Psycho-Pass 2 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[AkumaPrincess]

I really wish that this season was in the twenty something episode count. They would've had more time to flesh out the plot instead of condensing it to 11 episodes. The season started off interesting, but had no idea what direction it was going.

Flashbacks (surprisingly) would've fleshed out a lot of character issues. Like a flashback of Mika after her friend died to becoming an Inspector working under Akane. Or how Kamui managed to infiltrate all of these places with Holos and falsely making Psycho Pass (since he was the therapist that Ginoza saw).

Hell, even more on Tougane and how his CC raised after supposedly being the first CA person and him raising the Psycho Pass's of the other inspectors that he worked with.

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by Kanon

There we have it. Sybil earnestly wanted to stop Kamui because they're scared of him and never had any kind of master plan for him or Akane. They just wanted to get rid of both and chose the most roundabout way possible to do it. The only reason they acted so stupid all season (or rather, not acted) was because the plot required it or else the show would have been over in five episodes. Plot induced stupidity at its finest. For weeks me and others have argued against people who kept claiming Sibyl couldn't do anything because it would compromise the system, even when we provided solutions that would only barely bend the rules, and now we see them giving inspectors illegal bombs so that they can kill 500 hundreds innocent people with the justification that "they must be latent criminals by now" (in short, they have no fucking clue) which is a clear violation of everything Sibyl stands for and a clear admission the system doesn't work. I genuinely wonder what these same people think of this development. This entire episode spit in the face of all their arguments. None of them stand anymore.

Well, Sybil system never wanted to get rid of Akane, at least yet. Ms Togane wants to get rid of her because she knows too much of her business and also her son has a personal reason to do it as well, and Akane killing Kamui would be the best outcome for both.

From almost the beggining Sybil could do something. The reason of not acting was a mild interest on what Kamui was doing and also how their human department could cope with it .

When Kamui started the final part of his plan Sybil just entered on damage control mode to get rid of Kamui one way or another. This follows the Sybil character on which will sacrifice hundreds of inocents just to get another brain, or in this case protect the Sybil society from Kamui

[White Manju Bun]

Ok well this episode was better as a whole since it concentrated more on Akane. Writing was better.

I still dont quite buy Kamui's plan and Sybl's issues but at least it was explained better in this.

Honestly if this season was just about Togane trying to paint Akane black I think I would have enjoyed it more.

[JiCi]

Oh for God's sake...

Spoiler for someone:

Kogami! Just show yourself to Akane already!

Dude's not dead, but for SOME reason, he's missing in action... despite having a system that can track an Enforcer's every single move.

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by JiCi

Oh for God's sake...

Spoiler for someone:

Kogami! Just show yourself to Akane already!

Dude's not dead, but for SOME reason, he's missing in action... despite having a system that can track an Enforcer's every single move.

Its implied that Kougami

Spoiler:

Left the country to run from Sybil society

Plus as much as i like Kougami i dont want him to be the solution to everything let Akane & Co shine, instead of having a big character rooster full of useless people aside Kougami

[pampz21]

How sweet of Akane; always thinking of Kougami~!

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Well, Sybil system never wanted to get rid of Akane, at least yet. Ms Togane wants to get rid of her because she knows too much of her business and also her son has a personal reason to do it as well, and Akane killing Kamui would be the best outcome for both.

They've wanted to get rid of her since the start. That was the reason Togane was added to her team. His job was always to "paint her black" so they could rightfully kill her like the previous inspectors that worked with Togane. She's too headstrong and that's a problem for them. They want obedient inspectors who blindly follow the rules like Mika instead.

From almost the beggining Sybil could do something. The reason of not acting was a mild interest on what Kamui was doing and also how their human department could cope with it .

I really don't buy that. They made it clear weeks ago they wanted Kamui dead as soon as possible and that they were afraid of his existence. There was no reason for them not to do anything and lose so many enforcers and inspectors to him. Not to mention causing raising area stress everywhere.

What really bothers me about this season's plot is that it revolves entirely around Kamui, and that Kamui's plan is based on the assumption Sibyl is not going to do anything to stop him. If they had lifted so much as one finger, his plan would have gone up in smoke. It was as simple as disabling the dominators Kamui had stolen, which they didn't even do in this episode, preferring to use a far FAR worse method that ended up backfiring on them
The only reason Kamui was ever a threat is because Sibyl is incompetent and/or dumb. Before, people could counter that claim by saying they're tied up by their own rules (though I'm not sure how revoking the rights of an inspector who hadn't shown up at work for weeks and whose access to the dominators had clearly been "hacked" is breaking the rules), but that argument doesn't work anymore after when they did in this ep. Using bombs to kill Kamui is worse than any of the solutions we had ever suggested.

[Geburah]

Remember that they have MANY chances to get rid of her or simply demote her. Mika tried to put Akane behavior to shame and Kasai chief mocked her saying that "she will be eaten alive"

[Haruyasha]

Eh, another continuity issue ... Writers don't seem to be paying attention.

Dominators use satellite, but they're shooting those things underground. As demonstrated in season 1 on numerous occasion, it doesn't work that way.

[Kanon]

Any predictions for the last episode? I'm still convinced they're going to remove any trace of the second season for the movie. So basically:

Togane gets killed by Kamui.
Kamui gets killed by Sibyl/Kasei.
Sho gets killed by Shisui.
Shisui gets killed by Gino.
Misako also gets killed somehow, or simply removed from the system.
Kogami cameo at the very end to tease the movie.

That's about it. Not sure what they're going to do with Mika. She'll probably recover somehow.

[Jagger]

This season feels really random to me. There's this random shit happening, and these random characters, and who the fuck knows who the bad guys are, and even though Akane is the main character I have no idea what she's thinking, and hues? What the hell do hues even mean.

They were probably shooting for ambiguity but it just feels like a random hot mess of a story to me. If the second season isn't canon it would explain a little bit of it, but still what a waste of resources.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Haruyasha

Eh, another continuity issue ... Writers don't seem to be paying attention.

Dominators use satellite, but they're shooting those things underground. As demonstrated in season 1 on numerous occasion, it doesn't work that way.

Eh, didn't Kougami use one in an remote underground area when he was fighting that old man cyborg and his two hunting dogs back in S1?

[Geburah]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Eh, didn't Kougami use one in an remote underground area when he was fighting that old man cyborg and his two hunting dogs back in S1?

Yes but they had to use a direct conection interface since normal signal was out of range

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The only reason they acted so stupid all season (or rather, not acted) was because the plot required it or else the show would have been over in five episodes. Plot induced stupidity at its finest. For weeks me and others have argued against people who kept claiming Sibyl couldn't do anything because it would compromise the system, even when we provided solutions that would only barely bend the rules, and now we see them giving inspectors illegal bombs so that they can kill 500 hundreds innocent people with the justification that "they must be latent criminals by now" (in short, they have no fucking clue) which is a clear violation of everything Sibyl stands for and a clear admission the system doesn't work. I genuinely wonder what these same people think of this development. This entire episode spit in the face of all their arguments. None of them stand anymore.

I think it means that Sibyl aren't ideological purists. And I don't necessarily think that "spits in the face of all our arguments". Propagandists don't always believe in their own propaganda. Sometimes they just want to gain/maintain influence and power, and they are willing to use lies and manipulations to achieve that.

Sibyl, I think, is more concerned with the perception of Sibyl of being consistent/perfect than with Sibyl actually being consistent/perfect.


You've raised largely valid criticisms, Kanon, but they seem to boil down mostly to three key points:

1. Sibyl is stupid.

2. Kirito's personal backstory is ridiculous.

3. This 2nd season is going to amount to a waste of time.


Now, while the first two are significant flaws, I don't think they're quite as completely quality-destroying as you seem to think they are.

Psycho-Pass would hardly be the first fictional narrative with megalomaniacal villains who do/say some stupid stuff. Lex Luthor has had some half-baked schemes that Sibyl could never dream of cooking up.

And, really, it's not even necessarily that Sibyl is stupid, per se. They could just be lazy, bored, aloof, or procrastinating by nature. Either one of the above could largely if not entirely account for Sibyl's missteps in Season 2. Does it make them disappointing as antagonists? Yes, probably. So yes, it is a valid criticism to make. But you present the issue as though it completely breaks the narrative. What, villains aren't allowed to be flawed in ways like lazy, bored, aloof, or procrastinating? Villains now have to be perfect, just with the exception of being evil? Not every villain has to be David Xanatos in order for a story to work, in my opinion (though I'll admit it's generally nice for a villain to be very competent like that).

I get how the setting, and some of the ideas behind it, might be more compelling if Sibyl were true mastermind overlords. But perhaps there's a thematic point to be made in them being as sloppy as they clearly are. Leave a relatively small oligarchy in constant control, with minimal turnover and no oversight, and maybe they're bound to become like this. So maybe Psycho-Pass can be taken as criticism of the oligarchy form of government in general (or, at least, of an oligarchy that grows old and stale and overly staid over time).


Now, as for Kirito's backstory - Yeah, that's really stretching it. But hey, it's modern sci-fi. How often do you see hard sci-fi without any eyebrow-raising elements? How often do you see that in anime sci-fi especially?

Remember Coppelion? I kind of gave up on anime sci-fi staying strictly within the bounds of plausible science after that show.


Now, as for your third key criticism... I think that having a Psycho-Pass Season 2 and a separate Psycho-Pass movie, so close to each other, was probably a mistake, at least creatively speaking, for the reasons you and many of us have discussed. It does strike me as a cynical cash-in, with minimal thought given to how good this setup would be for the broader Psycho-Pass narrative and setting in general. So I can understand your frustration there, as I share it myself.


But with all of the above being said, I think this Season 2 has given us some interesting characters/scenarios, a lot of nicely tense moments, and a lot of sheer fun entertainment. Maybe that's not enough to save Season 2 for you, but I hope you can understand how it can make some viewers, like myself, be a bit more forgiving to the flaws you've pointed to.


Here's something we can probably agree on - Psycho-Pass Season 2 has been much like Guilty Crown.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Yes but they had to use a direct conection interface since normal signal was out of range

That does make more sense, thanks for clearing that up.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Here's something we can probably agree on - Psycho-Pass Season 2 has been much like Guilty Crown.

I wouldn't got that far. It's more like Darker than Black season 2... only less bad.

[Jaden]

I still think there's gonna be one big reveal here, one that I think is being heavily implied already. Here's my prediction again:

Akane thinks that Misako Togane is a part of Sibyl, but it makes more sense if she created the system and is now overriding its authority. After creating Kamui, she lost faith in the system, and could never give it complete control...she left herself with the highest authority, which is now holding Sibyl back. That's also how she can get away with having her own brain-child getting rid of all the inspectors she doesn't like. When she is removed, the system will happily take in Kamui and evolve, as Akane is suggesting. This then leads to advancements that allow for global control (that will be a theme in the movie)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Psycho-Pass would hardly be the first fictional narrative with megalomaniacal villains who do/say some stupid stuff. Lex Luthor has had some half-baked schemes that Sibyl could never dream of cooking up.

And, really, it's not even necessarily that Sibyl is stupid, per se. They could just be lazy, bored, aloof, or procrastinating by nature. Either one of the above could largely if not entirely account for Sibyl's missteps in Season 2. Does it make them disappointing as antagonists? Yes, probably. So yes, it is a valid criticism to make. But you present the issue as though it completely breaks the narrative. What, villains aren't allowed to be flawed in ways like lazy, bored, aloof, or procrastinating? Villains now have to be perfect, just with the exception of being evil? Not every villain has to be David Xanatos in order for a story to work, in my opinion (though I'll admit it's generally nice for a villain to be very competent like that).

I don't know about breaking, but it's a major flaw in the narrative, especially for someone like me who likes coherent stories with no holes. They knew full well Kamui was a big threat for them because of the information he held, they've been looking for him for a long time, and when they finally catch sight of his tail, they do nothing. They wanted Akane or Togane to kill him, but they don't provide them with the means to do so. What were they expecting? It just doesn't make sense, especially when you consider they already did help Akane in season 1, so clearly, they're not above intervening when they need to. Laziness, boredom or whatever will never explain why they never acted until now in the face of a threat that could have destroyed them. Or why they chose a solution that completely goes against their own principles to prevent Kamui from reaching them instead of one that was a lot easier to put in place and wouldn't have compromised the system.

I'm in no way asking them to be perfect. Good villains are never the ones that are on either of the extremes you mentioned. I just wished for them to act like any being with common sense and self-preservation instinct would. Which they had in the first season.

And those are not the only issues I have with this season. I already complained during season 1 that the later half of it became too much of a Makishima show. Well, this entire season is the Kamui show. Everything revolves around him -who lacks the colorful personality of Makishima and his charisma- and his plan that relies almost completely on coincidences, asspulls (he knows everything about Sibyl, he can magically make drugs that can lower anybody's CC), and the incompetence of the system to work, making him a largely unimpressive antagonist. No other character was truly explored. Togane was only relevant because of his family's connection to Kamui. Nobody received development except perhaps Mika (still waiting to see where this goes), which is nowhere near enough. In season 1, we got to find out about Masaoka, Kogami, Yayoi, and Gino's pasts, and Kogami, Gino and Akane received a lot of development. Here, all of the main characters felt like extras in Kamui's play. People often joked about Yayoi's irrelevance in s1, but in s2, everybody is Yayoi IMO

The only character I feel was handled relatively well was Togane.

It seems to me that Tow Ubukata only has a superficial understanding of makes Urobuchi's works compelling. He seems to think that all you need is to amp up the gore, include more shocking/grotesque moments and to create a supercompetent villain to top him. In truth, what makes Urobuchi's works so good are its characters. Here, there was no character drama whatsoever. Except that pitiful attempt with Akane and her grandma, but it's probably better left unmentioned.

Perhaps he didn't intend for S2 to be similar to S1, but in that case, why copy the premise? It's pretty much the same: a person that can't be judged by the system wants to destroy it. This wouldn't be a problem in itself... if we didn't already know Kamui will fail thanks to the movie synopsis. I believe S2 should have taken another direction, like individuals cases that would have enabled us to learn more about the world of Psycho-pass and would have worked as a complement to the movie, or a more character driven approach focusing on the new cast members.

But with all of the above being said, I think this Season 2 has given us some interesting characters/scenarios, a lot of nicely tense moments, and a lot of sheer fun entertainment. Maybe that's not enough to save Season 2 for you, but I hope you can understand how it can make some viewers, like myself, be a bit more forgiving to the flaws you've pointed to.


Here's something we can probably agree on - Psycho-Pass Season 2 has been much like Guilty Crown.

I can understand why people would like this show, but I very much doubt they like it for the same reasons they liked the first season. That was what I was trying to say with the last sentence. Perhaps this is an excellent show to some people, but it has none of the qualities Psycho Pass had. There were a few good ideas in this season, but they were all horribly executed.

And yep, I can totally agree on it being similar to Guilty Crown.

[J the Drafter]

I started watching Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru last night, and something struck me about Karin's debut episode. Karin almost seemed like a sympathetic version of Mika. Karin is bossy, arrogant, and rude. She gives orders to the main cast, snaps at their antics, and holds herself above them since her powerset was optimized by the higher-ups to fight vertexes, but Yuuki Yuuna shows why Karin acts and thinks the way she does. Her whole life revolves--and always has revolved--around fighting vertexes. Literally every scene showing Karin's free time is a scene where she's practicing her skills and training her endurance. She's depicted as a girl without any social connections, and she's never once shown doing an activity by herself for simple pleasure. Even the snack she eats (salted sardines) is chosen for the edge it gives her in fighting the vertexes. (Karin claims dried sardines have some health benefits.) Those traits add up to someone who is, if not likable, at least understandable.

Mika, in contrast, couldn't get so much as a single second showing viewers that the last friendly-seeming latent criminal she met turned out to be a serial killer.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I can understand why people would like this show, but I very much doubt they like it for the same reasons they liked the first season. That was what I was trying to say with the last sentence. Perhaps this is an excellent show to some people, but it has none of the qualities Psycho Pass had. There were a few good ideas in this season, but they were all horribly executed.

And yep, I can totally agree on it being similar to Guilty Crown.

Agree with this, Psycho Pass 2 has really very little to do with the first season, if anything it feels more like watching "Ghost in the Shell - Stand Alone Complex" again, the direction and execution are a lot more similar to that, and the character of Kamui closely reminds me of "the laughing man".

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

In truth, what makes Urobuchi's works so good are its characters.

I somewhat disagree. I think Urobuchi's greatest strength as a writer is his ability to write fairly complex and engaging narratives with minimal plot holes or reader/viewer need to suspend disbelief. Now, Gen isn't downright perfect, as even Madoka Magica had a few small plot points that were a bit of a stretch, but Gen is still far far better than average when it comes to what I'd call "tight writing". And I'd argue that Psycho-Pass Season 2's greatest deficiency compared to Season 1 is that Season 2's writing has a lot more plot points that can be critiqued heavily from a basic believability standpoint, as you yourself have demonstrated.

That being said, I think that Gen's character work is actually a bit under-appreciated, so I'm not going to disagree with you that strongly here.

I can understand why people would like this show, but I very much doubt they like it for the same reasons they liked the first season.

That would certainly be my experience, yes. Psycho-Pass Season 1 was much better fodder for the sort of political/philosophical discussions that sci-fi excels at when sci-fi is at its best. Season 2 has this sort of Hollywood action blockbuster vibe to it where it's almost a constant thrill ride involving a steady stream of cliffhangers and "shock and awe" moments, so it holds a certain amusement and entertaining intensity to me. But after awhile, that can numb a bit if the ideas supporting it all aren't well fleshed-out, and that is a problem I'm starting to see crop up a bit in Season 2.