(L) 5-Toubun no Hanayome

[devil_slayer]

He still has few chapters, maybe he can do some damage control. I like Yostuba but I agree that Fuutarou's reasoning were kinda meh.

Youstuba had the least development out of them all and still swept him for herself. It's really hilarious when you sit and think of how much BS the eldest 3 sisters went through and how they fought amongst each other only for the most unexpected one to take him away, she didn't even try to make him fall for her and she didn't even use her "childhood promise" card and she still won anyway lol.

I am aware of all the rectons and inconsistency Negi made but I never took the writing in a romcom seriously so eh...

[Marcus H.]

To those who doubted that a bait and switch never happened: it already did. The whole Yotsuba flashback arc before the Last Festival Arc was the switch, and the story before that was the bait.

Also, we got fooled spectacularly when we got set up several clues from the past about who the bride is, only for Negi to not only tell us that Fuutarou doesn't care about the distant past anymore, but also to make Chapters 87-90. So much for the mystery then. Most of the clues were set aside, and in the case of the Bell Kisser, retconned outright. Another embarrassing irony here is that Fuutarou said that "he will move on from the past", only to later tell Yotsuba that he is indebted for that fateful meeting in the shrine.*

* - This is me implying that the "stumbling" was him being a delinquent as Kintarou and the shrine prayer with Kyoto Girl as the one that set him on track as the studious guy we all know. Aside from his moments of "necessary complex", I didn't see a substantial time when he actually stumbled.

[Endless_Despair]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Fact is, he took Yotsuba's confession seriously, despite the narration and it was in his mind all along.

Any teenager boy in his shoes is going to be stunned when they're confessed in that way, especially if its there first one and as I've already said, that was a retrospect vision. That specific confession hasn't been on his mind the whole time. From Fuu's pov, I don't believe this has been brought up once since this chapter. It was nothing more than one of the memories that was reminisced of the times he had spent together with Yotsuba.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Fact is, in Chapter 81 when he was talking with Yotsuba on the bus about making a choice, it's clear that he was already planned to choose her if the time ever comes. It was over pretty early on, and it all thanks to Yotsuba being the first to accept him thanks to their past. That's all about it.

Its clear? As even Devil_Slayer said on the previous page because Negi wanted to keep the winner's identity hidden so badly, he left Fuutarou's feelings towards any of the Quints vague. Because of this, there's no evidence of Fuutarou having feelings specifically for any of the Quints prior to the recent chapters and regardless of who was chosen, this was going to be a problem.

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

Everyone is being so negative here. What would have been a better option?

Just look at the poll here. Not many were rooting for Yotsuba to win so its understandable that a lot of people on here are going to be disappointed their favourite didn't win. Personally I believed Yotsuba was the actual best choice to win the Fuubowl. I'm not really much into the whole "Whoever tries the hardest to win MC's affection should be the winner" rhetoric. Although I wouldn't have minded any of them winning except perhaps Itsuki. Though I can't deny that there are still problems with the way its been handled so far, I wouldn't go as far as to say the entire story or its characters have been ruined because of it.

[Chosen_Hero]

^They do say that ignorance is bliss.

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

Everyone is being so negative here. What would have been a better option? Nino? Because I really can't think of any other realistic option here.

No one likes Ichika.

Miku's character arc has been building toward her moving from Fuutarou for a while now.

Itsuki doesn't even love him.

I agree that Yustuba was on the sidelines for far too long and having Fuutarou pick her is spite in the face of the other 3 who been fighting over him like cats but any option would have caused a meltdown.

I think the reason why the decision feels so sudden and undeveloped is that the author never lets us dive into Fuutarou's mind and see for ourselves what he thinks of or knows what he feels. The author brought himself to the corner with how he made Fuutarou a shallow of an MC just to keep the mystery going. Not once did Fuutarou's interaction with Youtuba give us the immersion that he fell for her, but the same can be said about the other 4 sisters really. Nino and Nino 2.0 "Miku" were harassing him for a while now but not once did he ever think of returning their feelings, everything is so vague and misleading on a purpose just keep the mystery going

How about any of the three that actually got developed and moved the story along? With things how they are Nino WOULD have been a better choice, at least she did something.

People like Ichika, if anything it more disappointment than anything else, they just dropped her as a choice after her character suicide.

Where the hell did you get that Miku's arc was about building her away from him? If anything that is what Yotsuba's arc needed to be. Miku's was about improving herself for herself and so that Fuutarou would notice her. But of course Negi clearly had it against her since she became extremely popular and messed with her character at every turn even when it made no sense.

Itsuki wasn't even in the competition.

Picking Yotsuba was the cowards choice, plain and simple. A good writer would have made the hard choice and picked one of the characters that actually were developed no matter which fandom got mad in the end. A good writer would not need to retcon past events, ignore facts that they themselves wrote or rely on pure bs to force the choice into the character he wanted to win no matter what. A good writer would have properly developed said character well before this point to the the extent where there would be no arguing against said choice. A good writer that already had a character in mind would not have strung along the characters and fans with false hope while doing literally nothing with his chosen character, they would have made a story worthy of said character.

The reason it feels so sudden and like pure bs is because Negi chose to retcon past events that were shown as important for another character to be about Yotsuba all along. Another reason is that he had Fuutatou literally give up on everything he was doing about finding the bell kisser, which in and of itself was yet another thing that completely invalidated Scrambled Eggs literally out of nowhere at the time.

But of course, Bell Kisser as much bs as it was tied back into Scrambled Eggs and since the resolution that we were shown and that was mentioned after the fact by Fuutarou himself to that arc wasn't about Yotsuba, of course that meant it needed to conveniently disappear for these last two chapters (even though that was the same day Miku actively kissed him while he was awake unlike Yotsuba) without any sort of resolution until AFTER the choice was forced so that it could conveniently tie back to Yotsuba.

Negi himself doesn't realize that having Fuutarou apparently noticing Yotsuba's nothing while ignoring the big threes efforts made Fuutarou come off as a massive asshole. The Fuutarou from this arc is not the same as the one that just before this arc was actually thinking about properly answering each of the girl that were serious. But of course, since Yotsuba never really confessed and the one time she kind of did was played off as a joke by herself that meant that we can't have Fuutarou actually give proper replies that did it seriously since the scales were clearly in favor of someone other than Yotsuba.

So of course the only option left was to forgo any if that and just have the girls (for some fucking reason) force Fuutarou to make a choice where the others don't get their own replies and the older thre are okay with it because... Reasons. But of course, Yotsuba now gets to be a part of it even if she didn't do anything because.... Even more reasons, I guess. Also, somehow Itsuki was one of the choices?????????what?

We didn't need to see into Fuutarou's mind, we were already seeing things from his perspective, we saw what he saw and knew what he knew, but apparently he ignored everything just because Yotsuba helped him... What????

Does anyone else remember how her being overly helpful to people was clearly bad for her and got her into trouble to the point that just recently she ended up in the hospital because of it? Apparently, according to Negi, not only did that get Fuutarou hot and bothered, BUT, it also was meant to be foreshadowing all along... somehow.

Nino and Miku were not "harassing" Fuutarou, they were flirting with him which is what you do with someone you like and want then to notice you and Fuutarou clearly noticed that they were and seemed to like it (it's not like he had a face of disgust when they did it) but according to Negi, anytime Fuutarou blushed he was actually ignoring them because Yotsuba had already won.

Anyone else remember how just a few hours before the choice Fuutarou was making out with Miku on the roof top? Apparently according to Negi the face he made and all the blushing was one of indifference and disgust because Yotsuba had already won.

Negi ruined Fuutarou and Yotsuba quite literally won by being in the sidelines, plain and simple.

Negi DID corner himself that is why this entire arc makes no sense when you go back and re-read it, rushed plot points that should have been their own arcs like the real dad stuff, dropped plot points like the search for the bell kisser, the Yotsuba pity party being even more obvious, the rushed flashback that Negi wants us to believe was supposed to be enough to development for Yotsuba to surpass the others, Fuutarou literally becoming an entirely different character with different memories in these last few chapters while forgetting and ignoring everything that has happened so far except Yotsuba supporting him, etc. This is bad writing of the worst kind, Negi would rather sacrifice logic, consistency, the fanbases respect, any respect he had as a mangaka/writer, than to have Yotsuba lose.

Call me a fanboy, call me salty, call me whatever you want, I don't care, this kind of writing should not be respected or accepted, especially not the kind that insults the readers intelligence like this just did.

-----------

Usually I am the kind of person that is fully and wholeheartedly against fan backlash, is the one to chastise those that go too far in their criticism of a writer and I abhor death threats, but this time I will do as Negi did to the writing in this manga and ignore anything I hear about it. I won't say he deserves it (no one deserves to have death threats thrown at them) or join in on it, but I will not fault anyone that does so either that feels like they were insulted after they supported this manga for so long, especially those that actually bought the manga with the promise of a proper story and got this shit in the end.

P.S. I also fault the editor, how the hell did THIS kind of writing get by him/her? Are they not supposed to be there to get the mangakas/writers to writer and finish their stories properly? Did they not realize that not only is their fanbase not retarded but also how this could potentially tank their sales? Did they learn nothing from past mangaka's that did this same exact thing that ended up disappearing from the industry or that never got another manga to hit just because of their name having been dragged through the mud?

[wuhugm]

^In romcom, girl with more development loses~

Itsuki lost is already very good conclusion, since in Japan nobody really believe main heroine will lose (despite she was not even in the game)
Hope this trend continues

[shanimebib]

^so that you can start hating every girl bar the main heroine?

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^In romcom, girl with more development loses~

Itsuki lost is already very good conclusion, since in Japan nobody really believe main heroine will lose (despite she was not even in the game)
Hope this trend continues

I doubt this will change the perception.

Yotsuba victory basically fall to "destined girl" trope, which associated with main heroine as well.
Ironically, you can swap Itsuki and Yotsuba relevance as first girl and past girl, and you will see not much changed whoever took the role between them.

If you truly wanted real impact, it should be Ichika (who already branded as traitor among quintuplets) or Miku (well-known favorites with a lot of character development that you fully aware will lose no matter how good the character development).

[usspaul]

honestly i wouldnt be so mad if any of ichika nino miku won. as those 3 got some actual development throughout the story for better or worse. Yeah ichika character sucided but you could have fixed that with more chapters and be more believeable then anything from yots and itsuki. Hell in this case itsuki had more development then yots and some how because she was past girl sits on her ass all the time doing her own thing in the background with all the other clubs. To the point it was mention many times she needs to cut back on that because shes just overworking herself and not focusing on things that are important like keeping her grades up. but what ever shit manga is shit manga. The only thing good is the art was nice

[elior]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^They do say that ignorance is bliss.



How about any of the three that actually got developed and moved the story along? With things how they are Nino WOULD have been a better choice, at least she did something.

People like Ichika, if anything it more disappointment than anything else, they just dropped her as a choice after her character suicide.

Where the hell did you get that Miku's arc was about building her away from him? If anything that is what Yotsuba's arc needed to be. Miku's was about improving herself for herself and so that Fuutarou would notice her. But of course Negi clearly had it against her since she became extremely popular and messed with her character at every turn even when it made no sense.

Itsuki wasn't even in the competition.

Picking Yotsuba was the cowards choice, plain and simple. A good writer would have made the hard choice and picked one of the characters that actually were developed no matter which fandom got mad in the end. A good writer would not need to retcon past events, ignore facts that they themselves wrote or rely on pure bs to force the choice into the character he wanted to win no matter what. A good writer would have properly developed said character well before this point to the the extent where there would be no arguing against said choice. A good writer that already had a character in mind would not have strung along the characters and fans with false hope while doing literally nothing with his chosen character, they would have made a story worthy of said character.

The reason it feels so sudden and like pure bs is because Negi chose to retcon past events that were shown as important for another character to be about Yotsuba all along. Another reason is that he had Fuutatou literally give up on everything he was doing about finding the bell kisser, which in and of itself was yet another thing that completely invalidated Scrambled Eggs literally out of nowhere at the time.

But of course, Bell Kisser as much bs as it was tied back into Scrambled Eggs and since the resolution that we were shown and that was mentioned after the fact by Fuutarou himself to that arc wasn't about Yotsuba, of course that meant it needed to conveniently disappear for these last two chapters (even though that was the same day Miku actively kissed him while he was awake unlike Yotsuba) without any sort of resolution until AFTER the choice was forced so that it could conveniently tie back to Yotsuba.

Negi himself doesn't realize that having Fuutarou apparently noticing Yotsuba's nothing while ignoring the big threes efforts made Fuutarou come off as a massive asshole. The Fuutarou from this arc is not the same as the one that just before this arc was actually thinking about properly answering each of the girl that were serious. But of course, since Yotsuba never really confessed and the one time she kind of did was played off as a joke by herself that meant that we can't have Fuutarou actually give proper replies that did it seriously since the scales were clearly in favor of someone other than Yotsuba.

So of course the only option left was to forgo any if that and just have the girls (for some fucking reason) force Fuutarou to make a choice where the others don't get their own replies and the older thre are okay with it because... Reasons. But of course, Yotsuba now gets to be a part of it even if she didn't do anything because.... Even more reasons, I guess. Also, somehow Itsuki was one of the choices?????????what?

We didn't need to see into Fuutarou's mind, we were already seeing things from his perspective, we saw what he saw and knew what he knew, but apparently he ignored everything just because Yotsuba helped him... What????

Does anyone else remember how her being overly helpful to people was clearly bad for her and got her into trouble to the point that just recently she ended up in the hospital because of it? Apparently, according to Negi, not only did that get Fuutarou hot and bothered, BUT, it also was meant to be foreshadowing all along... somehow.

Nino and Miku were not "harassing" Fuutarou, they were flirting with him which is what you do with someone you like and want then to notice you and Fuutarou clearly noticed that they were and seemed to like it (it's not like he had a face of disgust when they did it) but according to Negi, anytime Fuutarou blushed he was actually ignoring them because Yotsuba had already won.

Anyone else remember how just a few hours before the choice Fuutarou was making out with Miku on the roof top? Apparently according to Negi the face he made and all the blushing was one of indifference and disgust because Yotsuba had already won.

Negi ruined Fuutarou and Yotsuba quite literally won by being in the sidelines, plain and simple.

Negi DID corner himself that is why this entire arc makes no sense when you go back and re-read it, rushed plot points that should have been their own arcs like the real dad stuff, dropped plot points like the search for the bell kisser, the Yotsuba pity party being even more obvious, the rushed flashback that Negi wants us to believe was supposed to be enough to development for Yotsuba to surpass the others, Fuutarou literally becoming an entirely different character with different memories in these last few chapters while forgetting and ignoring everything that has happened so far except Yotsuba supporting him, etc. This is bad writing of the worst kind, Negi would rather sacrifice logic, consistency, the fanbases respect, any respect he had as a mangaka/writer, than to have Yotsuba lose.

Call me a fanboy, call me salty, call me whatever you want, I don't care, this kind of writing should not be respected or accepted, especially not the kind that insults the readers intelligence like this just did.

-----------

Usually I am the kind of person that is fully and wholeheartedly against fan backlash, is the one to chastise those that go too far in their criticism of a writer and I abhor death threats, but this time I will do as Negi did to the writing in this manga and ignore anything I hear about it. I won't say he deserves it (no one deserves to have death threats thrown at them) or join in on it, but I will not fault anyone that does so either that feels like they were insulted after they supported this manga for so long, especially those that actually bought the manga with the promise of a proper story and got this shit in the end.

P.S. I also fault the editor, how the hell did THIS kind of writing get by him/her? Are they not supposed to be there to get the mangakas/writers to writer and finish their stories properly? Did they not realize that not only is their fanbase not retarded but also how this could potentially tank their sales? Did they learn nothing from past mangaka's that did this same exact thing that ended up disappearing from the industry or that never got another manga to hit just because of their name having been dragged through the mud?

i will make it short and simple.the only thing that yitsuba did to him in the entire manga is support him and be by his side. This is what it feels here as well he said it himself that he wants her ti be by his side and support him in this chapter. That my reason for not calling it love

[elior]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

It's not that they were thinking she will be chosen. They were afraid it would be the case as in worst possible scenario. It's more about general cynism then actual reasons or authors intent.

To be fair Negi not being exactly stelar writter could intend make Itsuki clear favourite and use her as bait and just failed like he did with many other part of story, but... come on... give him at least bit of benefit of doubt. This is one of very few instances where it's still possible.



Which never stopped her from trying...

to put it simple for me it not love. Yotsuba always supported him and been by his side and he wants it to continue. He even said on this chapter himself that he wants her always to stay by his side and support him

[RRW]

Originally Posted by elior

to put it simple for me it not love. Yotsuba always supported him and been by his side and he wants it to continue. He even said on this chapter himself that he wants her always to stay by his side and support him

So your interpretation is that after all that chase and determination. He just friendzone her?

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

Everyone is being so negative here. What would have been a better option? Nino? Because I really can't think of any other realistic option here.

No one likes Ichika.

Miku's character arc has been building toward her moving from Fuutarou for a while now.

Itsuki doesn't even love him.

I agree that Yustuba was on the sidelines for far too long and having Fuutarou pick her is spite in the face of the other 3 who been fighting over him like cats but any option would have caused a meltdown.

I think the reason why the decision feels so sudden and undeveloped is that the author never lets us dive into Fuutarou's mind and see for ourselves what he thinks of or knows what he feels. The author brought himself to the corner with how he made Fuutarou a shallow of an MC just to keep the mystery going. Not once did Fuutarou's interaction with Youtuba give us the immersion that he fell for her, but the same can be said about the other 4 sisters really. Nino and Nino 2.0 "Miku" were harassing him for a while now but not once did he ever think of returning their feelings, everything is so vague and misleading on a purpose just keep the mystery going

The way Negi wrote the story, none of them would have really be a better option. Ichika ruined herself by becoming a villain. Itsuki if chosen would have les to a similar situation as Yotsuba. Nino and Miku would have required a similar amount of explanation to why suddenly changed his mind after not accepting their confessions.

[RRW]

Images

you're finally looking my way

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[elior]

Originally Posted by RRW

So your interpretation is that after all that chase and determination. He just friendzone her?

this is exactly what I think. all their interactions during the entire manga was simply supporting and stay by his side this was all to it in yotsuba case

[devil_slayer]

Originally Posted by Lex79

The way Negi wrote the story, none of them would have really be a better option. Ichika ruined herself by becoming a villain. Itsuki if chosen would have les to a similar situation as Yotsuba. Nino and Miku would have required a similar amount of explanation to why suddenly changed his mind after not accepting their confessions.

Very true. I agree none of the sisters would would had made more sense because there was absolutely no development on Fuu's side.

Yotsuba still feels like the safest option though, everywhere I go people are like: "yay second best girl won!"

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by Lex79

The way Negi wrote the story, none of them would have really be a better option. Ichika ruined herself by becoming a villain. Itsuki if chosen would have les to a similar situation as Yotsuba. Nino and Miku would have required a similar amount of explanation to why suddenly changed his mind after not accepting their confessions.

I already answered this one. Chapter 61 and Chapter 99 talks about how it takes a huge amount of courage to change the status quo and Fuutarou also liked the six of them hanging around together. The bullshit part is the whole message fuck up. Miku said it's Fuutarou turn next (to answer). She never said Fuutarou has to do it ASAP, but somehow Fuutarou gathering everyone in the classroom by an accidental group message during the festival and all of the other inconsistensies were in Yotsuba's favor all along. If Fuutarou were to pick Nino and Miku, both would have a more compelling moments worth remembering throughout the story, where it would have clicked with the readers way more easily. Nino saving him multiple times, both saving each others lifes and their "accident/grab on" moments, handling Papa Nakano, the whole confidence, overcoming your weaknesses tour with Miku, how she broke out of her shell and was the biggest help to the studuous Fuutarou in the study sessions throughout the manga.

And I keep saying that those highlighted events with Yotsuba are weak. Chapter 4 and Chaper 13 are the same, but Yotsuba counts, Miku doesn't. If Yotsuba was capable enough to turn down the basketball club, then how come she couldn't do the same in Seven Goodbyes with the track team, essentially doing the same mistake as in the past? Somehow this was a positive memory for Fuutarou, but Miku getting a thanks for being a major help in solving the conflict in that arc? Doesn't happen. Even Ichika got her thanks later. Miku trying to break out of the student zone somehow made her lose, but if she were the same character as in the first 30 chapters, the result would have been the same. The resolution is that only Yotsuba's martyr support counted for Fuutarou, even though he said multiple times that what Yotsuba is doing is wrong, she is obsessed. It's even more ridiculous with Chapter 29 and Chapter 31. Fuutarou got a cold, so he wants to rest, leave him alone. Yotsuba drags him out to ski, shitting on his wish. He doesn't care about skiing at all, he is not having fun, just wants to explain the Ichika shed incident to Miku and Itsuki. Two chapters later in Fuutarou's notes, it's revealed he was looking forward to getting taught skiing by Yotsuba. It's like Negi vindicates everything that Yotsuba is doing, even if he has to change Fuutarou's behavior and toughts completely in hindsight, even with using retcons.

[elior]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

I already answered this one. Chapter 61 and Chapter 99 talks about how it takes a huge amount of courage to change the status quo and Fuutarou also liked the six of them hanging around together. The bullshit part is the whole message fuck up. Miku said it's Fuutarou turn next (to answer). She never said Fuutarou has to do it ASAP, but somehow Fuutarou gathering everyone in the classroom by an accidental group message during the festival and all of the other inconsistensies were in Yotsuba's favor all along. If Fuutarou were to pick Nino and Miku, both would have a more compelling moments worth remembering throughout the story, where it would have clicked with the readers way more easily.

And I keep saying that those highlighted events with Yotsuba are weak. Chapter 4 and Chaper 13 are the same, but Yotsuba counts, Miku doesn't. If Yotsuba was capable enough to turn down the basketball club, then how come she couldn't do the same in Seven Goodbyes with the track team, essentially doing the same mistake as in the past? Somehow this was a positive memory for Fuutarou, but Miku getting a thanks for being a major help in solving the conflict in that arc? Doesn't happen. Even Ichika got her thanks later. Miku trying to break out of the student zone somehow made her lose, but if she were the same character as in the first 30 chapters, the result would have been the same. The resolution is that only Yotsuba's martyr support counted for Fuutarou, even though he said multiple times that what Yotsuba is doing is wrong, she is obsessed. It's even more ridiculous with Chapter 29 and Chapter 31. Fuutarou got a cold, so he wants to rest, leave him alone. Yotsuba drags him out to ski, shititng on his wish. He doesn't care about skiing at all, he is not having fun, just wants to explain the Ichika shed incident to Miku and Itsuki. Two chapters later in Fuutarou's notes, it's revealed he was looking forward to getting taught skiing by Yotsuba. It's like Negi vindicates everything that Yotsuba is doing, even if he has to change Fuutarou's behavior and toughts completely in hindsight, even with using retcons.

even with all her flaws I think out of all the quints yotsuba was the most supportive in the entire manga. the others didn't felt supportive in such a way. it not love at all for me based on that he even stated in this episode that she always did this and wanted that she will keep doing that and stay by his side

[WingedAccelerator]

It's codependenyy indeed, especially with Fuutarou's confession speech. If he can't help a girl all the time, his existence is questioned. If the girl can stand on her own, she is not a candidate in his eyes. I thought at least he understands that there is nothing wrong with not needing help all the time, but guess I was wrong.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Lex79

The way Negi wrote the story, none of them would have really be a better option. Ichika ruined herself by becoming a villain. Itsuki if chosen would have les to a similar situation as Yotsuba. Nino and Miku would have required a similar amount of explanation to why suddenly changed his mind after not accepting their confessions.

No, all he had to do was reply to Nino and Miku because he never turned them down, not once, all that happened was that Nino told him that she didn't need to hear his reply yet and Miku just told him that it's his turn to reply to them, you are literally making up things that never happened.

Have you not noticed that all you Yotsuba defenders can do to excuse this is to make stuff up, and flip flop from "but support though" and "well she was the safe girl so it's ok"? That alone says a lot about how badly Yotsuba was handled.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

No, all he had to do was reply to Nino and Miku because he never turned them down, not once, all that happened was that Nino told him that she didn't need to hear his reply yet and Miku just told him that it's his turn to reply to them, you are literally making up things that never happened.

The implication he wasn't going to accept their confessions is pretty clear.