disastrous break up. I have numerous hobbies, but they only get you so far.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Gundam 00 is my hobby. Hell it made me cope with my disastrous break up. I have numerous hobbies, but they only get you so far.

Is that so? Perhaps you just haven't found the right hobby. All I can suggest is to keep trying new things, and maybe you'll stumble upon something that really draws you in completely.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

I could always go base jumping or something...

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

I could always go base jumping or something...

Um how 'bout something safer like roller bladeing, biking, or paintball? Don't get me wrong, if extreme sports are your bag go for it! Just wouldn't want to see ya get hurt by having that bungee cord snap on ya.@@
When I was still single I would always read or watch a movie. As long as in wasn't a romance!!
@Ricky, nicely put and KUDOS!

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

Um how 'bout something safer like roller bladeing, biking, or paintball? Don't get me wrong, if extreme sports are your bag go for it! Just wouldn't want to see ya get hurt by having that bungee cord snap on ya.@@
When I was still single I would always read or watch a movie. As long as in wasn't a romance!!
@Ricky, nicely put and KUDOS!

Mmmm, paintballing...I did that a few years back, loads of fun. Would love to give it a go again.

But you gotta admit, the thrill you'd get from base jumping would sure over power the feeling of being lonely.

A plan is forming.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

@Kaijo and Arbitres: I don't really see how you guys 'think different', the vast majority of people I've ever known well are like you. You just have your own personal spins on the journey that led to your current situations, as everyone does. I disagree with you both often enough, but I love you as much as I love any other person, which is to say a lot, otherwise I'd ignore you guys. Nothing you can do will change that. *Hug*

Heh, well, your opinion is certainly different than quite a few people here, but I'm willing to let it drop, as long as people are willing to stop going, "OMG there you go with the PESSIMISTIC viewpoint? WTF is wrong with you!? We don't want that kind of talk here!" (when the actual viewpoint is neither pessimistic nor cynical, but realistic and different)

Because that's pretty much how it starts. I'm willing to let this drop for now, and the next time someone pipes up with this (and don't kid yourself, someone will, I bet you), I'll try to keep a reply short. Maybe I"ll even save a link to this post, heh.

Back on topic, I've usually found that I meet and fall for someone specifically when I'm not looking for it. I suddenly find myself having a good time with a woman, and realize, "Hey, I'm beginning to like her." Whereas my attempts to outright look for it usually go nowhere fast.

Probably works differently for other people, but part of it is learning to be happy with who you are and where you are in life, because that is what attracts women. I've actually got a couple seemingly getting an interest in me now that I've given up the game again, but I think this time I'm gonna turn them down. I'm almost too happy with my life as is, to want to ruin it, heh.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

RAAAAAAGE wait no...

Frankly, I think this is the ideal attitude to have. A relationship shouldn't be something to cover some lack, but an enjoyable addition to an already full and healthy life. Those who enter into relationships to cover deficiencies usually end up becoming dependent, which causes a big mess.

Darn, I wanted to see what happened when you raged.

You'd be one of the few who thought I had a healthy mindset on it. For some reason my friends have always worried about the fact that I would go long periods as a single person, especially if they themselves were dating someone at the time. I guess they were just worried about me or something, though.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Mmmm, paintballing...I did that a few years back, loads of fun. Would love to give it a go again.

But you gotta admit, the thrill you'd get from base jumping would sure over power the feeling of being lonely.

A plan is forming.

The way you say that worries me.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Darn, I wanted to see what happened when you raged.

Good luck with that. XD

You'd be one of the few who thought I had a healthy mindset on it. For some reason my friends have always worried about the fact that I would go long periods as a single person, especially if they themselves were dating someone at the time. I guess they were just worried about me or something, though.

Eh, our culture places an inordinately high prestige on being in a relationship. But I've dated people who bought into that line of thinking and they really sucked the fun out of many things after the initial glow had faded for them. It's a relief to be with someone who doesn't need me, just wants me.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

The way you say that worries me.

Oh don't go worrying about me. Not sure if there is any type of base jumping in my area. Though I'm sure the Grand Canyon might be able to help me out.

[UltimaWolf]

I have a question. How long does it take for a person to be out of a relationship and into another without the second relationship being considered a 'rebound'? I'm sure it depends on the person, but any idea on how long you should wait?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by UltimaWolf

I have a question. How long does it take for a person to be out of a relationship and into another without the second relationship being considered a 'rebound'? I'm sure it depends on the person, but any idea on how long you should wait?

More than just time depends on it. Either party has to truly be over the one they were with.

However, if you're asking on just a time basis, I'd say a few months 3-5 maybe.