AnimeSuki Forums

Mad Pierrot · 2017-05-14, 20:39

You know, I've been thinking about insert themes in anime series ever since I watched "Your Name." While I really enjoyed the movie, it kind of bothered me how it often used insert songs.

I mean, I like insert songs like the ones Scryed, Gundam SEED or 00. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood uses the opening song as an insert song in one of the final episodes. However, there are other series that almost avoid using music for key scenes like

Spoiler for some important shonen scenes like:

Then I have been annoyed by some of the use of insert songs like in .hack//Roots where almost nothing happens and Ali Project plays something that sounds intense.

What do you guys think? Would some anime be better without insert themes?

Flower · 2017-05-14, 20:43

That's a tough question, especially since I am among those for whom the audio aspect of the anime medium tends to matter to me quite a bit.

Still, I would have to reply that "some anime would be better off with poorly done insert songs" ... a well done insert song can bring the material being presented to a whole different level in my opinion.

Akito Kinomoto · 2017-05-14, 22:55

Generally speaking, an insert song is the flag on top of the Everest of the puppet master manipulating the viewer without anyone being wiser to the strings. When an insert song or BGM feels forced, it's usually because the manipulation wasn't subtle enough and thus hadn't earned the right for the cherry on top. Now depending on how often music is used, the art of silence can be powerful in a land of instruments while numbers can accentuate moments in a quieter tale (there's an area between all this, but I didn't need to clarify that for anyone, did I?)

There were more times than I can remember where music shouldn't have been in a scene, but I'd rather have a story use the art of silence and fail than a show using music and falling flat, because at least the first scenario doesn't illicit the sense the staff is going "cry now"

Credit to Jun Maeda for being an exception to the above, though even he can't put up enough smoke and mirrors to hide the man behind the curtain at times (see: Charlotte)

Spoiler for Naruto: Shippuden:

Triple_R · 2017-05-14, 22:55

I think that insert songs/themes are fine, and sometimes even good, if used sparingly.

I think the key with an insert song/theme is that when it's used, it should feel special, helping to highlight the importance and/or value of the scene(s) the song is being used for. Also, insert songs/themes can't take the place of good standard BGM. They can add some spice to it, but ultimately, you want some good fitting standard BGM tracks. ("standard" might not be the best word to use here, but hopefully it conveys the idea I'm getting at)

Just my personal take on this thread topic.

Archon_Wing · 2017-05-14, 23:22

A lot of them are great and is something I enjoy in particular towards anime. Especially if the main theme song gets used in a good way. One needs to really stay away from overuse though. (Sup Aldnoah Zero)

Mai-HiME had some really memorable ones.

Also Nana Mizuki singing tends to be a +2, of course that depends heavily on subject matter.

Arya · 2017-05-15, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flower

... a well done insert song can bring the material being presented to a whole different level in my opinion.

I fully agree with this. To me it can change the experience completely, luckily it works only for the better, I won't get affected by music otherwise, well generally at least.

I already said this many times, but lately the show that worked better in this aspect was Grimgar. I think that the music (as much as the absence of it) did resonate with me. Of course being (relatively at least) subjective that explains why it didn't get across to everyone, it relied a lot on that aspect, too much for its own good.

In any case I'll cherish those shows no matter what and how much time passed (Blade Runner is one for all). I still remember Guilty Crown for its awesome OST for example. As of late Aldnoah Zero did a great job (of course it's subjective, but I wouldn't say it was overused) and another great one in my book of course is Nana.

Ahh, Mai-Hime, I just remembered how I loved Mezame. Now I will listen to it the whole day

Seihai · 2017-05-15, 04:43

I'm not the biggest fan of using the OP theme as one unless the OP theme itself is a really good song to listen to (and obviously fits the situation at hand). The scene should feel unique in a way and imo using the OP for that purpose has a lower chance of impressing me because I'm already used to the sound. I do understand that creating a specific song just for one or a couple scenes means more effort/budget though when it happens.

That said, I mostly like insert songs that aren't the OP theme. Also character songs are nice! But those are very tricky to pull off tbh.

Mad Pierrot · 2017-05-15, 08:09

There are also ending transitions where the composers play instrumental intros of the song before the legit ending begins. It happens in Gundam 00, Hunter x Hunter, D.Gray-man Hallow and even The Prince of Tennis. There is also in Hamatora a rearranged version of the ending in season one for

Spoiler for spoiler:

Flower · 2017-05-15, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

There are also ending transitions where the composers play instrumental intros of the song before the legit ending begins. It happens in Gundam 00, Hunter x Hunter, D.Gray-man Hallow and even The Prince of Tennis. There is also in Hamatora a rearranged version of the ending in season one for

Spoiler for spoiler:

Unfortunately for me this falls into the category of "is it done well or no", which admittedly gets pretty subjective to a large degree.

For example, one fairly recent series that did this well was the ED of pt 1 of Gakuen Asterisk - I thought "Waiting for the Rain" was already lovely enough, but adding a swelling of string instruments before the singing began made it estra special for me. Perhapsit did not work for everyone that way, though....

Marcus H. · 2017-05-15, 20:57

Sometimes, it's kinda great, especially if the insert song that was produced before the anime was used in the anime series itself. The only example of that was probably "kokoro palette", produced by 40meter-P and signal-P and performed by GUMI.

It gives off a feeling of secondhand fulfillment to the ones behind the song, like you witnessed a fanmade work recognized and used in an anime.

And of course, who would forget the EUROBEAT from Initial D?

**Solace** · 2017-05-16, 09:13

Mai-Hime/Otome was one of the first that sprung to mind. There's a lot of great insert songs, even if people bitch about Materialize.

I'm not a fan of OP/ED insert songs though. I prefer original songs or character themes that fit the scene.

LoweGear · 2017-05-17, 04:00

Like everything else, insert songs are a tool that is used in service of the cinematic: used well, they can make a scene more complete, and further engage the viewer's emotions in that scene; if used badly, they can end up being jarring and create dissonance that pulls the viewer out of the viewing experience and mess up whatever emotion the scene is supposed to portray. Note that this use of music in film is no different than the usage of background music or other sounds, it's just that insert songs have the added complication of having vocalized lyrics that can potentially clash with whatever dialogue is being said.

For a good example of an insert song used well in a scene, see Gurren Lagann's use of "Happily Ever After", a high-octane song used to great effect to make a scene more awesome than it is.

Hell, insert songs are not limited to anime: if you want a big-budget, highly popular example of insert songs being used in media, look no further than Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy, whose mix of songs from the 70's and 80's are used to incredible effect and even integrated as part of the story.

Thus, whether insert songs are good or not depends upon its execution in a particular media.

2017-05-14, 20:39	Link #1
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 34	What do you think of insert themes You know, I've been thinking about insert themes in anime series ever since I watched "Your Name." While I really enjoyed the movie, it kind of bothered me how it often used insert songs. I mean, I like insert songs like the ones Scryed, Gundam SEED or 00. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood uses the opening song as an insert song in one of the final episodes. However, there are other series that almost avoid using music for key scenes like Spoiler for some important shonen scenes like: The death of Minato and Kushina in Naruto Shippuden or the death Komugi and Meruem. Then I have been annoyed by some of the use of insert songs like in .hack//Roots where almost nothing happens and Ali Project plays something that sounds intense. What do you guys think? Would some anime be better without insert themes?

2017-05-14, 20:43	Link #2
Flower Blooming on the mountain Join Date: May 2010 Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....	That's a tough question, especially since I am among those for whom the audio aspect of the anime medium tends to matter to me quite a bit. Still, I would have to reply that "some anime would be better off with poorly done insert songs" ... a well done insert song can bring the material being presented to a whole different level in my opinion. __________________

2017-05-14, 22:55	Link #4
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 43	I think that insert songs/themes are fine, and sometimes even good, if used sparingly. I think the key with an insert song/theme is that when it's used, it should feel special, helping to highlight the importance and/or value of the scene(s) the song is being used for. Also, insert songs/themes can't take the place of good standard BGM. They can add some spice to it, but ultimately, you want some good fitting standard BGM tracks. ("standard" might not be the best word to use here, but hopefully it conveys the idea I'm getting at) Just my personal take on this thread topic. __________________

2017-05-15, 04:43	Link #7
Seihai スマイリウム Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Iwakawa Base Age: 32	I'm not the biggest fan of using the OP theme as one unless the OP theme itself is a really good song to listen to (and obviously fits the situation at hand). The scene should feel unique in a way and imo using the OP for that purpose has a lower chance of impressing me because I'm already used to the sound. I do understand that creating a specific song just for one or a couple scenes means more effort/budget though when it happens. That said, I mostly like insert songs that aren't the OP theme. Also character songs are nice! But those are very tricky to pull off tbh. __________________

2017-05-15, 08:09	Link #8
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 34	There are also ending transitions where the composers play instrumental intros of the song before the legit ending begins. It happens in Gundam 00, Hunter x Hunter, D.Gray-man Hallow and even The Prince of Tennis. There is also in Hamatora a rearranged version of the ending in season one for Spoiler for spoiler: the "death" of Art.

2017-05-15, 20:57	Link #10
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	Sometimes, it's kinda great, especially if the insert song that was produced before the anime was used in the anime series itself. The only example of that was probably "kokoro palette", produced by 40meter-P and signal-P and performed by GUMI. It gives off a feeling of secondhand fulfillment to the ones behind the song, like you witnessed a fanmade work recognized and used in an anime. And of course, who would forget the EUROBEAT from Initial D? __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2017-05-16, 09:13	Link #11
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	Mai-Hime/Otome was one of the first that sprung to mind. There's a lot of great insert songs, even if people bitch about Materialize. I'm not a fan of OP/ED insert songs though. I prefer original songs or character themes that fit the scene. __________________

2017-05-17, 04:00	Link #12
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	Like everything else, insert songs are a tool that is used in service of the cinematic: used well, they can make a scene more complete, and further engage the viewer's emotions in that scene; if used badly, they can end up being jarring and create dissonance that pulls the viewer out of the viewing experience and mess up whatever emotion the scene is supposed to portray. Note that this use of music in film is no different than the usage of background music or other sounds, it's just that insert songs have the added complication of having vocalized lyrics that can potentially clash with whatever dialogue is being said. For a good example of an insert song used well in a scene, see Gurren Lagann's use of "Happily Ever After", a high-octane song used to great effect to make a scene more awesome than it is. Hell, insert songs are not limited to anime: if you want a big-budget, highly popular example of insert songs being used in media, look no further than Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy, whose mix of songs from the 70's and 80's are used to incredible effect and even integrated as part of the story. Thus, whether insert songs are good or not depends upon its execution in a particular media. __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.