GATE - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for GATE, Episode 8.

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[Stark700]

Well, it's interesting to see the elf girl dress in some more casual clothes. They put a lot of emphasis in the detailed structure of the city as well so found that kinda interesting. I found it amusing at how they observe the city and at how Tuka Luna tried on some more professional clothes too

Looking good~


Nice to see the show retain realism that combines elements of fantasy.
Glad to see la Lelena becoming more relevant as well. Rory got a good amount of screen time in though with her ideals.

[aohige]

Haha, the anime avoided being too politically controversial, they didn't make the diet woman look like her real life counterpart.

[mergele]

I'll just assume that there were other questions aside from that one woman.
But how they could take the subway after that broadcast without an mayor ruckus is beyond my imagination.

[Tchadnis]

this episode was just awesome , got to love Rori ... who is the elder now ...

[Pen3]

I do not like the design of the secret service PSIA guy, he is supposed to look like inspector Lunge from Monster.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Pen3

I do not like the design of the secret service PSIA guy, he is supposed to look like inspector Lunge from Monster.

Not really. The novels didn't really describe him, so the manga design was arbitrary and original of the artist. The anime's detective Colombo design is just as valid tbh.

[Kaoru Chujo]

What a satisfying episode. Just flew by.

One could quibble about the extravagant portrayal of the woman legislator (who is, after all, just trying to be sure people are being protected...and advance her career; more pro-military propaganda). Or about the extravagantly drawn intelligence agent. But there was so much to enjoy here: the impressed but sensible reactions of the "refugees" to a modern city; the revelations of ages; the ex-wife (extravagantly portrayed by Nanjou Yoshino, who just seems to get better and better, both as a singer and as a seiyuu); the way our hero keeps one step ahead of both the enemy and the official plan; Tyuka; Lelei; Rory...and Rory and Rory and Rory. Taneda Risa's extravagant portrayal makes such an impression. Her fear underground was a pleasantly disorienting counterpoint to her confident viciousness above ground. I was glad they found a way to make it semi-plausible for her to carry her halberd into the Diet building (by covering it).

Wonderful.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by aohige

Not really. The novels didn't really describe him, so the manga design was arbitrary and original of the artist. The anime's detective Colombo design is just as valid tbh.

Not really. He is supposed to look like a sneaky secret agent and an inspector fits more than a news reporter.

[rladls2121]

150 people of what? Death?
And then saying they are sacrifices?
Not being thanked and appreciate their effort for evacuating the civilians, but being blamed for it.
I wonder if that woman is saying that some better decisions were made at that time, and what would those be?
But the point of this argument brought up, what are we supposed to feel about it?

[monir]

This is a weird series in so many ways, but it somehow find a way to be enjoyable. Our MC quietly is building his harem, the ex-wife included.

I must also say, this is not a good series from a female perspective, then again most anime are not.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

150 people of what? Death? And then saying they are sacrifices? Not being thanked and appreciate their effort for evacuating the civilians, but being blamed for it. I wonder if that woman is saying that some better decisions were made at that time, and what would those be? But the point of this argument brought up, what are we supposed to feel about it?

We are supposed to feel that people who worry that the JSDF could hurt civilians are foolish and self-interested, and that the military can do no wrong. This show is pro-military propaganda, supporting the present Japanese government's move to re-militarize Japan. That's what we are supposed to feel about it.

I don't like the political implications of this show, but I still love the show.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Pen3

Not really. He is supposed to look like a sneaky secret agent and an inspector fits more than a news reporter.

Yeah, and he looks like one.

Have you never watched Columbo?

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

We are supposed to feel that people who worry that the JSDF could hurt civilians are foolish and self-interested, and that the military can do no wrong. This show is pro-military propaganda, supporting the present Japanese government's move to re-militarize Japan. That's what we are supposed to feel about it.

I don't like the political implications of this show, but I still love the show.

Name me a single instance, just ONE, of JSDF ever hurting civilians or doing any aggressive actions in the entire 60 years of its existence.

One.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by aohige

Name me a single instance, just ONE, of JSDF ever hurting civilians or doing any aggressive actions in the entire 60 years of its existence. One.

That's not my point at all. The JSDF has been truly a "self-defense" force for most of its history, as intended by the post-war constitution. From all reports, it has been a disciplined and efficient force.

My point is that Prime Minister Abe wants to give the Japanese military the right to fight overseas, an idea that is understandably repellent to Koreans and Chinese. This show is sending a band of wonderful JSDF soldiers into a foreign country, where it destroys the opposition much as the Imperial Japanese Army did in 1932 or 1938 in China. It is pro-military and pro-Abe propaganda. I have connections in China and hate the idea that Japanese imperialism is reviving itself, led by the grandson of an Imperial-era politician.

But, as I want to repeat, that does not affect my great enjoyment of the show.

[aohige]

Sending troops to ally nations to fend off invasions is NOTHING like the Imperial Japanese Army.
NOWHERE in the clause implies colonization of foreign lands. Every military in existence has the right to send support troops to allies.

Stop pushing this nasty, misinformed, and hate filled agenda. Please.

[MrTerrorist]

Itami sure is no regular otaku. Not only he's a soldier and an officer, he's also both a Japanese Army Ranger and Special Forces Commando. And then came the surprise he has an ex-wife! lol

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

That's not my point at all. The JSDF has been truly a "self-defense" force for most of its history, as intended by the post-war constitution. From all reports, it has been a disciplined and efficient force.

My point is that Prime Minister Abe wants to give the Japanese military the right to fight overseas, an idea that is understandably repellent to Koreans and Chinese. This show is sending a band of wonderful JSDF soldiers into a foreign country, where it destroys the opposition much as the Imperial Japanese Army did in 1932 or 1938 in China. It is pro-military and pro-Abe propaganda. I have connections in China and hate the idea that Japanese imperialism is reviving itself, led by the grandson of an Imperial-era politician.

But, as I want to repeat, that does not affect my great enjoyment of the show.

Of course China is upset, any other military in the area threatens their own future expansions. Japan still spends only a small fraction on JSDF compared with the glorious Chinese army. So China calling someone else a warmonger is beyond ironic.

Korea is upset because they have set up Japan as the fall guy for any thing and every thing as that means that their own politicians are not to blame for any failures, but Japan is.

As for showing the JSDF in a good light. I haven't noticed that so far in this show. They have pretty much done as expected. Did you expect them to randomly shoot civilians or some thing and find it unrealistic that they don't do that? I guess portraying soldiers as humans will upset some.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by aohige

Sending troops to ally nations to fend off invasions is NOTHING like the Imperial Japanese Army.
NOWHERE in the clause implies colonization of foreign lands. Every military in existence has the right to send support troops to allies.

Stop pushing this nasty, misinformed, and hate filled agenda. Please.

Hate filled agenda...

Stop being so melodramatic, dude. She said it wasn't that big of a deal anyway.

And for what it's worth, I absolutely agree with her. I don't know anything specifically about the author so whether it's actual propaganda or just extreme bias is hard to say but the PATRIOTISM has been all over this show for a while now. This is just the latest example and the underlying political message was pretty obvious: The JSDF is unfailingly morally perfect in their military adventures. The Diet woman was a blatant representation of any critic and was portrayed as sleazy, stupid and horrible. The ultimate message is that critics of the military are ungrateful and the show wasn't particularly subtle about it when it had Rory even saying it outright. It's not like this is new to anyone. This type of defense is something we've seen very often in right wing circles in justifying military misadventures. Just look at how Allen West is heralded by American conservatives or how the ACLU is villified by the right wing media for going after the CIA.

But I also agree with Kaoru in that it really isn't that big a deal. I've seen enough PATRIOTISM in American films to not be bothered by it (I can still enjoy films like Independance Day) and whilst the American examples defending military abuse are no joke, the link between the two is probably not that big anyway (Or at the very least there are more important factors than just what American films indoctrinate.). And that means, whilst the PATRIOTISM in this show is blatant, it's nothing really worth worrying about, especially for an organisation like the JSDF which as of yet isn't going on any military adventures anyway (yet). I mean it's not like the show is trying to justify torture or anything. It's just painting a rosy picture of the JSDF. It's just eye-roll worthy is all.

If you would like to give your idea of what the political message in that scene was then go ahead. But like I said, I don't think this show was particularly subtle about what it wanted to say.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Spoiler for reply to aohige on political matters now beginning to go beyond this show:

Originally Posted by aohige

Sending troops to ally nations to fend off invasions is NOTHING like the Imperial Japanese Army. NOWHERE in the clause implies colonization of foreign lands. Every military in existence has the right to send support troops to allies. Stop pushing this nasty, misinformed, and hate filled agenda. Please.

I know what the current proposal says, but it is perfectly reasonable for people who have previously been invaded by Japan not to want to see Japan move toward sending troops to foreign countries. I know how men in the Japanese elite really feel: that Japanese are superior to others and that they only lost WW2 because of the greater resources of their enemies, not because they had lesser capabilities.

I personally feel no hatred whatsoever for Japanese in general -- quite the opposite -- but I can't feel very favorably toward people like Mr. Abe, whose recent speech on the anniversary of the defeat spent more time justifying Imperial Japan than actually apologizing. The Emperor, in his speech, even seemed to subtly apologize for Mr. Abe's approach.

I am not uninformed, and if you feel I'm being nasty, that's your problem. I am being realistic, it seems to me, and thinking beyond the surface of words uttered by politicians.

Generally, Japan should apologize more fulsomely for the pain and suffering their ancestors brought to Asia, and the Chinese media should stop going over that territory again and again, as it does. Mr. Abe gave a mild expression of regret, but then went on to justify Japan's conquest of China on the basis that Western countries had done similar things in the previous century, and Japan was being hemmed in by the West. Fair enough. He's right. But that is not how you make peace. And sending your wife to represent you at the Yasukuni Shrine is fundamentally a hostile act toward China, Korea, and the US.

Personally, I feel Japanese have a right to honour war heroes even when the wars they fought were unjustifiable. I do the same for my own country. But for Japanese to do it now is simply a slap in the face to their victims in those years. The current Japanese government seems to want to goad China into doing things that can justify Japan expanding its military reach. The government does not take Chinese suffering seriously, and that feeling conveys itself readily to the Chinese. The government also does not take seriously the strong feelings in favour of peace held by a large number of Japanese, who have been demonstrating against these new policies.

Sorry to disagree, but I feel this is serious. Both China and Japan have to climb down off their high horses and try to make real peace with each other. The two countries have to make each other feel secure, not endangered.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by aohige

NOWHERE in the clause implies colonization of foreign lands.

Uhm, what Yanagida talked to Itami about in episode 4 borders on the idea of colonisation, just saying. And before somebody throws this against me, yes, I know this isn't what the general sentiment of the people in the show and the show itself is about.

Originally Posted by Znail

Of course China is upset, any other military in the area threatens their own future expansions. Japan still spends only a small fraction on JSDF compared with the glorious Chinese army. So China calling someone else a warmonger is beyond ironic.

According to IISS China's military spending is roughly 1,2% of its GDP. Japan is at 1,0%. Even taking the significantly higher number of the SIPRI the Chinese spending is still only at 2,1%, which is roughly about what NATO is suggesting its member countries to spend on defence. And this spending thing is also ignoring an important strategic reality: Unlike China, Japan can rely on the military potential of the biggest spender in the world in form of the United States. The US naval base at Yokosuka for example is the only base outside of US territory that is a permanent home for a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

In general I'm a bit irritated at the tone of your post. While China or Korea sure aren't your innocent elementary schoolers, flipping it the other way round and declaring Japanese politicians completely innocent and the problem residing entirely with the other side is doing nobody justice.