Rwby

[grecefar]

I liked the new grimm, and the battle well didn't have a good level like previous seasons but it wasn't bad but I hope they get better.

Won't comment about blake and sun, never liked the ship and I'm happy it's sinking.

[Mach56gs]

I think we're missing the point.

The girls have issues, definitely. You can even argue they're victimized.

But I think we'll all agree that the girls will proactively sort out their problems and strengthen themselves. They aren't going to go to meetings or rely on someone else as a crutch.

It's rather cliche and doesn't reflect reality, true, but this is an idealistic fantasy.

Yang will snap out of her negativity due to some sudden development that forces her to respond and get out of the house (White Fang meddlings?).

Blake will meet with her parents, deal with Sun, and make the decision to return.

Ruby will probably sympathize with Jaune and collide with Tyrion, and in conflict she'll let her guilt die in favor of a more determined stand against evil.

Weiss will get fed up and, encouraged by her sis and hopefully FNKI (and maybe her mother?) Tell her dad that there is nothing more sympathetic and good-press than having the heiress herself journey outside of Atlas to help those affected by the terrorist attacks.

The girls are gonna be alright, is what I'm trying to say.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

See, I certainly HOPE that writers are aware of what they wrote here and don't see it as there being nothing wrong with Sun's behavior here.

Pretty sure they are, what with how Blake reacted.

Sun/Blake was already on it's way out in Vol3 with pretty much zero screen time or interactions, so it would have been easy to just write it off as a crush that disappeared. The fact that the focus point of Fall of beacon was Blake and YANG facing Adam while Sun was reduced to shouting some lines at Ruby being an idiot is already pretty telling. IF they wanted to kill the pairing idea, they did not need a whole plotline for that already. Dragging it out to do it now is baffling.

Something being on the way out doesn't mean it's dead, and Blake and Yang being apart this season means that their ship loses focus, and that always gives folks ideas.

The writers wanting to kill the ship is a reason for them writing Sun acting so crappily this episode. Can't really think of another.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I think I'm starting to get it.

You're really, really not.

Ruby's alleged ptsd

She's having recurring nightmares of the time her friend died in front of her. What about that is alleged?

and now suddenly Blake is a stalking victim

Did you perhaps miss Adam and Blake's interaction last season, or Blake and Sun this episode?

... Are you even capable of viewing girls in anything other than a victim role, despite the fact that most of the asskicking in this story is done by said girls?

So because people can kick ass, nothing bad can ever happen to them? They can never have issues?

[MeoTwister5]

Any clinical psychiatrist would readily conclude that the girls have very serious issues post fall of Beacon. I have no idea why Dengar would presume the contrary. These are some very serious issues to deal with. Having actually worked with patients with similar symptoms in the past these are not things you can easily dismiss.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Or maybe just maybe it is legitimate ongoing problem with current entertainment media and being reductive about the the issue serves nothing good?

Not to mention as I outlined in the post, Sun's purpose of existing is least of problems surrounding his writing right now. Sun being solely a character existing for romantic interaction is start of problems surrounding his writing but right now the problems surrounding his writing exist even without that.

And the question is how the show is going to solve the very questionable way they wrote him this episode. They can't be that blind not to notice that, I mean, you cant write character being so dismissive of someone's agency unintentionally.

Sun exists as a foil character to Blake, he is supposed to be compared and contrasted with her. Much like Phyrra and Jaune played off each other, and even Ruby and Jaune to some extent.

He is open and friendly, where she is quiet and reclusive.
Where he is willing to share his burdens (and shoulder other people's burdens) she prefers to isolate herself and avoid them.

He doesn't know that she was in an abusive relationship and incorrectly assumed she was going to get back at the White Fang in an attempt at a one woman war so decided to follow her and help, because it was what he assumed she would do based on what he knows about her from her prior actions in Volume 1-2.

The reason he didn't reveal himself sooner is because he thought that Blake would stop him from helping her in that theoretical war.

He didn't know she was running away from her problems, or about Adam's threat against her loved ones. She didn't exactly tell anyone before running off and isolating herself.

He wasn't sensitive to her issues because he isn't even AWARE that she has them, she doesn't exactly share that kind of information as the end of volume 1 shows.

Sun obviously wasn't portrayed as being entirely correct in his decision to follow her, as Blake getting angry and slapping him showed. But unlike the viewer, he doesn't have the context that drove Blake's decision to abandon her team.

[quigonkenny]

Yep. You guys are toxic. I can watch the show without discussing it, but I can't discuss it here and enjoy it. Looking at a fictional work and seeing it on multiple levels it one thing, but only seeing it at a meta level, where every aspect is some realistic depiction of a psychological issue has some hidden meta meaning... No thank you. I'm out. Have fun.

[MeoTwister5]

I go to reddit for the nontoxic silliness.

Sometimes with popcorn in case a shipping war comes up.

[XFire]

Imma stay. Dresden is amusing.

[The 48th Ronin]

Some guys are taking the story too seriously, I guess.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Any clinical psychiatrist would readily conclude that the girls have very serious issues post fall of Beacon. I have no idea why Dengar would presume the contrary. These are some very serious issues to deal with. Having actually worked with patients with similar symptoms in the past these are not things you can easily dismiss.

Ruby was there to literally be in front of three deaths - one of them she caused, the two others were deaths of her close friends she was unable to prevent from dying.

One of the deaths caused her to literally go into shock and spend the rest of volume in a mix of outbursts of anger and not knowing where she even is(I mean literally half her time on ship is filled with moments where Ruby acts disoriented on where she even is), not to mention her constantly being attacked by Grimm Both in the arena and on the ship(till Roman was pissed off enough to become a target, Grimm literally ignored him and Neo and kept going after Ruby).

The other death literally caused her to snap in the most direct possible description, which ended with repressed memories. And after she woke up her behavior at home is very different from her normal one.

Even without knowledge of psychology, one could see that Ruby is in no way well off mentally from what happened.

And as someone with psychology major, its kind of clear for me that we see in end of Vol3 how Ruby's subconscious tries to shield her from what happened via denial - pretty much everything she says after waking up is focused on others and not on herself. She clings towards asking Taiyang and then Qrow about others and when it actually shifts towards herself for a while there are clear indications of anger(Like when she said Cinder's name) and almost breaking down in tears. And even when it is about her she is trying to shift it towards others in order to get some sort of "goal" to busy her mind with so she does not have to self-reflect. In fact after Qrow leaves and Ruby is left alone in the room facing the mirror, that is unbearable enough for her to seek out Yang as a way to continue the talk.

A lot of people pointed out how her conversation with Yang seems to disrespect Yang's problems, as Ruby does not even ask if she is okay or talk about anything more empathetic. But it makes sense if we treat her talk with Yang as her trying to "continue" the same tone of conversation as she had with Taiyang and Qrow. The first thing she tries to with yang? "You're Okay" - not as much of a question as much as a wish. Yang has always been stable and strong element in her life, so she tries to reaffirm that with her. Ruby does not want to know Yang is suffering, she wants to know Yang is okay. Sure it might SEEM cold but it fits the state of mind Ruby is in at that moment. When that fails, Ruby literally seeks out to continue the SAME pattern of "asking about others" discussion as a way to not be left with herself. Ruby then tries the same "what do we DO" kind of approach to get some sort of goal to set her mind away from actually thinking about the moment she is in now.

Alas Yang is handling her trauma differently. Instead of going into state of denial like Ruby is trying to, Yang displays far clearer symptoms of acute stress disorder(even though Ruby displays some of that too(ex: selective memory loss), but for Ruby it is already because of developing PTSD as technically bits and pieces of what Yang is going through now Ruby already did with loss of her mother). She is disconnected from her surroundings and people close to her. It is no surprise that such a state of mind eventually led into ptsd too after Ruby left and she did not really "improve" and was kind of just left there.

While there are common symptoms there between Yang and Ruby's mental trauma, Ruby is clearly still on the same kind of "autopilot". She is still going by that "how can I be of help" she said to Qrow and trying to focus solely on being the "reliable one" in Team RNJR. She occupies herself with her goal of going to Haven and figuring out what happened, she occupies herself with being the strong one in the team.
In fact one can clearly see Ruby trying to emulate Yang(the person who was her most stable element in her life) in the group - same kind of overblown mannerisms, same kind of "angry" fighting(because self control and facade does not hold during adrenaline), same kind of dropped smiles once attention isnot on her.

While Yang is already "dealing" with what happened, Ruby's mind is still full in on denial. The show even contrasts Jaune actually actively grieving to Ruby trying to act like its alright.

In fact the difference in the ways of approach their minds took actually makes a lot of sense with the problems they had before this trauma - Yang was dealing with abandonment and self worth issues, while Ruby was trying to ignore and avoid grieving for her mother by 100% committing to an escapist fantasy of fairytale heroes.

Basically what we are seeing is that everyone else is dealing with their issues or starting to be forced to deal with them, while Ruby is trying to ignore them and the question is how long can she really do that. Alas I have a suspicion that the catalyst will have to be Tyrion hunting her down.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Sun exists as a foil character to Blake, he is supposed to be compared and contrasted with her. Much like Phyrra and Jaune played off each other, and even Ruby and Jaune to some extent.

Except that Pyrrha/Jaune and Ruby/Jaune interactions are positive. If there is any Blake interaction that the show ACTIVELY compared to Pyrrha/Jaune it is Blake/Yang.

Blake/Sun can only be compared to Weiss/Jaune which is ehhhhh. Comparing Sun's action to literally harassment is in no way positive light for what happens here.

The reason he didn't reveal himself sooner is because he thought that Blake would stop him from helping her in that theoretical war.

As she would have every right to do as it is HER CHOICE and you can't "forcefully" help somebody. She has no obligation to accept Sun's advances or help.

He is open and friendly, where she is quiet and reclusive.
Where he is willing to share his burdens (and shoulder other people's burdens) she prefers to isolate herself and avoid them.

Except that she has every right to be "Quiet and reclusive". She is dealing with abuse she suffered You can't "force" help onto an abuse victim. That just denies her her agency.

He doesn't know that she was in an abusive relationship and incorrectly assumed she was going to get back at the White Fang in an attempt at a one woman war so decided to follow her and help, because it was what he assumed she would do based on what he knows about her from her prior actions in Volume 1-2.

He didn't know she was running away from her problems, or about Adam's threat against her loved ones. She didn't exactly tell anyone before running off and isolating herself.

Sooo....He does not know anything about the supposed object of his affection and has constructed a completely wrong image of her in his head.

And instead of trying to learn or pay attention he is being reductive about her problems, implies she can't possibly take care of things alone, forcefully adds himself into her journey and tries to reinforce that image of her as real.

He wasn't sensitive to her issues because he isn't even AWARE that she has them, she doesn't exactly share that kind of information as the end of volume 1 shows.

Except that this is not Vol1 Blake. We have seen her progress in retaking her agency. And it is not a new problem with sun. he was dismissive of her since the start. Weiss of all people can be attentive enough to KNOW that something is wrong. What does Sun do in regards of Blake's problems in the same scene? "So Blake is being Blakey still? So how about that dance I want to get with her?" and so on.

Sun obviously wasn't portrayed as being entirely correct in his decision to follow her, as Blake getting angry and slapping him showed. But unlike the viewer, he doesn't have the context that drove Blake's decision to abandon her team.

Exactly - he does not have context.

So why not be aware of that and ASK HER? Instead he stalks her for SIX MONTHS on an entirely wrong assumption. In those six months it does not even dawn upon him that it is a wrong assumption.

And when he actually is discovered and can't RUN, he establishes the Blake in his head as as statement. There's not even a doubt in his mind that "that and that" is what Blake is doing.

The whole episode is one wrong move after another wrong move by Sun.

• He stalks her, he disrespects her problems in doing so because the very idea of stalking somebody who is already afraid of a stalker is way past insensitive.
• He tries to run away from her, when discovered. With the show narrative already having Weiss line about "innocents never running".
• He then uses her as a freaking landing platform. A move that has been used as a form of disrespect towards Torchwick by both Sun and Ruby. He literally does to the object of his affection something that is usually done to the VILLAIN in this show.
• He has the audacity to imply that Blake can't possibly do this on her own and needs help after Blake has had to save his ass seconds ago
• During the fight there's clear discontent from him that Blake is not grateful. he gets in her way multiple times during the fight to pose or play the hero

After fight it is arguably even worse as he shows no remorse:

• First action when Blake is trying to ask him what the hell is he doing here? Deflection via catcalling. Pretty much equivalent of "wow u look hot". AKA a red flag for anybody aware of sexism in modern world.
• What does he follow it with? Blaming her for leaving her team, despite having abandoned his own team to stalk her for SIX MONTHS. He literally admits to stalking her since the moment Beacon fell and sees nothing wrong with that.
• Then he builds up an assumption of her motives as a STATEMENT. Not a question. Statement. "This is what Blake is", "This is what Blake does". No regard to Blake's own agency on confirming or denying it.

Blake's reaction to all of that? Disbelief. Disgusted and confused "I can't believe you...".

The worst part is that this connects clearly with what she was escaping from in the first place. A possessive male forcing his will and ideas onto her.

Remember the trailer quote of Blake? The quote that defines her whole raison d'etre?
"Your hope shave become my burden. I will find my own liberation"

Except this time the one burdening her with super-imposing his own will onto her and the one denying her her agency and freedom is not Adam. It is Sun. Sun has built up this image of Blake in his head that is in no way real and that is an insult to her actual legitimate problems and free will.

What's even worse is that Sun literally checks pretty much all marks in Stalker Traits this episode. I can't imagine how uncomfortable watching this had to have been for actual real life stalking victims.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Pretty sure they are, what with how Blake reacted.



Something being on the way out doesn't mean it's dead, and Blake and Yang being apart this season means that their ship loses focus, and that always gives folks ideas.

The writers wanting to kill the ship is a reason for them writing Sun acting so crappily this episode. Can't really think of another.



You're really, really not.



She's having recurring nightmares of the time her friend died in front of her. What about that is alleged?



Did you perhaps miss Adam and Blake's interaction last season, or Blake and Sun this episode?



So because people can kick ass, nothing bad can ever happen to them? They can never have issues?

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Any clinical psychiatrist would readily conclude that the girls have very serious issues post fall of Beacon. I have no idea why Dengar would presume the contrary. These are some very serious issues to deal with. Having actually worked with patients with similar symptoms in the past these are not things you can easily dismiss.

And thus the misrepresentation of arguments begins. I don't get why I even bother explaining this, you'll just continue attacking some straw man version of me.

Sigh... Lets try anyway....

I never dismissed anyone's issues anywhere ever.

[MeoTwister5]

You kind of called Ruby's escapist pattern and behavior "alleged" and insinuated that some viewers here can only view the girls as victims and not badasses when they are clearly and agreeably both.

If that's not dismissive then a better explanation is in order, because nothing about how Ruby ois trying to deal with her problem is "alleged" and viewers here believe that being a victim and being a badass are not mutually exclusive.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Allow me to quote another RWBY fan on the subject of Sun.

Sun is loud and friendly and a little clueless. He takes an interest in people and genuinely cares about them, but he looks at everything through his own world view without necessarily taking other people’s feelings into consideration and as a result he can come off as sort of obnoxious. He’s a big stupid sweetheart. Does he want to help? Absolutely. Does he know how best to do that? Absolutely not. This is what makes him a good foil for Blake, in that he absolutely doesn’t get her at all and it results in hilarious misunderstandings that are totally harmless but still drive her a little crazy. Certain people are taking that cluelessness as malicious in some way, and that’s how we’re getting this weird misconception that he is “abusive.” People think he is willfully ignoring Blake’s wishes, when what is actually happening here is that he legitimately doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get that Blake might want to go on this personal mission home by herself because his life’s motto is that “You should always get friends involved.” He just sees his friend putting herself in a sad and scary situation alone and wants to support her. He doesn’t understand why she might not want his support because it clashes so much with his personal world-view. He always has Blake’s best interest at heart, but sometimes he goes about helping her in a way that just kind of irritates her.

He can be annoying and obnoxious, but saying he is abusive is making a mockery of actual abuse victims everywhere.

Adam is abusive and crazy and doesn't actually care about Blake's well being.
Sun followed Blake despite her wishes because he does care about her well being, even if he honestly can't understand Blake's reasoning.

Does he display some stalker traits this episode? Yes, that is why she justifiably berated him,
but are you honestly telling me he only followed Blake for selfish reasons?

You are also making large logical leaps in assuming he simply stalked Blake for six months instead of figuring out what ship she would be leaving Vale in a ship and stowing-away on it.

[Harry Dresden]

You do not need "selfish reasons" to become a stalker.
Being a stalker is not excused because you think your reasons are benevolent(I am pretty sure even Adam 100% believes he is doing the right thing due to his "no wrong methods, only black and white sides" kind of worldview).
In fact it is pretty common for a Nice Guy to "upgrade" into a Stalking Nice Guy, because of the gratitude aspect and the warped view in terms of feeling like like the objects of their affection should have a personal obligation to respond to them being nice.


I am not making any logical leaps. I am going by what is stated in a show. The show has him admit he has stalked her and start that admission by recapping what she did after fall of Beacon. Unless the show goes out of it's way to have Sun state he "only" stalked her for a fraction of those six months, the implication is clear so far. Not that him doing actual investigating as breach of privacy to even locate Blake if he did not follow him from the very start would make the situation even better.

[MrTerrorist]

Uhh....what is this?
I thought this thread was about RWBY, it's animation, voice acting, the story, your favorite ship, posting fanart and fun stuff.
Now it some weird, social political platform over accusations and disagreement over whatever it is you guys are talking.

Let's just stop this ok? We can all agree to disagree with each other over these issues. Let's just focus on the show before all of this arguments gets the Mods attention.

Anyway, I just noticed something interesting while watching Volume 4 episode 2 on RT and Youtube.

During the end credits of Volume 4, episode 2​ on RT, it shows some concept art from that episode like characters, background, etc. For some reason, the Youtube version of Volume 4, episode 2 doesn't have the concept art, just a red background and later falling petals.

So why the change in the Youtube version?

[RDNexus]

Maybe because there's a chance to rip the video from YouTube, along with the said concept arts?
As far as it was said here, the RT version takes LONG to load the whole video to avoid such things.

[MeoTwister5]

You can't rip the vids from RT's player, OTOH you can just screencap specific images that you want.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Uhh....what is this?
I thought this thread was about RWBY, it's animation, voice acting, the story, your favorite ship, posting fanart and fun stuff.
Now it some weird, social political platform over accusations and disagreement over whatever it is you guys are talking.

Let's just stop this ok? We can all agree to disagree with each other over these issues. Let's just focus on the show before all of this arguments gets the Mods attention.

Every "opinion" can be claimed to be "political". It is such a vague term that people started to use it as a way to try to silence topics they don't like - "Oh you added something into a work that implies men and women are equal - why so political", when in reality being treated equally is a logical and normal human right.
And every story is written by human beings with opinions and reflects those opinions and worldviews. Everything is "political" and at the same time nothing is since the term is useless. Its no different from the buzzwords like "pretentious" that generally mean nothing.

Trying to "limit" the narrative to vague terms like "story" is reductive and puzzling at best.
What is the story? Is how characters are written not part of the story? Is exploring what the implications are behind the writing of characters not "the story"? Every work, every narrative, every piece of art is a statement, be it intentional or unintentional, because it is written by human-being and reflect their worldviews.

These are not some vague alien characters written by plants from outer space. These are human characters based on real world psychology and written by real world people with real world views and beliefs. Exploring what those characters mean and how those characters are written IS talking about "the story".

In this case "Sun Wukong is portrayed as stalker" IS the story, and character psychology is also clearly the focus of story this season and always was. Why should it NOT be discussed?

[The 48th Ronin]

So where exactly is Blake going? That island in the southeast of Remnant?

That floating Grimm-ball is creepy.

[RDNexus]

@Harry Dresden:
Because, maybe, not everyone enjoys digging that deep into the meaning of things, and having others do so only ends up mining their enjoyment of a story?