(L) Kaze no Stigma

[Tiamat's Disciple]

I doubt the Fuuga clan are the only wind users, if they were then Kazuma couldnt of learnt it

When you think about it the comment the copper woman made about its usefulness makes a lot of sense. As i said earlier each element will have its own strengths and weaknesses making good for somethings, but not for others. For instance you can use fire to fly, but you also cant use wind to BBQ your dinner

[kaerstan01]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

I doubt the Fuuga clan are the only wind users, if they were then Kazuma couldnt of learnt it

When you think about it the comment the copper woman made about its usefulness makes a lot of sense. As i said earlier each element will have its own strengths and weaknesses making good for somethings, but not for others. For instance you can use fire to fly, but you also cant use wind to BBQ your dinner

yup, thats why i also used the term "more" in my statement cause i didnt totally disregard these obvious aspects of each element.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by kaerstan01

regarding the "doubt's about kazuma's strength" he did fight with his dad fair and square

that isnt exactally right as kazuma's dad has 2 disadvantages during the fight ~

1) he was overconfident and underestimated kazuma
2) he was cause off guard by his son's summoning speed and before he realized that he was in deep shi~ he didnt have any time to do anything...

id say if they both knew each other's abilities then maybe kazuma wouldnt have won without envoking the contract...

Spoiler for ep 5:

but boy was his contract powers badass! too bad it doesnt last long >.<

[ctrl-z]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

that isnt exactally right as kazuma's dad has 2 disadvantages during the fight ~

1) he was overconfident and underestimated kazuma
2) he was cause off guard by his son's summoning speed and before he realized that he was in deep shi~ he didnt have any time to do anything...

id say if they both knew each other's abilities then maybe kazuma wouldnt have won without envoking the contract...

Spoiler for ep 5:

but boy was his contract powers badass! too bad it doesnt last long >.<

(1) isn't a true tactical disadvantage, just plain hubris.

(2) is a disadvantage for Kazuma's father specifically in terms of summoning speed, but it's inherent to their skill sets and not some external factor applied to the fight to give one side an advantage.

Still a fair fight in the end.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

Also i dont think it was the speed that caused him pause for thought, rather the number of spirits he was able to summon. I got the impression he was summoning a lot more than was normal for ANY elemental summoning, which makes sense since he's a contractor.

Just the speed of the summoning usually wouldnt bother his old man, after all the Azure Flame is (im guessing) the ultimate fire spell. I dont think even Ayano can use it yet, Kazuma says its the first time he's ever seen it.

I also dont think he was particularly over confident, sure he refered to Kazuma's attempts as gimicks, but even then he was being cautious and could tell his son was good. And when Kazuma finally let loose, his old man was smiling, i got the impression it was 'im glad you found your own place' sort of smile. Like his father was proud his son has achieved something.

[Deathkillz]

1) well it sets the mental mood as it would seem to me that he was just toying with kazuma for started while kazuma was 100% serious with the fight ~

2) ahh but if he had known the vast differences in speed then he wouldnt have attempted to launch that badass attack ~ he would have picked a different fighting method to combat kazuma ~ its just that he wanted to totally overpower him which caused him to lose the fight (im sure he had other was of defeating kazuma if he really wanted too ~ also it seems that once started he cannot call back the attack until it is completed thats why he couldnt escape the wind (imo)

[Guppy]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

1) well it sets the mental mood as it would seem to me that he was just toying with kazuma for started while kazuma was 100% serious with the fight ~

I don't know about that. Kazuma certainly started with a more serious expression, but he was still able to hold his own when his father began to up the ante. That implies to me that both of them were feeling each other out initially.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

2) ahh but if he had known the vast differences in speed then he wouldnt have attempted to launch that badass attack ~ he would have picked a different fighting method to combat kazuma ~ its just that he wanted to totally overpower him which caused him to lose the fight (im sure he had other was of defeating kazuma if he really wanted too ~ also it seems that once started he cannot call back the attack until it is completed thats why he couldnt escape the wind (imo)

A loss is a loss, as they say. Certainly a flame user of Genma's experience would approach a second fight differently, and it's by no means certain that Kazuma would prevail twice in a row... but I don't think it's assured that he wouldn't, and I'd bet we haven't seen half of Kazuma's tricks yet either.

And if nothing else, Kazuma's powers are certainly better suited to disengaging from the battle if he ever finds himself at a disadvantage.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

You have to remember that while kazuma used his contractor abilities, he didnt actually do anything other than restrain the youma. Once he had it captured he let Ayano kill it. I doubt we've seen 1/10th of what he can do if he really puts his mind to it.

And as for the exhaustion, we dont know that the few minutes he gave were his limit. Thinking about it i feel that he feels exhausted only AFTER he's stopped. Sure i bet if it was used over a prolonged period it would be different, but some how i doubt a element king would make a contract with someone who could only last a minute of so of battle, do you?

[kaerstan01]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

that isnt exactally right as kazuma's dad has 2 disadvantages during the fight ~

1) he was overconfident and underestimated kazuma
2) he was cause off guard by his son's summoning speed and before he realized that he was in deep shi~ he didnt have any time to do anything...

id say if they both knew each other's abilities then maybe kazuma wouldnt have won without envoking the contract...

1)you have a point there, and that's his dad's fault
2)he got(maybe) intimidated by the speed of his casting or the spirits summoned by kazuma,but it might have been too late for him to make a move lol or maybe when kazuma saw that his dad was taking too much time in casting that spell, he thought about of casting the strongest of his quickest spells and blew him away lol and that would be called tactics

first of all, who would like to show or reavel all of his "tricks" to his opponent. meaning, if they had known each others capabilities, they would have used or unleashed their "secret" technique that the other doesnt know about. sure we wouldnt know coz the fight already ended(lamely ended ). the fact that kazuma used some spells that he didnt end up using to his dad could support this argument of mine. like that "down burst"(according to ren, really dont know if it was actualy the name of the spell lol) thing that was so freakin cool it wouldve been cooler if he used it to finish off his dad lol (ya, and that park shoulve been wrecked w/ a huge crater at the center )

but i wish ayano would be capable of controling the "azure flame" in the future, (that would be cool) so that she could roast kazuma when she feels to, hahaha

[lightbringer]

That's too cruel. If he used that down burst on his dad, the old man would've died for sure Unlike Ayano, Kazuma holds back against relatives

[kaerstan01]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

You have to remember that while kazuma used his contractor abilities, he didnt actually do anything other than restrain the youma. Once he had it captured he let Ayano kill it. I doubt we've seen 1/10th of what he can do if he really puts his mind to it.

And as for the exhaustion, we dont know that the few minutes he gave were his limit. Thinking about it i feel that he feels exhausted only AFTER he's stopped. Sure i bet if it was used over a prolonged period it would be different, but some how i doubt a element king would make a contract with someone who could only last a minute of so of battle, do you?

well ya, its not that he couldn't handle the youma by himself (where he was squeezing the hell out of the youma by his summoned tornadoes(disregarding his slow casting time)) he was like giving ayano the privelege to inflict the final blow for her to gain more confidence(a reasonable confidence) and experiece,as if he was teaching ayano his ideals.
ayano's experience w/ kazuma helped her mature and gain more trust in kazuma. she even leveled up'd a bit, both in power(crimson red flame) and in mind. and it was really fitting for her in giving the final blow because of her enraiha(i'm pertaining to its actual appearance as a sword and a melee weapon) that could hit the youma "directly" piercing its neck or slashing its body.

Originally Posted by lightbringer

That's too cruel. If he used that down burst on his dad, the old man would've died for sure Unlike Ayano, Kazuma holds back against relatives

aww... yeah.... never thought about that

[PreSage]

The impression I get from posts so far is that most regard wind power as more of a non-weapon, non-combat element but I disagree. Recall that Ryuu (however you spell his name ), used his wind element like blades (and so did Kazuma) to kill the Kannagi and basically slice off Kazuma's apartment building (there goes the security deposit). Enraiha gives form to the fire as a sword but the wind itself can become blades - if we think about slicing and dicing factors .

That aside, I'm sure looking forward to seeing other combat strategies and forms both fire and wind can take up - and I'm also hoping to see other elements that may appear, if they appear at all in this story.

[kaerstan01]

Originally Posted by PreSage

The impression I get from posts so far is that most regard wind power as more of a non-weapon, non-combat element but I disagree. Recall that Ryuu (however you spell his name ), used his wind element like blades (and so did Kazuma) to kill the Kannagi and basically slice off Kazuma's apartment building (there goes the security deposit). Enraiha gives form to the fire as a sword but the wind itself can become blades - if we think about slicing and dicing factors .

That aside, I'm sure looking forward to seeing other combat strategies and forms both fire and wind can take up - and I'm also hoping to see other elements that may appear, if they appear at all in this story.

i agree w/ you if fire can cook, wind can chop hope the two of them would come up w/ a combo move,but that would be corny lol but might also be cool

[lightbringer]

Ryuuya , or Ryūya if you want, was full of Youki, and Kazuma is a Contractor, so neither one is a very good indication of typical wind power. The way I see it, it's not so much that it's a non-combat art, it's more of a question of efficiency. We'll see later on if this is really the case or not, though.

Spoiler:

As for other elements.... don't take my word for it, but I gathered that there will be following appearances:
a flame user girl from an American family, who will be a rival for ayano
a silver-haired water user who attacks ayano and kazuma
another wind user who seems to be a friend of Kazuma and is the owner of some kind of wind artifact (like enraiha)

If you can read Japanese, you can verify/correct this info for yourself based on the Japanese wiki entry for KnS.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

Ryuuya , or Ryūya if you want, was full of Youki, and Kazuma is a Contractor, so neither one is a very good indication of typical wind power. The way I see it, it's not so much that it's a non-combat art, it's more of a question of efficiency. We'll see later on if this is really the case or not, though.

yea for ryuuya and kazuma its a special case...i still havent gotten me head over how kazuma managed to block the combined wind attacks from the wind clan so as i took it was that normal wind power for the average mage is pretty weak (or the fact that the fire clan has supressed the powers of the wind clan but a huge margin via limiters ~ well that was the reason why the guy wanted to release their spirit king )

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by PreSage

The impression I get from posts so far is that most regard wind power as more of a non-weapon, non-combat element but I disagree. Recall that Ryuu (however you spell his name ), used his wind element like blades (and so did Kazuma) to kill the Kannagi and basically slice off Kazuma's apartment building (there goes the security deposit). Enraiha gives form to the fire as a sword but the wind itself can become blades - if we think about slicing and dicing factors .

Going on that it also appears that Kazuma can summon power a bit faster then fire users as demonstrated against his father but then also it did take him a bit longer to stir up what he needed against.....whats his name...Im bad with names in new anime Maybe it depends on what he's summoning...

hehehe Im a hopeless fangirl, when Kazuma kinda half-fainted in epi 4 I was like O_O (flashes to GH epi 9 )

[Klashikari]

Well... most of the time, Elemental Magic convention works like this, in term of "speed" :
Wind > Water / Fire (arguably, both can be interchangeable) > Earth.

as for the summoning, there is too much factors, and again, it depend how the universe/story of the said anime/book/etc works. (Character skill, experience, affinity/synchronization with their element/summoned creature, place, feelings, etc)

there isn't really a way to determine how "fair and square" Kazuma defeated his father.
nevertherless, except for his carerelessness, the almighty enjustsushi didn't have any handicap : no real "wind advantage" environment, both contestants having a good physical condition during the fight, no external distraction etc.

if we add how both fighters fought physically and psychologically, there isn't any way to contest Kazuma's victory.



as for the little discussion about the elemental magic, be aware that wind magic, except if Kaze no Stigma works differently than most of fantasy worlds, is thin air from the start.
Obviously, to "chop" or being able to "air dance", the performer would need a certain amount of energy/mana to manipulate the air.
Unlike the 3 other element, the air cannot do any harm alone, except if poisoned/modified in a certain way. (Water just need some movement force, or Temperature Manipulation. Earth would most likely mainpulate the ground, and in some extent, metals)
And since, Air doesn't really have a "matter interaction", the manipulation should require even more energy/mana to be able to "chop/cut/slash" etc... to deal any serious physical damage.

[LKK]

My thoughts on episode 4.

On the plus side:
-- Kazuma's contractor eyes looked really cool. From the OP, I fully expected them to turn blue. But the sparkly shiny aspect was a surprise. Very nice-looking.
-- The interactions between Kazuma and Ren were a delight to watch. Alternately loving and funny, the two have good dynamic. I hope we'll see more brotherly interactions in the future.
-- Kazuma's head butt to Ayano and his belief that sacrificing yourself in battle is tantemount to giving up. That's a viewpoint you don't often hear espoused in anime.
-- Kazuma visiting his dad in the hospital. I didn't expect Kazuma to be so willing to reconcile.

On the minus side:
-- I was disappointed in the battle with the god-being. The show built him up to be a major opponent. However Ayano and Kazuma defeated him with comparatively little time or effort. I'm not a fan of protracted fight scenes that go on for seemingly endless episodes. However, with all the prefight worry the god-being generated, I expected him to be harder to defeat. Even Ryuuya seemed more dangerous. Ultimately, all the god-being did was rip Ayano's clothing. At least Ryuuya managed to mortally poison her. This was the god-being that was going to destroy the entire Kannagi clan? The wind-user clan placed their faith and future in the wrong god-being.

Overall:
The battle was such a disappointment that it overweighed the episode's good points. Episode 4 is the first episode that I thought was a let down when I finished watching it.

[kaerstan01]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Well... most of the time, Elemental Magic convention works like this, in term of "speed" :
Wind > Water / Fire (arguably, both can be interchangeable) > Earth.

as for the summoning, there is too much factors, and again, it depend how the universe/story of the said anime/book/etc works. (Character skill, experience, affinity/synchronization with their element/summoned creature, place, feelings, etc)

there isn't really a way to determine how "fair and square" Kazuma defeated his father.
nevertherless, except for his carerelessness, the almighty enjustsushi didn't have any handicap : no real "wind advantage" environment, both contestants having a good physical condition during the fight, no external distraction etc.

if we add how both fighters fought physically and psychologically, there isn't any way to contest Kazuma's victory.



as for the little discussion about the elemental magic, be aware that wind magic, except if Kaze no Stigma works differently than most of fantasy worlds, is thin air from the start.
Obviously, to "chop" or being able to "air dance", the performer would need a certain amount of energy/mana to manipulate the air.
Unlike the 3 other element, the air cannot do any harm alone, except if poisoned/modified in a certain way. (Water just need some movement force, or Temperature Manipulation. Earth would most likely mainpulate the ground, and in some extent, metals)
And since, Air doesn't really have a "matter interaction", the manipulation should require even more energy/mana to be able to "chop/cut/slash" etc... to deal any serious physical damage.

yup, you are so right on that, thats why i'm basing my arguments/theories of what i see and observe only in the world of kaze no stigma. there are some clear evidences found in the first 4 episodes that proves that wind really cuts, slice, mince and blasts anything along its path(if not deflected). as for kazuma being exempted from those "average" wind mage, how do you explain kazuma's dad that has gained control of the so called "azure flame"and also considered as kannagi's supreme spellcaster(he can even control his fire,burning only his main target,talk about detonators<,<)?? the thing is, kazuma and his dad are top notch mages, so putting them in the same league with those "average" or "typical" wind and fire users isn't really am appropriate thing to do.

but, oh well, its onlyv been 4 episodes so far to draw any conclusions

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by LKK

The battle was such a disappointment that it overweighed the episode's good points. Episode 4 is the first episode that I thought was a let down when I finished watching it.

Your disappointment is understandable.
however, we don't have a big picture of magic scale in Kaze no Stigma.

yeah, Kazuma appears to be a "Kira" (only the "god-like" uberness, don't even compare their character XD), but the balance is rather well kept so far.

except if AniYoshi missed their translation, the youma isn't a god, but merely a entity, with a specific Elemental power.
while on the other hand, Kazuma has a contract with the Wind Spirit KING (not to mention that the way how to gain Contracts isn't really depicted as a walk to the parc)
And the Kannagi has Enraiha, an artifact which isn't a factor to laugh at.

sounds like the fuuga were just unlucky that Kazuma entered in the fray

Originally Posted by kaerstan01

there are some clear evidences found in the first 4 episodes that proves that wind really cuts, slice, mince and blasts anything along its path(if not deflected).

of course. my post were only referring the fact that Wind may not be as "powerful" as it is from the start. (since it would need more energy/mana to manipulate as an offensive magic)
this means that Kazuma is really powerful to manipulate the wind magic in such scale.

but again, if KnS shows that even rookies can create a swift wind blade which can cut metal, that would lessen credits to kazuma

as for kazuma being exempted from those "average" wind mage, how do you explain kazuma's dad that has gained control of the so called "azure flame"and also considered as kannagi's supreme spellcaster?? the thing is, kazuma and his dad are top notch mages, so putting them in the same league with those "average" or "typical" wind and fire users isn't really am appropriate thing to do.

but, oh well, its onlyv been 4 episodes so far to draw any conclusions

Hey, we had the same opinion !
i think i was a bit too clumsy with my rant about elemental magic ~~