To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 10 Discussion / Poll

[The TouMAN]

Originally Posted by dniv

That was so well-done and badass. That was definitely my favorite chapter so far. So his losing streak has gotten even worse.

Mikoto for once gave a really deep and touching talk and she was fighting with her head and fists. I'm extremely impressed. That was a fantastic battle, definitely the best thing I have seen so far, and just like with Accelerator, she said so herself, that she couldn't beat him after he was resolved to win at all costs.

That was the Misaka Mikoto that once made her my #2 favorite character. Ok, she has temporarily surpassed Shiage in my top 4 list... That was exactly what I wanted to see.

Fantastic all around, and Touma was such a troll, lol. That made me laugh really hard. He is so lucky at that gamble lol. Misaka Mikoto has beaten him once and she has now straddled him, and they have connected heads, and legs, clearly they're the true OTP. Jk. Though I really wouldn't mind it with THIS Mikoto.

I liked that new look on NT 9. I was wondering about that PoV that Will-san mentioned a while ago the whole time. Mikoto, easily pointed it out, and it is why she is the best "friend" to have. It was also interesting to see how Touma considered Utopia versus her, since I very strongly agree with her PoV.

Also, Touma admitted he wasn't a hero, and she told him the same thing he told her on the bridge. I was waiting Othinus knows how many volumes for that. Finally, this volume deserves greatness!

I deeply enjoyed these last two chapters. That was VERY well done.

"Sorry but this Kamijou-san it¨s not such a Masochist"

i think that will say a certain unfortunate student...

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

Same with Mikoto and Touma. Technically, they are just acquaintances at most. They only help each other out in need, kind of like Accel and Touma. Wait, now that I think about, didn't Touma say that he will protect her to Unabara( that guy in GROUP) so in a way, we will never see an all out fight between them, will we ?

You hit it on the nose, most of Touma's behavior towards Misaka is intended to keep the promise he made to Eztali.

[The TouMAN]

Just now i have had a revelation thanks u guy above my post..

Still when does they FINISH traslating Volume 8 of HO ...!!! D:!!!

i cant resist anymore...need to... know the ending.... garghH!

[LG-MAX 2.o]

we will never see an all out fight between them, will we ?

for this and several other reasons as well, what bothers me is just Touma have not gone really serious and Mikoto talking as if really understood everything, a rest was well done.

[The One Above God]

Next is Birdy and Index. Birdway looks cute in the illustration. Makes me want to capture her, put her in a jar, then shake the jar lightly just to see how she will react

Wonder how she got the mini-Gungnir though

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

Same with Mikoto and Touma. Technically, they are just acquaintances at most. They only help each other out in need, kind of like Accel and Touma. Wait, now that I think about, didn't Touma say that he will protect her to Unabara( that guy in GROUP) so in a way, we will never see an all out fight between them, will we ?

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

You hit it on the nose, most of Touma's behavior towards Misaka is intended to keep the promise he made to Eztali.

I completely disagree. That was then. This is now. She was in the right this past chapter and so she overpowered him. He is friends with her now. That is apparent. He does care about her, that was clear from what he said about her happiness in NT 9. He has changed over that long slew of worlds and in NT 8 he accepted both her and Index's help. He treats her as a powerful ally. At this point, he only promised to protect the world around her, not her, herself, since she is a powerful level 5. I edited my last post to point out something important I didn't mention before, but I can say that he will fight all out against her. She would have crushed him if he didn't try his hardest now, the only difference now is that he knows she is a kind person who hasn't committed that much darkness, so he doesn't want to hurt her. He doesn't just punch people for no reason. You guys need to stop being so biased. That was an awesome fight.

@LG-Max, she didn't have to understand everything to pass judgment. Her point of view was clearly in the right...

[LG-MAX 2.o]

the fight was amazing, but some people saw that it had weak points, just that.

[Wandering Soul]

Really looking forward to how Index reacts when it's time for Touma and her to have their own serious conversation. I also want to see how Birdway reacts to what her Oni-chan is doing.I doubt there will still be more harassment.

[The TouMAN]

Originally Posted by the one above all

Really looking forward to how Index reacts when it's time for Touma and her to have their own serious conversation. I also want to see how Birdway reacts to what her Oni-chan is doing.I doubt there will still be more harassment.

no harassment coz a Yandere Index is the devl incarnate...

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by dniv

I completely disagree. That was then. This is now. She was in the right this past chapter and so she overpowered him. He is friends with her now. That is apparent. He does care about her, that was clear from what he said about her happiness in NT 9. He has changed over that long slew of worlds and in NT 8 he accepted both her and Index's help. He treats her as a powerful ally. At this point, he only promised to protect the world around her, not her, herself, since she is a powerful level 5. I edited my last post to point out something important I didn't mention before, but I can say that he will fight all out against her. She would have crushed him if he didn't try his hardest now, the only difference now is that he knows she is a kind person who hasn't committed that much darkness, so he doesn't want to hurt her. He doesn't just punch people for no reason. You guys need to stop being so biased. That was an awesome fight.

@LG-Max, she didn't have to understand everything to pass judgment. Her point of view was clearly in the right...

This actually makes more sense than what I was trying to say, I didn't agree with his whole post, just the last part about the promise (I'm making excuses now), not that the promise is what drives him, that was his intention from the beginning.

Side note: Regarding the promise I thought it was "to protect Misaka Mikoto and the world around her"...I'll have to look it up.

Spoiler for Promise to Eztali:

“Can I ask you to protect her?”
The magician asked.
“No matter where, no matter when, no matter who your opponent is, no matter how many times, as long as something like this happens, you’ll have to be a hero and go to her side to protect her. Can you promise me this?”
It was what he dreamed of but could never bring into reality.
It was his dearest wish, but he didn’t have a choice other than to give the opportunity to someone else.
And then…
Kamijou only said one sentence.
And then nodded.
“That’s the worst possible answer,” the magician lying on the ground said lightly while smiling.

[Kenju of the Right]

The thing with Touma and his ever-changing ideals reminds of the thing Kamachi said about making the enemies Touma's "Rivals"
Because Touma has his changing ideals and likewise, Sherry had a problem where she had an overload of ideals that keep changing
the main point being that they dont want to lose their precious person

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

the fight was amazing, but some people saw that it had weak points, just that.

You don't get it. My point is that the weak points you guys are saying aren't even weak points at all. You're bashing Mikoto for telling Touma to consider his friends' dignity and memories over their happiness like Will-san partially pointed out, and she pointed out that she never wanted to be forced to be naive. That's an extremely meaningful statement coming from her, because she is cursed with being naive, and it was what led to the death of 10,000 sisters in the first place.

Mikoto preaching wasn't preaching like I said before. You are all missing the point. She was being a friend that was telling Touma that he should consider the feelings of the people who saves as well as himself. He should not force one idea of utopia on everybody because that is true tyranny. That was DEEP. It wasn't just fluff.

If she would have fought him all out, everyone would have been pissed off because then we would have known she was an inconsiderate brat. But she wasn't one. She obviously held back until he completely pissed her off. And at that point, Touma needed to lose his resolve. It is like what happened with Accelerator. He clearly didn't try his hardest either. Is that so hard to understand?

Touma lost his resolve temporarily because he assumed he could decide for others whether or not they should be happy or remember their dark past. Mikoto was understandably pissed off. Will-san hinted at somthing similae as well. Mikoto showed excellent character growth. She isn't as smart as Will-san, so it makes no sense for her to fully say things as smart as her without fully knowing the situation so she said her reasonable point of view and she acknowledged his strength. This is the first time she has brought herself to make sure Touma understood her point. That was clear character growth. Don't deny it, just because it is convenient. This fight was brilliantly written and much better than I expected. The all-out fight wouod have been terrible and would have compltely pissed me off. I enjoyed everything in this chapter. It was by far the strongest chapter for me. All of it makes sense to me, everyone just keeps on trying to pick holes because they hate Mikoto's guts. That is really stupid and not cool. Kamachi is writing this, implying it is as excellent as usual. Miki is weaker than you all think. Maybe in an alternate universe he would have beaten her with a different dyanmic between them, but in this one, she won, and did it absolutely brilliantly.

I want to read the railgun chapters that led to this transformstion of hers that convinced her to avoid being naive at all costs. That is totally different from how she once was, and everyone is conveniently ignoring it.

And lastly, before I have to go to Japanese class, Index has her role eventually or will have one. That is clear. But these words Touma heard now most certainly should have come from her instead of Index. Touma saved Mikoto on the bridge by preventing her rrom throwing away her life, and constantly rebutted all of her efforts to help him. Index has always fought with him and Touma talked to both of them in NT 8. Clearly, Index will have her own arc eventually when Laura makes her move... Touma and her can resolve their problems then. As of right now, Mikoto needed to be the one to tell Kamijou that he should value his own life, and not always completely trample on others' wishes. She wanted to make that clear, and she finally calmed down to talk to him. I care way more about character interactions in this boss-rush than the stupid battle coolness of each chapter. The whole point of this boss rush is the character interactions which is why I really want to see this sort of battle. It was my favorite so far, and I most certainly wouldn't have liked it another way unless Kamachi himself chose to write it that way, because then it would have been good, since it would have had a lot of depth to considering writing the story that way. I implictly trust Kamachi's ability by now, and that will not change at all, any time soon.

Edit: To the post above me, (sorry this is using a phone so I have misspellings and punctuation errors every five seconds) you are definitely right that he said he would protect her and the world around her, that was my fault for trying to make my argument look stronger, lol. But, yes I agree with your point that it was his initial motivation for protecting her.

[OH&S]

Amazing dniv.

[Miraluka]

^
*the sarcasm in this thread is a strong one*

Overall an average chapter, comic relief or not, the fight virtually ended when Touma was right behind her, a chop on the back of her neck and Touma wins, but hey, this chapter focus wasn't the fight itself, like hell that would happen ever.

Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right

I gotta agree with this, there was nothing wrong with the fight, I'd say
Having things get too serious probably would have made their relationship a little messy
not to mention she got the chance to help him

Friends fight and make up, if they can't, are they even friends?

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

Mikoto acted the same way that many Index and Railgun fans say hate in Touma, she not saw the happy world that Touma saw, so she can not understand, I wonder if these fans will overlook about it just because it's she?

Just some cool but empty words.

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

Shouldn't it be the same source like the whip thing ? Since he cancelled a part of the power it will affect the whole thing as well. If she can completely control the current so it's not reached the IB then it's possible but I don't think there are anywhere in the chapter stage that she did that.

Plot hole. Just deal with it :/

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

Hmm, I really liked this chapter, I seem to be in the minority though.

About Misaka's speech, the Will motivated Touma to move, but in the end he still saw what he did as a sin or an evil that he was going to have to carry, once Misaka caught on to that she rejected that notion and hit him in the face while showing the contradiction in his behavior compared to how he resolved the Sister's arc.

Rather than rehashing the Will's speech it was more like she picked up where the Will left off by freeing him of the burden/sin that he had placed on his own shoulders. Allowing him to continue down his chosen path with a clear conscience.

It was an awesome role reversal imo, Misaka Touma'd Touma.

This and besides Touma was the one who started the fight, like always he jumped to conclusions before hearing her out.

Originally Posted by Redtama

I really couldn't have said this better myself. Seems like all the blind Mikoto hate clouded the meaning of this chapter for some people.

As for the people that can't get this:

Spoiler for NT10 CH16:

Just before everything fell to darkness, he thought he heard her speak.

“This is the first time I’ve beaten you… It’s a lot emptier than I thought it would be.”

It's like getting stuck on a boss in a game but you just can't seem to win, so you use cheat codes to easily beat it. You changed your goal from wanting to beat the boss to practically skip it, losing the satisfaction that you could have had. It's the same with Mikoto, she couldn't feel satisfied with her victory because her goal wasn't to win but to beat some sense into Touma.

Yeah the whole blind hate thing happems way too much whenever Mikoto does anything of importance, *sigh* well what can you do, damned if you, damned if you don't.

To me it was more like fighting the Taurus demon in Dark Souls and having him fall to his death on his own.

So on to the chapter:

1. So once again Touma jumps to conclusions and doesn't wait to hear Mikoto out, granred he must have been panicking a little because of the situation he was in but still.

2. So the spider theme is now canon, I'm okay with that.

3. So I don't know why everyone is talking like Touma starred wavering at "the last moment", it's more like in the halfway through the fight.

4. Misaka Mikoto has gained a new ability.

5. Kamijou Touma has been successfully Kamijou'd.

6. That end of this chapter, so touching:')

Now I have to say this is my favorite chapter of all the ones were we have had speeches, it was pretty amazing how she gave him a taste of his own medicine.

So I think that it was necessary for her to snap him back to himself in the way that she did, she literally knocked (and shocked) some sense back into him, some may see it as her just being "aggressive" but I personally didn't and also she was able to shock him because IB only envelopes his right "hand" and as you guys know as long as it doesn't make contact with IB any supernatural ability will work and function as it normally would.

As other have said she didn't take away Will's spot all she did was add to it and finish it and she was also trying to determine if he was still the same Touma she knew. She may not have understood what happened to him and what he experienced but she could connect and understand the feeling of carrying the guilt of having "killed" or "destroyed" a certain amount of lives and she was just reminding him of what he had said to her in Sisters arc. That's why when the spoilers for this chapter appeared I said it was like a "Reverse Sisters Arc", this time she was helping him.

You can call me a fanboy as much as you want but to me personally this was one of tje best chapters in the volume and in no way shape or form looked like it was rushed, crammed in, a rehash/copy, unnecessary, etc. So like I said out of the chapter with speeches this one is the best, but my favorite with action scenes was the fight with Marian and trust me it's pretty hard to decide on my favorjtes since the whole volume has been amazing.


I have been gloriously ninja'd by dniv, so beautiful:').

[WiliamZ0]

The chapter is great ... still not enough to bring to top 3 ... maybe top 7.

It more like comedy fight for me, the true point is only Mikoto's speech... is she tried hard to regain her 'almost-lost' heroine status from Will-tan. Cause That's what I see

A little forced, but the flow covered it.

Love with the fact that Mikoto realized, she can't beat him in way he is now. Compared to 10 minutes before, that Touma is like ... weaken by gameshark XD

And yeah, there's RPG feeling here. Good reference there Redtama

[Stufu]

After readin the whole chaps and comments....

I have gotta say "I agree with dniv"

Many people here cloud themselves with angst. against her.

And don't blame Kamachi-sensei or Miki-san for the plot in this chapter

Just consume the novel peacefully, guys....

[SoloPanda]

I can kind of understand why Mikoto could argue that without even knowing what he went through, because she really doesn't need to. For instance: If a person I consider a close friend starts acting all guilty as if he did something horrible, Lets say he approaches all teary eyed about how he destroyed my perfect world and he could never forgive himself. I think this situation would probably piss me off. No one wants their friend to suffer and if my friend has to suffer for my perfect world than it isn't a perfect world. I know this without ever seeing it. So yes I can see her lecturing him and even getting pissed and beating him down for acting that way towards the current her.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by dniv

You don't get it. My point is that the weak points you guys are saying aren't even weak points at all. You're bashing Mikoto for telling Touma to consider his friends' dignity and memories over their happiness like Will-san partially pointed out, and she pointed out that she never wanted to be forced to be naive. That's an extremely meaningful statement coming from her, because she is cursed with being naive, and it was what led to the death of 10,000 sisters in the first place.

Mikoto preaching wasn't preaching like I said before. You are all missing the point. She was being a friend that was telling Touma that he should consider the feelings of the people who saves as well as himself. He should not force one idea of utopia on everybody because that is true tyranny. That was DEEP. It wasn't just fluff.

If she would have fought him all out, everyone would have been pissed off because then we would have known she was an inconsiderate brat. But she wasn't one. She obviously held back until he completely pissed her off. And at that point, Touma needed to lose his resolve. It is like what happened with Accelerator. He clearly didn't try his hardest either. Is that so hard to understand?

Touma lost his resolve temporarily because he assumed he could decide for others whether or not they should be happy or remember their dark past. Mikoto was understandably pissed off. Will-san hinted at somthing similae as well. Mikoto showed excellent character growth. She isn't as smart as Will-san, so it makes no sense for her to fully say things as smart as her without fully knowing the situation so she said her reasonable point of view and she acknowledged his strength. This is the first time she has brought herself to make sure Touma understood her point. That was clear character growth. Don't deny it, just because it is convenient. This fight was brilliantly written and much better than I expected. The all-out fight wouod have been terrible and would have compltely pissed me off. I enjoyed everything in this chapter. It was by far the strongest chapter for me. All of it makes sense to me, everyone just keeps on trying to pick holes because they hate Mikoto's guts. That is really stupid and not cool. Kamachi is writing this, implying it is as excellent as usual. Miki is weaker than you all think. Maybe in an alternate universe he would have beaten her with a different dyanmic between them, but in this one, she won, and did it absolutely brilliantly.

I want to read the railgun chapters that led to this transformstion of hers that convinced her to avoid being naive at all costs. That is totally different from how she once was, and everyone is conveniently ignoring it.

And lastly, before I have to go to Japanese class, Index has her role eventually or will have one. That is clear. But these words Touma heard now most certainly should have come from her instead of Index. Touma saved Mikoto on the bridge by preventing her rrom throwing away her life, and constantly rebutted all of her efforts to help him. Index has always fought with him and Touma talked to both of them in NT 8. Clearly, Index will have her own arc eventually when Laura makes her move... Touma and her can resolve their problems then. As of right now, Mikoto needed to be the one to tell Kamijou that he should value his own life, and not always completely trample on others' wishes. She wanted to make that clear, and she finally calmed down to talk to him. I care way more about character interactions in this boss-rush than the stupid battle coolness of each chapter. The whole point of this boss rush is the character interactions which is why I really want to see this sort of battle. It was my favorite so far, and I most certainly wouldn't have liked it another way unless Kamachi himself chose to write it that way, because then it would have been good, since it would have had a lot of depth to considering writing the story that way. I implictly trust Kamachi's ability by now, and that will not change at all, any time soon.

Personally, i agree with your POV, but that's doesn't mean others POV is completely wrong. Let's took another looks at its with less Mikoto hate here:

Spoiler for Mikoto word:

Centered on her clenched fist, a tremendous amount of sparks burst from her entire body.

“That doesn’t change the fact that I took more than 10,000 lives in the past! Even if everything and everyone is saved a second from now and all the documents are rewritten, I don’t want to run from my sins!!”

For an instant – just an instant – Kamijou Touma’s thoughts came to a stop.

And that was when the second wave arrived.

A high-voltage current expanded along the surface of the snowscape and attacked his feet that were buried in the snow.

“Gah!?”

“There’s no such thing as a perfect world.”

He felt a pressure around his heart and his footing grew unsteady, but Mikoto grabbed his collar to support him when he started to fall.

“Even if it looks perfect on the surface, you’ll find something twisted if you look at it differently. It was the same with the #1’s experiment. You wouldn’t accept it when I said my way would make everyone happy! If you understood it back then, why did you change your mind now!?”

After a sound like a swinging metal baseball bat, her forehead slammed into his.

(Not good.)

But it was too late.

A lightning spear of a billion volts produced a tremendous noise as it stabbed into Kamijou’s head from point blank range.

“Vwah!? Agwah!!”

As he lay in the snow, his limbs trembled and he could not get up properly. His heart, brain, and nerves all cried out in pain.

“Those six billion people were swallowed up!! That was a world where a single set of values was forced on them all and they were only allowed to smile!! Anyone who doesn’t smile is treated like they don’t belong!! If you see something like that, you aren’t supposed to sit there looking jealous!! No matter how painful and hard it is and even if you’re all alone, isn’t it your role to clench your fist and say it’s wrong!?”

this is the main problem, as Kamachi stated :

Naturally, Misaka Mikoto did not understand the true feelings behind Kamijou Touma’s cries.

Without sharing the same time as him, that was unavoidable

This is the main problem and the reason why many people said Mikoto isn't suit for Touma, until the very end, she cannot understand Touma. like Touma said in NT9:

I never bothered to realize how comfortable my position was. If nothing had happened yet and Othinus suggested bringing back all those lost lives, I would probably have rejected it based on some random ideal or another. I would say their deaths had meaning or that you can’t toy with people’s lives so easily! But she’s already done it.

In that dark rectangular space, something like white glowing flower petals floated through the air.

“Honestly, you don’t make this easy /return,” she muttered.

Her short hair glowed white as if coming apart at the ends.

Her body was a borrowed one. It belonged to #10031.

Something invisible scattered as if peeling away from that physical body.

The Will had actually had a much faster way of motivating that boy to fight.

She was a thought entity created in part from what was learned in the deaths of over half the 20,000 clones.

By saving all of the clones, Othinus had greatly twisted the Will’s form.

As things were, her very existence would not be erased, but she would change into “something else” as if the data were being overwritten.

And so she had only needed to say one thing.

Please save me before this world crushes me.

(But it would have been all over if I had said that /return.)

this is where Mikoto differ from Touma and Will, she's never truly experience that world. Her ideals is correct but it's come from someone who never truly went through getting crushed by happiness, she's like Touma before he get into NT9 and she's remind him of his previous self, remind him that happiness not have a set meaning. so i agree that her path is completely different from Will who wants Touma to prioritized himself. And this is why Touma is shaken when Mikoto said that he decide others happiness.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

^
*the sarcasm in this thread is a strong one*

I agreed with his post though...

In all honesty there wasn't anything that specifically stood out when compared to the previous chapters but it wasn't nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Misaka's role here makes perfect sense.

Anyways I do like what NT10 and this entire 3 part arc seems to be doing. Its like saying goodbye to all of the regrets that have built up during this entire saga as well as throughout all of Index.