[Manga] Naruto Chapter 529 Discussion

[james0246]

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spoilers are out...

-Naruto, whilst training in Bijuu-Mode, senses a disturbance in the Force. It seems he can feel Kinkaku using the Kyuubi’s chakra…

-Cut to the Alliance headquarters, were Kinkaku’s transformation is revealed. A, realizing that there is no way to properly combat this new foe, releases the 5th of the legendary Treasures to suppress the 6-Tail Kinkaku (the 5th treasure is a pot). One of A’s secretaries uses an unknown ability to instantly transport the tool to Darui on the battlefield.

-Cut to the battlefield, where Ino, Chouji, and Shikimaru have joined up with Darui in fighting Kinkaku. They use their various trademark techniques, but Chouji and Shikimaru fail at containing the beast. It is Ino who succeeds at felling the beast by using Shintenshin at the exact moment Darui uses the Legendary Weapon (the pot is another word game weapon, and it has the ability to suck in your opponents only if they verbally respond to the pot users command).

-Chapter ends with Kinkaku sealed, but not before giving a final speech about his awesomeness, right before Darui seals the lid on the brothers…

[Nobodyman9]

Confirmed spoilers

Spoiler for Spoiler Pics:

Spoiler for Summary:

Naruto is training with bee. Naruto realizes the abnormality outside.

Word spreads in the HQ that Kinkaku has turned Bijuu. To suppress him, they need the last treasure. That thing (can't read the pot's name... something with "Amber (Kohaku)") is under Raikage's possession. The sacred treasure is sent to the battlefield using telepathy by Raikage's secretary.

Ino, Shikamaru, Chouji joins the battle. Chouji uses Nikudan-sensha on Kinkaku. Shikamaru uses Kagemane on him, but gets pulled because Kinkaku was too strong. Ino uses Shintenshin. Darui calls Kinkaku's name, to which Ino inside Kinkaku responds "YES!". Ino returns to her body. Kinkaku gets pulled into the pot.

Raikage's secretary's name is Mabui (meaning "bright" or "dazzling"... another pun). His jutsu is physical transportation of things at the speed of light.

Spoiler for My take:

So yeah, another word game item, InoShikaCho using the same techniques they've used a billion times and another new and pointless character because we really need another one of those.

[neshru]

lol, mr. Naruto hater is the first to post Naruto spoilers... to hate on them

[astayanax]

So the Bleach war continues?

[Fran~]

GOD... i do think that Raikage's secretary is the hottest, more than Karui, Samui and everything... <3

[Doma Yuset]

Pretty interesting spoilers, Raikage's secretary seems cool and overall I like the ending given to Ginkaku and Kinkaku.

[james0246]

So Ino saves the day...never saw that coming...

Well, at least the annoying word game battles are over. Please Kishimoto, move on to some interesting characters...

[neshru]

Originally Posted by james0246

Please Kishimoto, move on to some interesting characters...

Or even better, move on with the plot. Show us the tactical consequences of the movements of each troop, or something. Don't turn this arc into another Hueco Mundo arc.

[Johnny]

I wonder how he'll make Naruto ignore what he felt so he can remain the oblivious idiot as to what's going on this time, gas...?

A female character actually accomplished something again. Does this mean she's going to die within the next few chapters...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by neshru

Or even better, move on with the plot. Show us the tactical consequences of the movements of each troop, or something. Don't turn this arc into another Hueco Mundo arc.

See, I'm not really expecting that anytime soon, so the best I can hope for is some interesting characters to appear. Sadly, Kishimoto decided to waste Shikimaru on this encounter, and many of the other Konoha characters have been shown (if not showcased), so unless we jump to Gaara's fight with the Kages, I fear we are going to be stuck with another no-name recently introduced character that we don't really care about...

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

So Ino saves the day...never saw that coming...

-What's this? A woman doing something useful? In MY Naruto? Go figure, Ino actually took down a powerful (at least dangerous) opponent. Bravo Kishimoto, bravo. Now just don't have her killed by having a random pebble drop on her and you're good in my book.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-What's this? A woman doing something useful? In MY Naruto? Go figure, Ino actually took down a powerful (at least dangerous) opponent. Bravo Kishimoto, bravo. Now just don't have her killed by having a random pebble drop on her and you're good in my book.

I should clarify that Ino assists in the take down, and she only shines because the deck was amazingly stacked in her favour. But, she is still the primary reason why Kinkaku is defeat (which is still a little mindboggling), so credit is definitely due...

[Sabaku Kyu]

According to some additional spoilers the Kin Gin bros can transform not only because they spent two weeks in the Kyuubi stomach, but also ate some of its flesh during that time.

Cloud attempts to duplicate this with the Hachibi (by having ninja eat from its tentacles) resulted in death. So apparently the brothers are special and it's implied they're directly related to Rikudou Sennin

[james0246]

Additionally, a recent spoiler indicates that next week will be about Asuma and Shikimaru.

[Cael]

Ino, Chouji, and Shikimaru show up just like that huh? Oh-kaay. Was Shikaku referring to the kids and not the adults when he said the Ino-Shika-Chou trio should make an appearance? I can understand Ino being there, her division was already moving that way. But for Shikamaru to just up and leave Gaara, I thought he had some responsibility in that division. Is he going to bounce back and forth? Boy, this country they're in got a whole lot smaller.

^(A crappy setup, but a setup none the less for the team 10 reunion with Asuma)

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

So Ino saves the day...never saw that coming...

Well, at least the annoying word game battles are over. Please Kishimoto, move on to some interesting characters...

Ino had to rival Sakura sooner or later. Count it to be her only heroic strike for the next five to ten years.
Not bad for a healer, but then again, bad style to waste the super brain Shikamaru like that... makes him look ridiculously useless. On the other hand, he does what Tarantino did in Inglorious Basterds... You expect Shikamaru to solve the riddle, but you're on the wrong track.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Maybe these twin brothers were introduced so that a new revelation can be made about the 9 tails, the other demons, and even the sage and his special weapons. The chakra of the demons is some unknown stuff, Kishimoto never revealed how he thinks about this, or he just doesn't know what to do with this issue. If the brothers were introduced just to make some ninja-war-chapters that would be quite boring, this stupid word game is not good enough to waste a chapter, unless all this has a greater purpose.

First we were told that the demons have infinite chakra, or let's say huge amount that cannot be understood by ninjas. But is it infinite or finite amount. Of course it should not be infinite since then it could not be divided into smaller parts. We know that the sage divided the demon to 9 lesser demons, then Minato divided the 9 tails into 2 parts. So the chakra at any time is finite, but if the chakra that can be created by the demons is infinite that means that the demons themselves are immortal souls, and immortality means they will never cease to create chakra from their soul so the chakra created is finite but with time tending to infinity it is infinite as their life span is. And if a demon "dies" that just means his body was destroyed or removed and his soul will be removed from this world for a short time. But it was explained by Minato and Kushina that if the host dies then the demon will be removed from this world only for a shorter time period, then it will somehow come back to life, and have it's body back to contain it's soul. We can assume that the kyuubi helped Naruto (when Jiraiya was training Naruto to summon toads) because it didn't want to be removed from this world, but still it's strange that Kishimoto didn't explain kyuubi's fear since if what Minato said is true then the kyuubi should be free when it comes back to this world. Seems like a plot hole. Or the explanation is that kyuubi simply was sure that Naruto will lose control and then it can break free back much faster then dying with Naruto and waiting years in some underworld place.

Now we also know that a smaller amount of kyuubi chakra was eaten by the twin brothers. But the kyuubi chakra can only be created by the kyuubi's soul and body, that should mean that the twins should run out of this stolen chakra. Why didn't they run out of this chakra when consuming it in kyuubi-mode? A piece of flesh that was removed from the kyuubi and digested and is now part of the body of these brothers can create kyuubi chakra on it's own? This sounds a stupid explanation but it could be true. I mean we have seen Kabuto using Orochimaru's body to strengthen himself, and also the Zetsu clones. So this is not unprecedented, but eating the demon is just a lame story compared to Kabuto's medical science expertise

[AuroraFlash]

Well, it seems the demons are truly immortal and thus no one ever managed to kill them. Instead they were able to seal them. On the other hand, maybe they are just too precious to kill them.

I think the amount of chakra they generate is infinite while the concentration of chakra is different and it seems the 9-Tails (Kyuubi) has the strongest concentration of chakra and thus is most similar to the Jyuubi and thus can be controlled by the Sharingan which somehow appeared on the Jyuubi's body and is a descendant of the Rikudou Senin's original eye power (doujutsu).
We know that the concentration is so high that Akatsuki needs to counterweight the Kyuubi with all other eight demons.
That way it seems as if the Rikudou Senin was just able to tear off some of the Jyuubi's chakra, but the biggest amount of chakra, I call it "core", could not be reduced any further and thus it became the Kyuubi (with just one tail off compared to the real thing).

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Now we also know that a smaller amount of kyuubi chakra was eaten by the twin brothers. But the kyuubi chakra can only be created by the kyuubi's soul and body, that should mean that the twins should run out of this stolen chakra. Why didn't they run out of this chakra when consuming it in kyuubi-mode? A piece of flesh that was removed from the kyuubi and digested and is now part of the body of these brothers can create kyuubi chakra on it's own? This sounds a stupid explanation but it could be true. I mean we have seen Kabuto using Orochimaru's body to strengthen himself, and also the Zetsu clones. So this is not unprecedented, but eating the demon is just a lame story compared to Kabuto's medical science expertise

I only know the part with Sora which I know belongs to filler content not anime, but I don't care about that right now because since Naruto Shippuuden it must have become obvious to anyone here that the fillers try to explain certain things and provide additional content to the manga which is limited to a fixed amount of pages and I like to use some of that input just now.
Sora developed the exact same powers from chakra that leaked from the Kyuubi. Despite those brothers, he had no control over it but then again Sai was made like that while the brothers fought inside the Kyuubi's stomach for weeks and thus prove a strong will.
Once you start questioning the Kyuubi's chakra given to different people you have to start asking questions about Orochimaru's Cursed Seal because he just bit people in order to give them a power multiplier of 10 and it's unclear where that power came from. There seem to be a lot of demons. It always seemed as if Sasuke had one inside him, one born from his own pain and hatred. Zabusa's demon could even be seen by others. Maybe it all relates to the theory of people fighting with their inner demon(s).
As we know, Shukaku got power over his host because of his host's emotions and the Kyuubi used Naruto's emotional sensitivity in order to gain control. It seems that pain and agony have something to do with it.

[Shining Celebi]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

First we were told that the demons have infinite chakra, or let's say huge amount that cannot be understood by ninjas. But is it infinite or finite amount. Of course it should not be infinite since then it could not be divided into smaller parts. We know that the sage divided the demon to 9 lesser demons, then Minato divided the 9 tails into 2 parts.

Sure you can. Infinity/9 is still infinity. You can even have different sizes of infinity - for example, the number of real numbers is greater than the number of integers, but they're both infinite.

But I think you're right...it's simply an incredibly huge but finite amount. Although it seems to me that as the manga has moved on, Kishimoto has continually downgraded the power of the demons. Now there are even regular people who possess as much chakra as a demon, and we witnessed Killer Bee run out pretty quickly in the Kisame fight (absorption or no absorption, you would expect the second-strongest demon to not run out of chakra after a couple minutes of sucking.)

To me the more interesting thing about Kinkaku and Ginkaku is their alleged relation to the Sage. Before everyone we knew whose power was closely descended from the Sage of the Six Paths was good - or at least like Madara or even the Sage's son, we could understand their reasons for being evil. But Ginkaku and Kinkaku, they don't have reasons, they seem as though they are fundamentally evil, they are acting like animals who only wish for death and destruction. To me, I think this is maybe leading to the Sage of the Six Paths not being a saint or maybe it's just the Juubi's influence.

I don't really think Kishimoto has thought through the relationship between minds and souls and chakras and how demons can die and come back. At first it seemed like the kyuubi would have had to come back because it was part of some natural balance of the world, but now we know the kyuubi isn't a natural occurrence at all. Still, maybe it's just the juubi's chakra must remain in the world to keep the balance and the real god Nagato mentioned set all this up, but we don't have any reason to believe this yet. And again, earlier we were told that chakra is only created on demand from stamina and spiritual energy, but now it seems much more important, people will die from running out of chakra and not just stamina, and chakra can live on as a seperate being, like Minato. At the same time it seems like the mind is a totally separate thing, Ino can transfer her mind into Kinkaku and say his word and even though she's in his body his soul will be sealed away and not her, and we also know the kyuubi has mind and chakra, and they can be separated. And souls at the same time can be cut up and divided into pieces...none of it makes any sense.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

Sure you can. Infinity/9 is still infinity. You can even have different sizes of infinity - for example, the number of real numbers is greater than the number of integers, but they're both infinite.

I was referring to the fact that Minato says it is not possible to seal the kyuubi into Naruto as it is, so he had to split it into half. However if the whole is infinite then both halves are infinite too, so it's meaningless to divide it. The same goes for the 10-tails, since it was divided in order to have 9 smaller demons that individiually can be controlled/used, as opposed to the 10-tails. And finally of course in nature there are no such things that are infinite, since that would destroy the world in the end. So it just means that the "infinite" part is not about current chakra amount but about the amount of chakra that an immortal being like a demon can create over infinite time of it's life. On the other hand all demons can create much more chakra in one second than any ninja can, but it is still a finite number, and also it seems they can store up a finite amount of chakra but that amount is much larger then a human can. We see when KillerBee's chakra is sucked away by Kisame+Samehada then KillerBee is beaten, which means that Samehada can suck away chakra at a higher rate than KillerBee+8-tails can create it. Of course it was explained that this rate of chakra creation is limitied by KillerBee's own chakra because if he pulled too much chakra from the demon he would be eaten by it, similarly to the nature chakra thing. But also the demon must have a limit on it's chakra creation rate, since otherwise he could just spam the world with chakra balls until the earth and universe is destroyed

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

But I think you're right...it's simply an incredibly huge but finite amount. Although it seems to me that as the manga has moved on, Kishimoto has continually downgraded the power of the demons. Now there are even regular people who possess as much chakra as a demon, and we witnessed Killer Bee run out pretty quickly in the Kisame fight (absorption or no absorption, you would expect the second-strongest demon to not run out of chakra after a couple minutes of sucking.)

But it was never said that a ninja has as much power as a demon. Sure the raikage can raise the chakra level but there must be a limitation to that, and it should be that the raikage can maintain his demon-level only for a few minutes whereas a demon is always at that level. It was not the demon that ran out of chakra but the host, it was explained to Naruto that if his own chakra is too low then the demon will eat him, so that is a hard limit on how much demon chakra someone can use, it must be proportional to your own.