IRC In General

[Kaioshin Sama]

Can anyone tell me why they use this program? In my opinion it is promoting a culture of hatred and general lack of human compassion. Where in most cases people would try to help you with something in real life, in IRC it is the exact opposite. People HATE you for not understanding the program and would sooner ban you than try to help you or give you some pointers. Its a really nasty culture from my experiences and I don't see what it provides to internet or society as whole. Furthermore the outright hostility which you are greeted with upon entering most channels is startling and the people that run the channels I have been to have enormous egos and horrificily abuse there administrative powers to demean, insult, and bully the average user, ESPECIALLY if it is there first time in the channel.

A piece of advice to the people who run channels and fit what I have just described. If you want NEW people to contribute to the channel and your cause, try treating them with some dignity. Respect is something that is sorely lacking in the current internet culture and it is 10 times worse on IRC. Anyway that's my two cents on IRC. If you disagree, or agree feel free to join in on this topic. I for one have given up using IRC altogether because of the people who if you should dare ask them to clarifiy something about the program or ask them anything will ban you from the channel without a second thought. Also does anyone else see the ambiguity of the oft cited don't be stupid rule?

[Komataguri]

IRC is the last bastion for frail white geeks to act like the gods they portray on Dungeons and Dragons


Beware their infinite powers of kickban!

[zappater]

The community is great, just find the right channels and people.
If you need help there is lots on the internet, just do some basic search..

How can a program/protocol promote hatred? Which also makes us ask the question, why is hatred bad?

People are nice, people respect each other but when people start to ask random stupid questions or questions that you can find the answer to with a easy google search, most people become frustrated cause it is their time you are taking up and you might be interrupting an already on going discussion or just be impatient, so many things that can make people become irritated these days.

Why respect someone who hasn't shown anything that you belive is respectable? If people are casual, not whining or spamming the same thing over and over again you will see that most are nice people that use irc cause it is a good protocol for chatting with multiple people at the same time. Try to just enjoy chatting around about random stuff and find the help you need on the net first, then you might find IRC to be a bit more fun, and understand why people use it.

[silverfire]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

If you want NEW people to contribute to the channel and your cause, try treating them with some dignity. Respect is something that is sorely lacking in the current internet culture and it is 10 times worse on IRC.

First of all, if they're COMPLETELY new, they're better off consulting Google first. Expecting to do well in IRC the first time is like trying to outswim sharks on your first time in the water.

Second of all, if you're referring to a lack of respect, then you're probably a narutard and you had no idea what you were doing, and you wandered into #db. If you walk into a channel that I have op in (at least 38+ channels), you'll most likely be treated with some sort of respect unless you say one of the following things exactly upon entering the channel:

* Joins: noob1 (idiot@cant.copy.or.paste.net)
<noob1> "/msg botname xdcc send #3
* noob1 was kicked by silverfire (learn to copy and paste)
* Joins: noob2 (moron@i.dont.know.common.triggers.that.can.be.goo gled.easily)
<noob2> !find
* noob2 was kicked by silverfire (learn how to use triggers)
* Joins: noob3 (loser@just.as.stupid.as.the.rest)
<noob3> @list
* noob3 was kicked by silverfire (learn how to use triggers)
Joins: noob4 (stupid@dont.know.how.to.read.topics)
<noob4> hey where can i download [insert series name here]
* noob4 was kicked by silverfire (read the f*cking topic)
Joins: noob1 (idiot@cant.copy.or.paste.net)
<noob1> OMG uR sch a faget!!111!one!1!!!11two
* silverfire sets mode: +b *!*@cant.copy.or.paste.net
* noob1 was kicked by silverfire (get out and learn how to type. (1hr ban)

If you ask a question that could be answered by the topic, you'll most likely instantly be kicked if not banned. Topics exist for a very good reason, and there's a reason why almost 100% of IRC clients will show you the topic as the first thing you see when you join the channel.

Use your uncommon sense and you'll avoid most of the banning that goes on that I've seen. I call it uncommon sense because most people don't have it.

Originally Posted by Komataguri

IRC is the last bastion for frail white geeks to act like the gods they portray on Dungeons and Dragons

I highly resent that because I'm asian.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by silverfire

I highly resent that because I'm asian.

Darn straight, you should resent that!

It is rascist of him not to recognize that asians can be geeks also!

[ImperialPanda]

I haven't really found a good use for IRC yet. Except... eh... "borrowing stuff from people on the internet"

As chat software it's prehistoric.

[Mr_Paper]

Respect needs to be earned; demanding it for failed attempts at triggers, spamming the channel, pestering the ops and the general inability to read readily available information is far from the best method of acheiving it. >.>;

Personally, I've almost never seen someone banned who didn't do something to deserve it...

[Kaioshin Sama]

But instead of banning they can say "look you don't do it that way you do it this way, please do it this way from now on to keep things running smoothly"? I don't understand why someone should be banned for making an honest mistake like mistyping a trigger. It's not like typing the wrong trigger is going to crash the entire channel or something. Seriously as a real life example, say some walked into an office and asked to see someone who wasn't there, do you tell them they aren't there you have the wrong place, or do you have security escort them out lock the door and press charges if they walk on the premises again. Its a whole different story if they make a scene, but there's no need to kick them out and issue a restraining order or something, you can give them advice to find that person they are looking for or say we can't help you. I hope you see what I mean. Oh and I'm not a Narutard, I hate Naruto and most anime that came out after 2000, with a few exceptions.

Seriously though what harm does failing a trigger do. It's not like @find which puts a strain on the server.

Also you shouldn't have to earn the right to be treated like a human being if you are one. You need to earn the right to status and position in most establishments, but not to be treated with at least some dignity.

[ImperialPanda]

Cause it's elitist, cause they can do it, and cause it's fun seeing people like you complain like this.

That's just how it is you need to deal with it.

[Mr_Paper]

Who said anything about dignity? Dignity is something you carry and build for yourself -it is a sense of pride in yourself-, respect is earned and given to you by others and is entirely dependant on them. If it were a matter of dignity, one would do well to check the relavent information before hand so as not to make a fool of themselves.

[Kaioshin Sama]

So you're saying people have an inherent right to treat people like shit. The ban message I got was "Do you see an trigger like that in the !rules or !topic you f***ing noob". I guess I have to earn the right not to be cursed at or called a noob right upon making mistakes. I'll remember that next time. Great society we live in eh.

[silverfire]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

But instead of banning they can say "look you don't do it that way you do it this way, please do it this way from now on to keep things running smoothly"?

Very good reason why I linked to Google.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I don't understand why someone should be banned for making an honest mistake like mistyping a trigger.

Because it spams the channel, and if you read guides about IRC you would have learned to do so in the status window with the XDCC triggers anyway.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Seriously as a real life example, say some walked into an office and asked to see someone who wasn't there, do you tell them they aren't there you have the wrong place, or do you have security escort them out lock the door and press charges if they walk on the premises again.

I could bring up an example of turning thinking there's a parking spot, but going straight off the bridge.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Seriously though what harm does failing a trigger do. It's not like @find which puts a strain on the server.

There's a very good reason why I said '!find' and '@list', but not '@find' and '!list'.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Also you shouldn't have to earn the right to be treated like a human being if you are one. You need to earn the right to status and position in most establishments, but not to be treated with at least some dignity

You won't have human dignity if you don't act like a sane human being. It's as simple as that. Use, abuse, and reuse Google, and use that 80% fat organ upstairs (I'm not even joking - your brain is abour 80% lipid-containing matter), and 9 times out of 10, you won't be kicked.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I'm insane for making a mistake, humans clearly don't make mistakes so I must not be a human? Anyway, recommend this topic get closed before things get ugly, it seems I have made a mistake and proven myself not to be human again. I've said all I need to say, and things are getting rather hostile and I didn't want start a flame war.

[Cz]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Seriously as a real life example, say some walked into an office and asked to see someone who wasn't there, do you tell them they aren't there you have the wrong place, or do you have security escort them out lock the door and press charges if they walk on the premises again.

Think of what you just said. Does it scale to tens or even hundreds of people? In a popular and active IRC channel hundreds of users move in and out of the channel. Do you seriously think the ops can point everyone in the correct direction? In real life you would just put up a sign on the front door if enough people make the same mistake. That is what a channel topic is for. It is the best place for such a sign, using this analogy. The problem is many users do not read the topic even if it is written in multiple colors and effects.

Also you shouldn't have to earn the right to be treated like a human being if you are one. You need to earn the right to status and position in most establishments, but not to be treated with at least some dignity.

Okay, let's talk about #animesuki, which is an IRC channel for chatting and not for downloading. Do people who enter the channel and immediately type !list or @find or ask where to download anime without reading the channel topic, which clearly says "NO DOWNLOADS HERE" and has a link to Animesuki, deserve the respect or dignity you are talking about? If they read the channel topic before they acted, they would have been treated with the respect of a new user. If they followed the channel rules and did not become annoying to others in the channel, they would most likely have a good experience.

Helping people is another matter. See first paragraph on scale. We cannot help everyone; channel ops are not trained (or PAID!) support personnel, nor are we available 24/7 to answer questions. Google is always there if you need answers; if you cannot find them, then ask and indicate that you have tried Google. Then perhaps you will be helped -- if and only if users in the channel are 1)active and 2)in the mood to help. No one is obliged or required to help at any particular time unless it is a channel rule/policy. Phone support techs in India help you because they are paid to do so and have specified work shifts. Remember that.

[DaFool]

For help on IRC go to http://www.kasshin.net

IRC is the next best thing that has happened to anime distribution, after bittorrent. Considering that it came before bittorrent, it still maintains a technical barrier of entry that protects the users from corporations (who disable torrent tracker and direct download html sites by writing C&D letters to registrars and ISPs.)

IRC it the total freedom that the internet has promised. You want to chat with geniuses, crooks, you got it. You want files, you want hentai, you got that right.
I personally have never used IM, have never used Friendster. When I chat, I only use IRC. I cuss, I swear, I say things I would never say otherwise in person or on message boards. And I get away with it. If I want a friendly conversation with close friends, I pick up the damn phone.

I don't H/OP in any channels (blame dialup) but I sure sympathize with them. Maintaining any semblance of law and order among 100 to 2000 strangers is not for super nice people. When I was but a new lowly leecher, I used to be kickbanned a lot. Then I discovered the power of switching the ADSL modem off then on again (for nonstatic IP). With dialup, it's even faster to get back in!

It's a trial by fire. A hazing, if you will. Go through it, and be proud.

[Loniat]

I usually hang out on IRC but don’t talk much. Usually get old stuff that is difficult to find in torrents in there (yes, I leech but I also donate to quite a few channels).
What is the point of trying to spend time in an IRC channel if you can’t keep a civil conversation or start typing garbage since you didn’t read the topic of the channel?
I’ve never been to a channel where people are banned without reasons, but if there is such a channel, why to go to there? Besides, blaming IRC in general because of senseless people you meet on a certain channel is like disliking a country because you meet a stupid person from it someday.

[Komataguri]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Darn straight, you should resent that!

It is rascist of him not to recognize that asians can be geeks also!

But he did not say he was frail, So thus it is apples to oranges.


I win!

[arias]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

So you're saying people have an inherent right to treat people like shit. The ban message I got was "Do you see an trigger like that in the !rules or !topic you f***ing noob". I guess I have to earn the right not to be cursed at or called a noob right upon making mistakes. I'll remember that next time. Great society we live in eh.

To begin with, no one is compelled by law, or otherwise to treat other people nicely. Treating other people like shit is not exactly an "inherent right" in the sense you are framing it in, but yes, it is part of their free choice and I wouldn't have it any other way. I think you've been living in the shiny pristine, organized and lawful parts of society wayyyy too much.. Society isn't just a single faced monster; it has its dark sides. Just go to the ghetto. So to sum it up, you have to stop being naive.

I am an experienced IRC user, and I've helped strangers who politely asked for help -- I've never responded to any person who demanded information. The word "please" helps immensely. And when I roam into new sites I usually look at the rules first, or if they don't explicitly mention them I do other stuff and take a look back in the channel to see if anyone does @find. There's nothing inherently civil or equal about IRC channels; they can be as rascist, hateful, arrogant and elitist as they want, and there's hardly anything you can do about it. Just stay under the radar with respect to overly obnoxious channel operators.

I do think that it'll be more helpful if channels pointed to the intro-to-IRC-FAQ in their channel topics, because it's simply a huge drain to keep teaching newbies.. you teach one and there's another.. they spawn endlessly.

Also, while you expouse a view telling veterans to be kinder to newbies.. and that's true in a sense; you're all new and you don't know what to do, it can be frustrating if what you try gets you banned. But you should also consider the position of these seasoned users.. having noobs come in everyday and ask the same sort of questions can get quite unbearable. It's like tech support.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

So you're saying people have an inherent right to treat people like shit. The ban message I got was "Do you see an trigger like that in the !rules or !topic you f***ing noob". I guess I have to earn the right not to be cursed at or called a noob right upon making mistakes. I'll remember that next time. Great society we live in eh.

First, if you're a person who takes things very personally, you should avoid IRC. I'd also recommend many forms of internet communication. There are two reasons for this: for one, you lose body language. With pure text and no intonation, you can never be sure when people are joking or actually being hostile, and people do tend to assume the worst. The other reason is that some people take on extreme behaviors over the internet, purely because it isn't the physical realm.

Yes, there are people who act like complete assholes, both ops and regular people. Some people don't realize that what they're doing, such as a kick, will greatly upset others. In the past I've frequently chided fellow ops for being very liberal with kicks and bans. They either don't think of the person on the other end, or a kick/ban doesn't mean anything to them and they feel that everyone else feels the same way.

With regard to why people aren't helpful, I'll put it to you like this: there's too many people wanting help. I used to jump for every single person who needed help, guiding them through until they were 100% satisfied. I'd probably be great on customer service, too bad I can't be paid for this. What happened? It became redundant. People were asking the same questions over and over, and many of them were very, very simple. It became frustrating: most of us who are technically literate didn't get to where we were by asking questions all the time, but by trying things out for ourselves or by looking it up. With search engines the way they are now, there is practically nothing you can't find.

In my case, I just stopped offering to help, and in some cases I'd ignore people. Being kind to others is important to me. It isn't to everyone else. They took it out by kicking/banning or mocking the people who were asking for help. It wasn't personal against those people, but against the fact that many people were simply coming to us first rather than trying to help themselves first. It's frustrating to people trying to help, because even if you help one person, the issue is seemingly always around. These aren't highly specific issues, or even high-level complicated issues. These are things where guides are freely available.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but please don't take it personally, and please don't let a few rude people make the name that goes for the rest of us as well.

[Drake]

personally i dont like irc

from back in my online gaming days when it took 10mins to decypher a sentance writen in L337 speek....and all mods where god who must have the ***'s kiss'ed by all ¬_¬

but i remember hearing this phrase a while back concerning irc "This is the internet we are not your friends"