2008-10-09, 10:03
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Link #303 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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While SK initially may have had a more open ending in mind, that does not negate all the things which happened in episode 18-24 at all. Iīd rather think that he liked what he Mr. (?) Ohnogi doing, otherwise he wouldnīt let it have happened.
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2008-10-09, 13:03
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Link #304 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Just for reference Hiroshi Ohnogi is a Japanese screenwriter and novelist focusing on anime productions.
Ohnogi attended Keio University in the same years as mangaka Haruhiko Mikimoto and anime creator and designer Shoji Kawamori (I think they are friends). He has worked as scriptwriter in: SDF Macross Macross Zero RahXephon Aquarion Eureka Seven Noein Heat Guy J Arjuna Gundam (iīm not sure in which) He worked in the first Macross series and Macross Zero, he joined to the Macross Frontier staff in episode 18, some links: Hiroshi Ohnogi in Wikipedia Hiroshi Ohnogi in ANN
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2008-10-09, 13:31
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Link #305 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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2008-10-09, 16:48
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Link #306 |
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Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Ohnogi also worked on Gundam SEED and Destiny. Damn, how could I forget? This guy was the one who orchestrated the original triangle. In fact, its easy to tell their preferences. In Kawamori's traingle, its mostly two guys + a gal (Macross 7, Macross PLUS, Escaflowne), in Ohnogi's, its 2 gals + a guy.
But regardless, based on earlier interviews, Kawamori probably does not have complete execution powers over the project. Although I can tell the triangle was meant to be a by product, a meh, haha-there-goes thing, and should not have been taken seriously, at all. Thus explaining his surprise ending, which was planned eons in advance. Unfortunately for him, although the triangle started off as Marlboro Light, it gradually became Marlboro Red, and now a bloody Cuban Cigar. And who upset the status quo? Sheryl. - Tak
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2008-10-09, 17:09
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Link #307 | |
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from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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Anyway, it's nice to know that Kawamori received some help with Sheryl's character, because the results are worth it. Too bad no one bothered to help him out with Ranka, who seemed to stuck in her oniichan-longing from start to finish. The minute Brera appeared to Ranka, I was like "Oh wonderful..." while rolling my eyes. I started out with the series being neutral with regard to the two female leads. Sheryl started as an arrogant star who seems to think too much of herself, whereas Ranka started out as just another loli trying to vie for my attention with her cute looks. As the episodes rolled by, it was Sheryl's image who improved and got developed the most for me. |
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2008-10-09, 17:28
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Link #308 | ||
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Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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It also did not help when Sheryl not only shines as a character, but characters in association with her shine as well. Alto would have been a pretty dull character without Sheryl by his side, seriously. It would not be too far off to say that Sheryl indeed carried the show. - Tak
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2008-10-09, 18:06
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Link #311 | ||||||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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 It's not because Sheryl is more popular than Ranka that she carried the show... Minmei was popular too but look how it turned for her .... Ranka was popular too at the beginning, but later Sheryl took the lead... And if she carried the show, maybe you will be able to explain why her popularity raised significantly just, right after episode 18 when we knew she was going to die... So tsundere in action because of the sympathy feeling caused by the revelation of her death ?! She didn't have to do anything for it, sorry. In fact when I said that : Quote:
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That's actually what I wanted to point out. I already knew Yoshino had a big impact on Sheryl's growth in the show but didn't know, that Hiroshi Ohnogi too... It's clear Ranka was Kawamori's character since the beginning and Sheryl was just supposed to be the idol star. BUT : Quote:
I don't know how can people think Kawamori spended more time in Sheryl's character than Ranka ? !  Kawamori was the one who said " I wanted to make a story with Ranka , Alto and Brera the main character in a Love Triangle and Sheryl who was just supposed to be the model for Ranka " . Quote:
I really didn't know about Hiroshi Ohnogi and thought Yoshino Hiroyuki leaved more his traces in the story than the other one. Because people perfectly know even if some want to deny it, that Kawamori was invited to refocus the story around Ranka, Alto and Sheryl, it's not like he planned to do it since the beginning. Quote:
But I didn't know Kawamori mostly leaved the script from episode 18 to 24 ... Now, it becomes interesting  So it means that all those Sheryl dies and other stuff wasn't actually planned by him ... This makes a lot of sense when you think about it . I said it here, it was too abnormal to see how they announced Sheryl disease in the 18. And worst, that means that Sheryl's attitude in episode 1, very harsh and not lovable at all was Kawamori's work for Sheryl's character?! The part with the birthday present too ? Quote:
So he knew Hiroshi Ohnogi had his own vision of the story but let him , to surprise us all at the end. Now it's pretty clear that if from the 18 to 24 he wasn't in charge but he was for the final, it's clear that he didn't want Sheryl to win the triangle. This is pure logic. Quote:
I hope Ohnogi and Yoshino will take their holidays when they will make the movie
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2008-10-09, 18:21
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Link #312 |
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et tu, brute?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Perth WA
Age: 37
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so to sum it up, you want a more triangle related in the movie, not the "SK" related macross?
fine by me, i would love more LT than ever anyway and still i can't grasp your "LOGIC" that kawamori doesn't want sheryl to win, maybe the logic where he doesn't want both heroine to win would be better applied here, drop the shipping |
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2008-10-09, 18:31
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Link #313 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
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LOL. So much bitching about Sheryl in episode one. I thought she was the best character in that episode. Alto was just your boring typical mecha pilot. Ranka was the typical loli in distress. Sheryl had attitude and personality. While I wasn't really sure who I really liked (because it is only one episode and it's hard to judge a character on that), Sheryl had real potential at least. And then the episodes after that just proved that she was even better than I expected. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't that crazy about Sheryl in 18-24. I preferred her more when she didn't know she was dying. I still liked her in 18-24, but I prefer her when she is healthy and in her "I am Sheryl Nome" kick ass phase. Quote:
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2008-10-09, 18:33
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Link #314 | |
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from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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Like you said so yourself, that's what he wanted. That was the original plan, but things changed along the way. Did we even watch the same show? The whole Triangler OP has Sheryl and Ranka featured all over the place. As we also now know, Sheryl was given an extra push in terms of character development, thanks to other members of the staff. Kawamori green-lighted the move, and the result is what we have now. Frankly, I find that interesting... to think that they wanted to improve on such a character that ended up in fans growing to love said character even more. |
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2008-10-09, 18:56
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Link #315 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I think you are taking some things the wrong way Seifall.
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Maybe Kawamori wasnīt expecting Sheryl to be so popular but after reading the comments of the fans he even changed future episodes. And if you think that Kawamori spent more time developing Ranka you are wrong becuse he adimited that he developed Ranka the wrong way: Quote:
And with the love Triangle, he left it open because he thinks that choosing in a LT is a stereotype and because in episode 25 he did some things that he couldnīt in SDF Macross, because his original idea for SDF Macross ending was having Hikaru flying in his fan racer with Misa an Minmei walking and wathching him in other words leaving the triangle open. But check his opinion of episode 24: Quote:
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2008-10-09, 20:00
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Link #316 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Last edited by golthin; 2008-10-09 at 20:20. |
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2008-10-09, 20:44
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Link #317 | |||||||||||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Where did I say that ? Quote:
When did I say the contrary? I said he didn't want Sheryl to win, and not he wanted Ranka to win ... So it's not drop the shipping . Rather, shipping is a beautiful word I know, but you can drop it now  Quote:
Yes and Kawamori said he didn't know what to do with Sheryl anymore until the 18 when someone else took it over and decided to make her die.... And seriously, the final episode shows it pretty well... How they cured her .... It's clear they couldn't imagine something else since the concept of her dying by this disease was invented in a rushly way. I even still laugh of that scene when I remember of it Quote:
 So it was for you, without hope for Ranka since the beginning then.Quote:
So you saw it too... Her dying was too much on the story... So much that she was elevated in a role who had nothing to do with Kawamori's true intention from the very beginning. Quote:
It's just also logic that how they made Sheryl and Alto share more time together since 18 , Kawamori would have really ERASED all those times if Ranka would have win, so by the same the work of his colleagues Quote:
Even if Sheryl would not have that screentime in the serie but would have still being in the LT, they would have made the same OP . It's called an OP best selling. Seriously, can you imagine triangler with Brera Alto Ranka and for the music background " Kimi wa dare to kisu o suru" singed by two guys... I don't even want to think about it... Quote:
I find it pretty unfair for the one who was supposed to be the heroine on the show that's all. I think Kawamori should have kept his course of action, the story wouldn't have been that rushed towards the end. Quote:
The " and she will die " card was even among the japanese fan a sign of her, losing the LT since Alto learned it by Klan and before making his mind... Quote:
I remind him talking about the designer who did the dance for Ranka. That one said it's cute. Kawamori was there and the designer added " I'm not talking about Ranka but the dance"... It made Kawamori laugh.. He perfectly knew Ranka was like that and that was his intention since the beginning. What he didn't know was Sheryl might took Ranka's place among the viewers. He didn't know it and because of that was forced to change his script. But since he didn't have that closeness with Sheryl's character which wasn't mean to be more than an catalysis for Ranka's growth for him, he let others screenwriter to do it. That's why we saw Sheryl's come back in the 18 with Ranka's departure in the 21. Do you really think that if he wanted to developp Ranka's character , he would have made her quit the scene to show more of Sheryl's one in 3 episode ? And in the final episode when he is present; you can feel it since Ranka made her come back . And I don't know but it seems to me you just count Ohnogi as the screenwriter . But Yoshino is here too and he also took a big part in Sheryl's developpement in the main plot . So when you think about it, Kawamori may have began on the wrong foot with Ranka but I didn't saw that much doing,strain in Ranka's character when Orohni and Yoshino were at the controls from 18 to 24 . They didn't put as much as with Sheryl when it comes to real change in a character which could have make more people love Ranka. This is a fact here. Quote:
I think that's one of the reasons he choose to unresolve the triangle, but there are others which are closer to the real world than the one made of stereotype Quote:
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Really, IRC is the new fiber optic for this forum or what ?!
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2008-10-09, 20:59
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Link #319 |
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Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Sorry Seifail, but I highly suggest you read through the entire interview (in its original form if possible, if not, get a decent translation), before you go onto close yourself in a bubble of pretense again.
I think it is time you stop picking out parts you like, tie it into your failed logic and claim some sort of definite resolution. If I can accept the fact that Sheryl was later designed for the sake of the triangle, I don't see why you cannot accept what she had become. It was obvious that in the original interview, he had indicated a gradual shift of popularity concentrating on Sheryl, with fans feelings acting in correspondence to her well-being in the show. Moreover, regardless of what you think, his original intent of the triangle was designed to eventually reach the conclusion that became 25. So if you still think it was going to be a Ranka win, then you are simply being borderline delusional. Then again, we are used to that, aren't we? Just as his statement regarding 24 is concerned, fans adored that scene. Japanese fans go gaga over Sheryl & Alto as early as episode 5, with near climatic results in 22 and finally hitting it by 24. Face the facts, majority of Japanese fans prefer AxS and want to see more of it than the other way around. Its ok if you like Ranka, adore her, love her, whatever. But guess what, the rest of us (which is to say, most people), don't. - Tak
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2008-10-09, 21:00
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Link #320 | |
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LOL'ing at t3h old bags
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 35
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Hi first time poster!
I just finished watching the whole series but too lazy to post my final thoughts.  Kawamori's famitsu interview cleared up some of the things that didn't feel right to me. Overall, my impression is that Ranka was more the heroine than Sheryl. And the last 2 episodes neutralized the two girls' standing. On episodes where it was about Ranka, Sheryl didn't have much of a presence. I can't say the same for Ranka in Sheryl-centric episodes. The magazines was more about Ranka too. It was a little cruel for Kawamori to just give Sheryl's character to Ohnogi. He admitted it himself lmao And since Ranka is Kawamori's character, notice she cried like that in the roof and got all those hate as opposed to Sheryl. It wasn't Kawamori who was playing her. It may had something to do with Ohnogi writing the script. My impression was that even if Ranka is Kawamori's main character, he will still leave the love triangle open at the very end. Even if it were Brera-Ranka-Alto, it will be an open ending. It may be the reason why Kawamori left things to Ohnogi to work on Sheryl's character because he has no idea reserved for her The story has to make sense to get to that open ending, that's why Ranka had to leave and Sheryl was given more screentime later on and became another little queen.I didn't mind the final results even if epi 25 did look weird to me when Alto suddenly declared that both girls were his wings. Ranka declaring that it was because of Sheryl that she flew. The scene looked more like an encouragement from Ranka and Alto to Sheryl who had accepted that there was nothing left for her anymore. Still there was some truth to that. The relationship that Kawamori built between Alto and Ranka in the first 17 episodes weren't put to waste since Ohnogi never ruined it in expense of developing Sheryl's character. IMO Ohnogi brought more color in the story by integrating Sheryl's character into Alto and Ranka's relationship. Shery's character became deeper angsting over the fact that Alto loved Ranka and coming to accept that in 24. Sheryl's monologue at the bridge deserved a medal. And of course the highlight of the last episode for me is not the medley. It's Maaya Sakamoto's AIMO. Is Kawamori a misa or minmei fan? Bilrer's locket of minmei was random. Absolutely random. It has no significance in what happened in 25 and in 24. What is Kawamori's thoughts on that? Quote:
Don't underestimate Ranka fans in Japan. There was an explosion of Ranka's popularity with キラッ☆. Till now. Alto's popular too. Sheryl fans maybe majority here but not in Japan Both girls are really popular so not that it matters.
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