Mahouka LN - Yotsuba Inheritance Arc (Volume 16) Discussion / Poll

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

Yes that's what I get from the spoiler too, but this still mean they are real sibling plus the spoiler mention tatsuya did a DNA test and it confirm that they are sibling.

and Maya taunted him about if he did it himself or had a hospital do it. AKA he used a hospital and Maya had the results changed

[Armando99]

Not if they were from different eggs.
They just have the same "surrogate" mother then.

[RaymondSageClark]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

So Miyuki has the same parents as Tatsuya, and she was altered after she was born.
Keep in mind that I'm against Miyuki x Tatsuya, I'm pointing out that this is incest simply because it is, not because I want it to.
Even if they had different, I would consider someone who was born from the same womb as me as my sibling.

As I said before there is nothing about the father of tats and miyuki, even a real translator said we need to understand all of this can be a huge lie from Maya but one thing is already stated coming from genetic things and other info.

They are not siblings, end of the discussion.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

and Maya taunted him about if he did it himself or had a hospital do it. AKA he used a hospital and Maya had the results changed

But in that spoiler it was stated that they have the same parent so even if the DNA test was change by maya it still doesn't change that they are sibling, it's just false because of the genetic modification miyuki had.

@raymond, you totally left out who are the mother thought
, unless you are saying maya is tatsuya's real mom or that some unknown people in the Yotsuba are their parent and that both the egg and sperm were donated by different people and Miya just carry them which is weird as hell unless something is wrong with Miya's egg.

[-Mahesvara_]

I hope somewhere down the line we get Miya's pov about all of this in a flashback chapter or something.

[RaymondSageClark]

@luffyxnami I can agree with you about Miya but you need to have something in mind:
-Long before Tatsuya and Miyuki born, magicians were genetically created and modified to fulfill some goals. That means that tech is not lost, is just illegal right now.
-Unless we have more detailed info about it we can't assume who is the father or sperm donator, almost everything is based on assumptions from other places.
-Morally speaking you can say Miya is the mother of Tats and Miyuki, but technically and scientifically speaking they aren't siblings based on 2 things:
a) Different DNA
b) DNA test was falsified by Maya

If I get new info from the translator about this matter I'm going to post that here.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by RaymondSageClark

@luffyxnami I can agree with you about Miya but you need to have something in mind:
-Long before Tatsuya and Miyuki born, magicians were genetically created and modified to fulfill some goals. That means that tech is not lost, is just illegal right now.
-Unless we have more detailed info about it we can't assume who is the father or sperm donator, almost everything is based on assumptions from other places.
-Morally speaking you can say Miya is the mother of Tats and Miyuki, but technically and scientifically speaking they aren't siblings based on 2 things:
a) Different DNA
b) DNA test was falsified by Maya

If I get new info from the translator about this matter I'm going to post that here.

The DNA test falsified by maya was a guess due to maya taunt, no prove whatsoever plus no matter how you cut it even if the sperm donors are different if the eggs is from the same person then they are sibling.

[Armando99]

People are still shell shocked from all the recent spoilers cause it mostly didn't go the way they wanted or expected. As such, they are going to nit pick everything until it all becomes clear.

IMO, regardless of how much arguing we do from now on, nothing will change until further clarification. Just like Raymond said, wait till we get more.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by RaymondSageClark

As I said before there is nothing about the father of tats and miyuki, even a real translator said we need to understand all of this can be a huge lie from Maya but one thing is already stated coming from genetic things and other info.

They are not siblings, end of the discussion.

Again, even if all what you said about their donors being different is true, they were STILL in the same womb, are they biologically siblings ? No
Do I think they are sibling ? I do, and I'm pretty sure many will agree on this point because you can't just base things on biology, even two individuals who were adopted by someone since their birth would be considered sibling in our society, the notion of sibling isn't entirely dependent on the biological side of things.
A more extreme example would be an individual being raised by an adoptive mother, even when he becomes an adult it doesn't mean that him having a relationship with her isn't incestuous.

[RaymondSageClark]

All what are you doing is nitpicking, nothing more. I talk based on information provided by one of the few Mahouka translators out there (as amtro do as well pages ago) and knowledge about human genetics.

I'm going to wait until Syokool do the summary for more clarifications about this thing, but the amount of people trying to keep tatsuya and Miyuki as siblings is unbelievable even if they know nothing about this matter.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by RaymondSageClark

All what are you doing is nitpicking, nothing more. I talk based on information provided by one of the few Mahouka translators out there (as amtro do as well pages ago) and knowledge about human genetics.

I'm going to wait until Syokool do the summary for more clarifications about this thing, but the amount of people trying to keep tatsuya and Miyuki as siblings is unbelievable even if they know nothing about this matter.

Uh, they are still siblings. Just not genetically.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Again, even if all what you said about their donors being different is true, they were STILL in the same womb, are they biologically siblings ? No
Do I think they are sibling ? I do, and I'm pretty sure many will agree on this point because you can't just base things on biology, even two individuals who were adopted by someone since their birth would be considered sibling in our society, the notion of sibling isn't entirely dependent on the biological side of things.
A more extreme example would be an individual being raised by an adoptive mother, even when he becomes an adult it doesn't mean that him having a relationship with her isn't incestuous.

This is just your personal version of what constitute an incest. Look at the real definition though.

Morality is an issue that is better left to the side when talking about difficult issues involving science. If history were to be our guide, we would still be in the dark ages if the scientists from the past conformed to what the society back then consider "moral". It is alright to consider it, but it should not be the primary factor in the final decision.

Morality is a very subjective term. Look at the current situation around the world. Groups of people are forcing their version of "morality" to others who does not quite have the same view as they do.

I know I am going way out of the thread's topic but I just wanted to give my two cents worth.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by Zoks

Uh, they are still siblings. Just not genetically.

Genetically they were sibling too until miyuki was modify. The only way that they are not sibling is that the donor of the sperm and eggs are different and think that's highly unlikely especially when it com to the eggs.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

Genetically they were sibling too until miyuki was modify. The only way that they are not sibling is that the donor of the sperm and eggs are different and think that's highly unlikely especially when it com to the eggs.

I'm not even worried about all that. They popped out the same hole.

[Armando99]

That is a dilemma that is still plaguing society right now. It seems to some people that regardless if the woman is just the surrogate (fertilized egg is implanted in her ovum), should she be considered the parent or should the parents be the one's who the egg was taken from and who fertilized it?

Just because they popped out of the same hole might not be the "cure it all" answer.

[My Zodiac Aries]

after all of this irregular plot, i'm not surprised if Maya said she killed miya and manipulates the cause of the death.

[Narvi]

Miyuki's genes are altered to the point they're genetic pool is so different, that they can't be considered as siblings anymore

No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, it is still incest.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Again, even if all what you said about their donors being different is true, they were STILL in the same womb, are they biologically siblings ? No
Do I think they are sibling ? I do, and I'm pretty sure many will agree on this point because you can't just base things on biology, even two individuals who were adopted by someone since their birth would be considered sibling in our society, the notion of sibling isn't entirely dependent on the biological side of things.
A more extreme example would be an individual being raised by an adoptive mother, even when he becomes an adult it doesn't mean that him having a relationship with her isn't incestuous.

You are one close minded individual.

[Lucarion]

OK, just to clear things up:

Tatsuya and Miyuki are true siblings born of the same father and mother, but their genes have been tinkered so much they might as well be strangers. In order to marry, Maya decides to present them to the world as first cousins.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by IceHism

It's not really a rule. It's just implied etiquette or an unsaid but accepted rule.

there's no real consequences outside of the fact that people will dislike you even more which can lead to other things...



I think people don't expect others to do it but they send the threat anyways just to try and scare them (even if it is futile in the end!)

It's not just etiquette. The 10MC are the symbol of Japan's magical might and any sort of infighting or backstabbing would be fatal. Therefore, it is imperative that they are able to trust each other to some degree and communicate openly.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I doubt Mayumi would feel betrayed. She already suspects that he is associated with the Yotsuba (she think he may be an extra) and she also realizes how unreasonable it can be to be part of the 10 master clans. If anything she would likely be one who would remain Tatsuya's ally even when all others have turned against him.

As for who she will be engaged to, it is like Itsuwa since Koichi sees him as being the easiest to control.

Mayumi mistakenly concluded that he was an Extra. Not Yotsuba. Erika concluded that he was a Yotsuba.

Originally Posted by RaymondSageClark

A lot had been happened here since the spoils come out, atleast we already have some confirmations from Syokool (glad to know spanish) and other places. To me everything make sense, Maya is doing all this just for vengeance but I feel like Tatsuya is not going to help her on this matter.

Something stay in my mind and that's mahouka getting an end on vol 20, there is so much to explode in this novel, an entire world to use, interesting characters, politics, etc. I wish if the author just finish the school life of Tatsuya and Miyuki on vol 20 and continue with their college life on some next volumes or maybe his life being the head of Yotsuba clan along with Miyuki.

Leaving aside my delusions about the amount of volumes, I want to see on vol 17 the reactions of all the people around Tatsuya, specially from Mayumi / juumonji and Masaki. Also the face of Lina when she noticed Tatsuya is one of the most powerful mages out there.

The current events have nothing to do with "vengeance." Maya believes Tatsuya to be the incarnate of her desire for vengeance against the cruel world. It's not like she wants to destroy the world or anything.

All that has been announced is that Tatsuya and Miyuki are Yotsuba engaged to each other. Tatsuya's abilities have not been made public.

Originally Posted by Lucarion

OK, just to clear things up:

Tatsuya and Miyuki are true siblings born of the same father and mother, but their genes have been tinkered so much they might as well be strangers. In order to marry, Maya decides to present them to the world as first cousins.

Tatsuya is 100% natural grown. Miya was his birth mother. He was born from her womb. He was not born of Maya's eggs.

Speaking of reactions, I wonder how Shizuku's mom will react. She was pretty suspicious of Tatsuya from the start, almost prejudiced.