(L) Shiki

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It's a shame this episode came out so late (6 months!), it lessened its emotional impact for me.

I'm glad this didn't happen for me. I highly enjoyed episode 20.5, and found it just as powerful as the series content.

[White Manju Bun]

^ me neither, Id been anticipating this since May when the DVDs came out so when it was finally out and subbed I could barely contain my excitement. Looking forward to 21.5 as well.

[Kanon]

^ And I had totally forgotten about it

The real reason I didn't enjoy this episode all that much though, is that the anime tries way too hard to antagonize the humans (the manga is much more balanced, and the humans' actions/motivations in it are understandable). They tried to make the Shiki look like the victims in this episode, which feels horribly forced. Sorry, people who kill kids get no sympathy from me.

I highly recommend you to read the manga if you haven't done so already. I find it much better than the anime. Not that the anime was bad (far from it- although I certainly couldn't consider it the best anime of 2010), but it suffered from serious pacing issue. That reminds me, it's been a while since a chapter was released...

[maplehurry]

The real reason I didn't enjoy this episode all that much though, is that the anime tries way too hard to antagonize the humans (the manga is much more balanced, and the humans' actions/motivations in it are understandable). They tried to make the Shiki look like the victims in this episode, which feels horribly forced.

Well, for me, I also feel it forced that only so few villagers-turned-shikis feel like disobeying Sunako & Co, the mastermind of your murderers. There should be more who are like Yuki.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I highly recommend you to read the manga if you haven't done so already. I find it much better than the anime. Not that the anime was bad (far from it- although I certainly couldn't consider it the best anime of 2010), but it suffered from serious pacing issue. That reminds me, it's been a while since a chapter was released...

I found that the pacing for the anime fit the mood rather well.

& i shall start reading the manga soon enough.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The real reason I didn't enjoy this episode all that much though, is that the anime tries way too hard to antagonize the humans (the manga is much more balanced, and the humans' actions/motivations in it are understandable). They tried to make the Shiki look like the victims in this episode, which feels horribly forced. Sorry, people who kill kids get no sympathy from me.

That's actually one of the things I felt whilst watching the anime, but suprisingly I didn't get that so much in Episode 20.5. Probably because we finally got to see one human actually not being so pointlessly cruel and showing the Shiki some mercy.

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Spoiler for 20.5:

Hasegawa being the real human and actually putting the Shiki out of their misery was so strong. Espc since most of the other villagers didn't get why he was doing it. Nao. Man that poor girl.

That scene definitely had a lot of impact for me. It's like he realised he and his wife are the only sane people left.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Well, for me, I also feel it forced that only so few villagers-turned-shikis feel like disobeying Sunako & Co, the mastermind of your murderers. There should be more who are like Yuki.

It pretty much seemed like they were scared into obeying from the moment they rose unlike natsuno who knew pretty much what had happened to him so to me its not odd that most of the shiki followed orders

Originally Posted by Haak

That scene definitely had a lot of impact for me. It's like he realised he and his wife are the only sane people left.

I agree everyone else in the village seemed more into mutilating than getting the it over with

[fertygo]

Man, I'm just grumbling watching this episode...

[shadowii]

Originally Posted by Kanon

^ And I had totally forgotten about it

The real reason I didn't enjoy this episode all that much though, is that the anime tries way too hard to antagonize the humans (the manga is much more balanced, and the humans' actions/motivations in it are understandable). They tried to make the Shiki look like the victims in this episode, which feels horribly forced. Sorry, people who kill kids get no sympathy from me.

I highly recommend you to read the manga if you haven't done so already. I find it much better than the anime. Not that the anime was bad (far from it- although I certainly couldn't consider it the best anime of 2010), but it suffered from serious pacing issue. That reminds me, it's been a while since a chapter was released...

thats pretty much my feelings on it too Kanon (the chapter where matsu comes being the prime example)
but what can you do were at the hight of vampire popularity right now stuff like that happens, but yes for me the manga is the best version

Spoiler for they switched what the shiki did to humans doing it:

one interesting observation, in the manga it was shown that a shiki disobeying the kirishiki family got tied to a tree and burned to death, here they had the humans doing that
.

BUT they kept my favorite pipeline moment

Spoiler for favorite moment and sadofumi's motivation:

you know how one of the big ways used to make kiiling someone in fiction more "heroic" or "righteous" is "I am avenging my family"
There's munetaka looking down saying "I cant kill Yuzuki-san, he was such a good person and friend to me" and I'm thinking "Mune THATS THE ONE WHO KILLED YOUR SON AND TURNED YOUR BROTHER"
and he'll never know that
Not that Sadofumi (who by the way is another of my manga favorites) cares which shiki killed his loved ones at this point, His father AND his son are already gone and he knows he'll be alone when this is over: he just wants as many of the them to die to make the buzzing in his ear go away

[Guardian Enzo]

The quality of mercy:

It is kind of a shame this had to come six months later, because I think it's almost impossible not to lose a little of the impact after such a long layoff. And this was an incredibly powerful episode.

Spoiler for 20.5:

I, too, have never sympathized much with the Shiki. They started this war - they forced children to kill parents, and parents to kill children. They murdered in cold blood. The fact that the humans largely became savage and drunk with revenge is unfortunate - and a deliberate comment on human nature - but somewhat beside the point.

It's amazing, though, that for all the undeniable fact that this is an incredibly dark and depressing story, there are these tiny, Quixotic moments of grace that shine through the darkness. Like Ritusko and Tohru's deaths. And like Hasegawa finally taking up the stake not as an act of revenge, but one of mercy.

Amazingly powerful stuff. The BGM for this show is fantastic - some of the best of any anime, I think. I notice that there was no sign of Akira or Kaori in the preview for 21.5, which I hope doesn't mean we'll never find out just how the hell he was saved from that Shiki safehouse way back in episode 17.

[karice67]

Finally got a chance to see this, and that really was harrowing. I'm glad for Hasegawa, because I don't like many of the humans in both anime and manga (though especially in the anime).

I do hope they translated something at 6:20 literally though

"In order to kill demons, you have to become one yourself."

Originally Posted by shadowii

Spoiler for they switched what the shiki did to humans doing it:

one interesting observation, in the manga it was shown that a shiki disobeying the kirishiki family got tied to a tree and burned to death, here they had the humans doing that.

Spoiler for response:

I'm pretty certain they didn't kill him (wasn't it Yuzuki, actually? being punished for attacking children), it was just torture as punishment...

[shadowii]

Originally Posted by karice67

Finally got a chance to see this, and that really was harrowing. I'm glad for Hasegawa, because I don't like many of the humans in both anime and manga (though especially in the anime).

I do hope they translated something at 6:20 literally though

"In order to kill demons, you have to become one yourself."

Spoiler for response:

I'm pretty certain they didn't kill him (wasn't it Yuzuki, actually? being punished for attacking children), it was just torture as punishment...

check the part where tohru meets sunako (tohru muses over disloyalty punishments and remembers how he had to dispose of a charred body i believe he says this in the anime as well)

[neutrino]

Originally Posted by shadowii

check the part where tohru meets sunako (tohru muses over disloyalty punishments and remembers how he had to dispose of a charred body i believe he says this in the anime as well)

Not just one body IIRC. It was the standard sentence for shiki who tried to run away when they were summoned to the castle. The shiki who were got Yuzuki's punishment also died sometimes. Lest you think punishing Yuzuki for attacking children showed morality on Sunako's part, that was only to keep the parents from becoming aggressive. Tatsumi had no problem with killing one they'd kidnapped from the city.

Would the humans get more sympathy if Kaori were a cute goth-loli?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by shadowii

check the part where tohru meets sunako (tohru muses over disloyalty punishments and remembers how he had to dispose of a charred body i believe he says this in the anime as well)

Ah, you're right. I completely forgot.

Originally Posted by neutrino

Lest you think punishing Yuzuki for attacking children showed morality on Sunako's part, that was only to keep the parents from becoming aggressive. Tatsumi had no problem with killing one they'd kidnapped from the city.

I do remember that too. And I definitely don't like what the Kirishikis do.

But perhaps it's time for some viewers (the ones who were always asking why the shiki didn't resist Tatsumi et al) to reconsider their views about some of the normal shiki once again?

[PzIVf3]

Spoiler for Shike 21.5:

Good grace this episode is so disturbing and depress yet there are still no answer if there Shiki survivors in the ending. I really enjoy this series its gives me chill and exciting suspense well its sad its finally over.

[Shiroth]

My god, that episode was totally disturbing and depressing. Classic Shiki at it's best.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

It was a very good episode alright. I absolutely loved how much they were able to bring the otherwise unseen characters to life in just two episodes. And fill in a lot of detail on what was going on at the same time. Everything fits together so nicely. Marvelously well played.

[Marina]

I love how the Maeda and Yano families are contrasted through the relationships between mothers and daughters.

Spoiler for Plot:

Whereas Motoko goes completely crazy, with no help from her blind and controlling mother-in-law, Kanami holds onto her sanity through a love shared with her now shiki mother. Once again, this episode succeeds at shaking our notions of humanity; I sympathize with Kanami's mother and her daughter's desires to hide her and keep her alive. Motoko's story, however, is just plain depressing. Her worst fears are realized and she loses not only her children, but also her husband and his parents.

[Blaat]

I thought we would get an episode focused on the little brother? I mean we haven't seen how he survived after entering the shiki sleeping place. Or am I misremembering things, it has, after all, been a year (?!) since the series started.

[Kanon]

No complaints from me this time. 21.5 was a perfect adaptation of Motoko's depressing and disturbing story. I'm really glad it made it into the anime. I loved all the throwbacks to previous episodes.

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Spoiler for Shike 21.5:

Good grace this episode is so disturbing and depress yet there are still no answer if there Shiki survivors in the ending. I really enjoy this series its gives me chill and exciting suspense well its sad its finally over.

Only Seishin and Sunako survived. All the other shiki have been killed.

By the way, the manga is entirely scanlated now, so it's time to read it if you haven't done so already. The last chapter features a short epilogue.

Spoiler for Manga - A little treat for Seishin fans (Bun :p ):

I'd like to add it's unclear whether Seishin became a werewolf in the manga. I think he actually became a shiki (a pretty badass one... he killed epic beard guy in a very gruesome way), which is less of an ass pull than what happend to him in the anime.

Originally Posted by Blaat

I thought we would get an episode focused on the little brother? I mean we haven't seen how he survived after entering the shiki sleeping place. Or am I misremembering things, it has, after all, been a year (?!) since the series started.

It wasn't shown it was heavily implied he was rescued by Natsuno. I think Natsuno even confirmed it during his dialogue with Tatsumi, but I'm not sure.