2017-05-01, 00:35
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Link #1 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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One Piece - Chapter 864 [manga]
Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece.
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Early Golden Week spoilers are out! Credit goes to AP's Redon for the info: -Chapter title is "The plan to massacre the whole Vinsmoke family". Splash page is the beginning of a new ministory! Looks like this one focuses on Luffy's Dressrosa allies, with Cavendish being featured first. -After destroying the picture, Brook rips off his Luffy mask, revealing himself to a shocked Big Mom. Meanwhile, Pudding actually still attempts to kill Sanji, but the chef dodges all of her shots. She tells him that he'll die like all the other people she deceived, but Sanji questions her actions. The woman begins hesitating again, but suddenly one of her brothers appears to back her up! This new enemy is the 3rd son of the Charlotte clan, Charlotte Daifuku, Minister of Beans! He has the abilities of the Hoya Hoya ni Mi, making him a lamp human! As the minister rubs himself as one would a magic lamp, a GENIE comes out of his belt buckle! Now Sanji must face Daifuku and his djinn....!!! -Meanwhile, Capone restrains Luffy, but this is merely an act. He uses this time to whisper the current situation to his fellow supernova. At this time, another fight is going on, this one between Pedro and another minister, 4th son of the Charlotte family, Charlotte Oven, Minister of Browned Foods! This minister has the powers of the Netsu Netsu no Mi, a power that controls heat! As for the remaining Vinsmokes, all of them are being held hostage, having been restrained with drugged candy, and have guns pointed at them. Apparently, Reiju's brothers also seemed to have accepted death, but Judge is naturally most displeased. He accuses Big Mom of not keeping her end of the deal, and that he devoted his whole life to rebuilding the Germa empire and getting revenge on the countries of North Blue. However, despite his pleas, Big Mom is ignoring Judge, as the combination of shocking events has put her in a state of confusion.... -Meanwhile, Brooke, whose head has rolled off his body, tells Luffy that to show the Yonkou the destroyed picture once more, in order to snap Big Mom out of her confusion and proceed with the plan. However, Katakuri approaches the group, which leads Capone to figure that the commander has foresaw the future again. Thus, he executes the next phase of the plan: He orders for all of the allies to put on their earplugs! Katakuri then orders the "Rook" to kill Luffy immediately, but.... Capone refuses! He tells Katakuri that while he's able to glimpse into the near future, that doesn't mean he's the only one capable of changing fate....!!!! Last edited by marvelB; 2017-05-02 at 17:53. |
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2017-05-01, 06:52
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Link #2 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Both sons were introduced right before the wedding started... that just leaves the first daughter Compote, who was introduced at the same time, to join the fight.
The Vinsmokes being held hostage... seems weird. The BM pirates were out to kill them immediately before the party, so no real reason to let them live. However, that makes the situation much easier as far as misunderstandings are concerned. There should be no Reiju saving BM from the poison missiles anymore. If she stored the poison from the fish inside herself, it might help weaken BM too. Poison Pink even said it was enough toxin 'to kill a giant' and BM is quite gigantic herself. Pudding's struggle with herself seems to continue in a good way. That gets my stamp of approval. On the other hand I don't like that Sanji is stuck only with the third son. I kind of wanted him to go vs Katakuri... well, perhaps it was too bad of a match up. Jinbei just seems more natural of a counter. As long as Luffy, Brook and Nami take on BM with her three Souls I will be glad as far as fighting is concerned. Can't let Capone take the credit for defeating BM alone. (In the eyes of the world) Capone must be a really fast talker to tell Luffy the whole situation in less than three seconds Oo; [well the estimation was based on a simple drop, now it's broken. She might need longer to realise what has happened. I would laugh if katakuri gets one-shotted in BMs rage.] EDIT: Oh! Judge is crying. Last edited by Hoodspirit; 2017-05-01 at 08:27. |
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2017-05-01, 14:13
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Link #3 |
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7th Order Knight / Hermit
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: St. Celestina
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I was wondering if Nami and Big Mom battles for Tametabako which ended up in Big Mom opens it when she seize victory over Nami for the treasure.
I think this is getting interesting to see how Judge will make his judgement towards Sanji. I do hope that he will praise Sanji as the best "masterpiece" later in the future and this time deemed Ichiji, Niji and Yonji as failure. |
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2017-05-01, 14:38
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Link #4 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I think the children will give BM the treasures to get her out of her rampage mode (if she enters it), after she attacked/killed one or two of her kids.
There is a version I like more though: I don't remember it clearly, but wasn't Neptun unsure whether the explosives will still work? Maybe they don't and keep us on the edge when Straw Hats open the Treasure on their ship (Nami somehow snatched it before). As for your comment about Judge, wouldn't he repeat the same mistake again with this? I somehow have the feeling that he is a bit like Sanji with being emotional. Perhaps his emotions were a reason for the downfall of his empire. |
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2017-05-01, 15:12
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Link #5 |
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The Fearless
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: "United" States
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Judge be bringing the water works, is it a ploy? or his true feelings.
Did he finally try to open up and then be betrayed again? Find out NEXT TIME on Dragon Bal... On One Piece.  So typical of the kids to act nonchalantly, they might have a plan in the works. Reiju and her siblings are really alike imo. Now all that needs to happen is her get some <3 eyes for some hot women, Smoothie would be great. I Would be so happy lol
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2017-05-02, 10:47
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One-Eyed Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NJ, USA
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Judge crying was a surprise. If the translation i saw was correct, like how Reiju was thinking that its Judge's fault that his sons are so messed up when they didn't bat an eye at about to being killed.
Interesting that it looked like the 3rd son seemed to go after Pudding for not finishing things off. Would have liked to see Cavendish on the ship in the splash page. Wonder if showing BM the picture again will really make her scream or not, seems like she was more about to pass out or something.
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2017-05-02, 11:00
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a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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hahaha Big Mom is confused at what things she should be angry to
 this chapter felt too short and I still can't believe that Germa66 believed in Big Mom totally.. I thought they have some shady plans to kill Big Mom too... well if they have it, Reiju should be the one that know it... Sanji X Pudding ship is going too strong... Pudding might die for real in this arc |
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2017-05-02, 11:51
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Link #8 | |
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7th Order Knight / Hermit
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: St. Celestina
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I want to see how Sanji will awake this time, hoping he will become a demon for real. |
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2017-05-02, 18:20
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Link #11 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Alrighty, edited the summary a bit now that the chapter's out. Great to see a new ministory started, too!
Anyway, I like that Judge's gene manipulation has come to bite him in the ass, since most of his kids calmly accepted death while he's busy bawling his eyes out, lol. As far as the newly introduced ministers go, I really like their designs, and I especially like Daifuku's power (that genie looks really badass, IMO). I wonder if it merely functions like a stand.... because I think it would be kinda cool if Daifuku can power up by fusing with the genie, basically like the Djinn Equip from Magi: Labyrinth of Magic. As for Oven, wasn't there a filler villain from the anime who basically had the same power (generating heat)? Wonder if the anime will actually address that when it reaches that point of the arc, lol. What else.... well, it looks like Capone will team up with Jinbei and Pedro to take on Katakuri, though as I believe someone else here mentioned before, Jinbei alone seems to be the best man to take him on since he can counter his ability (as we saw with that tea-throwing technique from before). As for Pedro, honestly I kinda wanna see him finish things with Tamago (who I assume is still in chicken form), but seeing how chaotic the venue is right now, I suppose it's anybody's guess as to who will take on who..... |
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2017-05-03, 07:19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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So they were the underdog from the start that depended on BMs goodwill for everything to go smoothly. A surprise attack for them was not possible either, how would that even look like? They had to be in the open for the wedding from the start. Pretty bad spot for an Assassination force. It's like one of the brothers said, they set their sights too high. It's not their league to play in. And that fact gives a good insight into Judge. It was probably the last chance he saw to reclaim the former glory in North Blue. I believe his tears were that of frustration, rather than cowardice. His life-long dream got shattered and he isn't able to do anything about it. Perhaps it isn't just by chance that this arc had Sanji crying so often in the same manner that Judge is crying now. In the backflashs Judge said that his humanity was the reason why he couldn't kill Sanji. He viewed the humanity as weakness and most likely bottled up his emotions for a very long time now. And now it comes out all at once. We might get flashbacks one day why he came to the conclusion that soft feelings were something that shouldn't exist. And maybe we will get a flashback in which he cries a lot, his wife's death, imprisoning Sanji, letting him go ect. Quote:
It's pretty safe to say that we didn't get to see Daifuku and Oven's DFs for nothing. They will be probably still standing. Pedro vs Oven is a very bad match up. Iirc it was sad that Minks are bad with heat. Luckily he seems to have withdrawn from that fight for now and gets a different opponent next. Did we see Tamago at the wedding yet? Sanji vs Daifuku seems to be on-going. Looks like Sanji is able to withstand that battle. Despite being pushed back and later having a bruise. But he isn't going all out yet and focuses too much on the overall situation with his family. I don't think that Sanji will let anyone fight his 'Pudding-chan' atm. But if there were to be a fight, Carrot would be more than enough for it. Pudding didn't show any feats for combat yet. All she ever did was shooting a gun and she only used her DF on a restrained target and it took some time to get memories out, looking at them, editing them ect. Doesn't seem fit for combat. Nami vs Pudding seems like a waste of Nami's power in this whole situation. Her rain is needed pretty much everywhere. For melting the candy that holds the Vinsmokes captive, providing water to Jinbei so he can manipulate it for his attacks, Water is confirmed to be a key element vs Katakuri, and vs Oven it should be useful as well. And there might be a combo possible with the steam that gets produced when she uses water against Oven. And not to forget that she needs to redirect possible weather attacks from BM and her Homies. Nami is just too important atm to deal with Pudding... As for further matchups, there are too many wildcards atm. On BMs side we still have Smoothie and Compote without any action, Prosperos has no direct enemy as well. If the Vinsmokes get free, Bege's men might provide them with their raid suits/weapons since they were responsible for that. And Bege's men themselves could gang up on a few foes. It's pretty interesting that we were'nt shown Smoothie and Compote entering the fight yet. As for Smoothie there could be a lot of reasons. She could try to investigate the cake for more informations, she could be trying to stay unnoticed in the background and ambush the Straw Hats when she knows how they are going to escape, or she could just wait and see if BM falls or not. Why would that be a possibility? Because she is a woman. So far we have three daughters who ran/or want to run away. Compote, the first daughter, isn't doing anything unlike the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th son. Pudding is still struggling with herself and took another beating from her own brother, shouldn't take that much longer till she says 'I'm fed up with everything, leave me alone you damn family!'. The other daughters are just pointing guns at the Vinsmokes while waiting. Could have nothing to do with gender, but it at least starts to look suspicious. Quote:
After the scream, they might switch opponents again. Quote:
Sure, we didn't get to see BM entering rampage mode, but we got more hyped about that with Katakuri's reaction to the future. A 1B+ Pirate going pale as a ghost? No way, I don't want to see what caused that! The chapter provided as with two more DFs, and one of them is very exotic. Perhaps the djinn is part of the lamp humans in general and his smoke fruit only strengthens it, or the djinn is made out of that smoke to begin with, but then it speaks...and like marvel B pointed out that there could be interesting things like a fusion with the djinn. It's quite the mysterious DF. The chapter answered important questions of the story progression too we had in the two earlier chapters. Like Why weren't they shown? Which role will the Vinsmokes have, will they protect BM from the poison, or cancel the BM alliance and fight with Luffy? We got to see the difference between missing humanity and having it clearly. Will Ceasar follow the plan after he cried from the insults? What's up with Pudding? A lot of people minded a U-turn, despite her mumbling that she still has to kill Sanji. So it was a good thing to see her trying shooting him again, and taking another emotional blow from Sanji. Her struggle is displayed well so far, and we got to see another bad treatment from her family towards her. We got two more funny scenes with Brook and another package of his wisdom/advice for Luffy. Luffy is still enjoying himself, but not only that. He is also serious about the plan. He has been constantly listen to others these past few chapters. To Jinbei earlier and this chapter to Brook and Bege. The old Luffy wouldn't have calmed down so easily after being pinned by Bege, despite good reasons. Maybe the next big Arc, Wano, will have Luffy to be the one coming up with a plan himself, or if that is too soon, later. Character progression for such a possibility has started now. It's no longer go in and wreck everything. Capone had his moments too, with quickly realising things and letting Luffy continue with Brook's plan, despite denying it initially. Too bad it was not a sign of trust in Luffy's capabilities though, but perhaps that comes later. And he revealed himself to be a traitor and had a good line at the end. No going back for him anymore. And we got a new cover page story starting. Perhaps they are joining back with Luffy as early as Wano Arc. (I don't think it will be for WCI, because the territory should still be heavily guarded by the turf ships or what they were called. So we got new DFs, Comedy, Character progression for several people, important plot progression and are hyped more than ever at the outlook of BM's incoming rage. I'm excited. But I only speak for myself, to each their own. |
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2017-05-05, 07:35
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Link #17 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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2017-05-05, 10:27
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Link #18 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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They are in a closed environment right now, there won't be any reinforcements for Big Mom in time. So the home advantage is limited to what is currently present. The guests don't take part in the battle. The Germa 66 know that BM is going to kill them, so they are likely allies for this fight from now on. The security guards are on Luffy's side too. They can even re-arm the Vinsmokes. Outside of the homies, BMs side has been pictured to have loyalty problems through the entire arc. The Scream/Rage will take out everything that is not fodder, decreasing the quantity of the opponents massively, if it goes as according to the plan. Since the Alliance has the earplugs, they might even end up in having more men/women standing than the Big Mom Pirates. We also have Nami and Brook here who could deal with/use the three homies so Luffy has only to focus on BMs body. Nami was shown+mentioned to use the thunder against the army, and Brook hold his own to some extent against the three prime homies. So the overall situation seems rather favourable for the alliance compared to a later appearance, with Cracker healed up, in a random skirmish in the future, in which BM has been warned about Luffy's strength. The main question is, has Luffy enough Damage Output to defeat BM? Of course that is hard to say unless we get more hints or it actually happens. Luffy does have a huge damage output and the whole plan is about reducing BMs physical defense. If it goes as forshadowed in the manga, I would say it is not impossible for Luffy to overcome a weakened physical defense with his strong Gear 4 attacks. BM having more versatility, being stronger ect. all that is unimportant for the question whether she can be defeated or not. In RPG terms it is just about bringing her HP down quick enough if Luffy has Atk boost on him while BM has a defense down debuff on her. Cracker was a very bad matchup for a physical fighter like Luffy and while the fight was largely off-screen, the only G4 attack we saw that hit Cracker's real body was also the last action in the fight. In Doflamingo's fight, the 6th connecting G4 attack took him out. Luffy had to travel twice through the whole city between these attacks and thus timed out along the way. However, from that we can see that G4 attacks have a huge power if they connect. Often people try to argue with terms like 'Shichibukai level' < 'Yonko Commander level'. I don't see it that way. Yonko Commander and Shichibukai's have huge varying qualities within themselves. Vista couldn't trash Mihawk and vice versa. Some commander's could hold back an admiral, while some commander's needed support against a Shichibukai. As for story pacing, it makes a lot of sense too. It would only big news for the Reverie if BM took a clear loss here. We know of 4 other Worst Generations who attempted to defeat BM, all live. Just trying to defeat BM is not that huge. Also next up the line is Wano. And Kaido has been displayed as physically being stronger than BM. It wouldn't make much sense for a physical fighter like Luffy to overcome the higher hurdle (for him) first. At least it looks rather good compared to a few pre-timeskip arcs. It could still go either way though. It largely depends on BMs agility and accuracy. If Luffy can dodge her while getting his hits in, he could possibly zerg her. This is a completely untouched field though for BM. |
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2017-05-06, 00:14
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Link #20 | |
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7th Order Knight / Hermit
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: St. Celestina
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Let's just say the odds are around less than 20% |
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