AnimeSuki Forums

arias · 2006-07-12, 16:26

From: http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q3-2006/071206a.html

Quote:

At a gathering of third-party executives last week, Square Enix president Yoichi Wada talked about business opportunities straight out of PC game development in the advent of consoles hosting online play. Wada described three advantages:

Trial Chapters: Wada explained that this option will allow gamers to download the first 'chapter' of a game as a trial and then choose to pay for later installments.
In-Game Advertising: Even if a game does not revolve around its online component, Wada remarked how ads can be placed in-game.
Software Updates: Finally, like patches present in today's online gaming, Wada observed how developers can cut back on time spent on debugging and patch a game later.

There was no mention of what future projects these features would be employed in. RPGamer will keep you informed of other business developments as they come along.

Horrible. Just horrible. If they go this way, I'm abandoning them. This could be just the right time too, as I'm graduating from University and heading for a work-filled life. Still, Squeenix adopting strategies like Half-Life 2 episodes is filthy... Using patches is also shameful; it's just like using gamers as the testers. If it'll drop the prices of games because of the reduction in need for game testes, I'm all for it. But of course, these strategies are deployed only to increase profit..

I guess with in-game advertising, we'll no longer have Tonic as the basic healing item but someting like Gatorade..

Potatochobit · 2006-07-12, 16:45

what exactly are you complaining about? update patches are very very important to PC games. new content, fixed problems, there is nothing you should be complaining about.

have you not played final fantasy online? its the exact same thing. you are not being a game tester they still have beta servers. there isnt going to be commercial breaks every 15mins if thats what you are thinking.

Varion · 2006-07-12, 17:26

Oh dear...

Okay, let's look at the good points first. Trials, providing they're simple demos, are a good thing. Better to download a demo and realise you don't like a game, or find out you do and now have an incentive to buy it, instead of paying full price and finding out the hard way.

Now, on to the bad points.

Releasing in Chapters - Half Life 2 is a great example here. You can charge for every bit of extra content, but release it more cheaply so that the overall cost is higher. Seen as you've been paying in installments, you don't realise it's adding up and are fine with it. Extra money for them, less money for us for buying the exact same product. I can't see how that's an advantage.

In-game Advertising - Clearly not an advantage no matter how you look at it. Sure, they could use the advertising money to lower the price, but chances are that's not even entered their minds, they just hope it'll become standard and no one will notice. Sure, it's not going to be '15 minute commercial breaks' but it's just... wrong. I'm in mystical fantasy land, I don't want to see flyers for Diet Coke, nor do I want to raise my hero's attack stat by giving him a can of red bull. In games in GTA you could argue it 'contributed to realism' and I wouldn't know because I don't play those kinds of games, but this is Square Enix here.

Software Updates - Fine, if there's an occasional update for a tiny problem that went under their radar, fine, that's an advantage. I'd love some glitch fixes for the Sonic Adventure games, for example, and won't be getting those - but it's going to bring more disadvantages than advantages. The reason update patches are 'very very important to PC games' is because they can get away with it. Why spend months bug testing when you can just let players find all this stuff themselves, ruining their enjoyment of the game, while you rake in the profits? After all, everyone's got broadband. I pity everyone who bought Summer Days and was forced to download that 1.5gb patch because no one could be bothered properly bug testing it. As for 'new content', well, that comes back to the first point - you can release less than you planned to with 'the promise of more content' to keep people there, and then you can make them pay for the extra stuff which would have been in it! Awesome. You can't get away with that kind of stuff with consoles, if you realised a PS2 game where you couldn't fight the final boss there'd be an uproar. PC? Oh, better check the site and see if there's some patches available... you'd just end up with sloppily-released games by the bucketload.

Yep, it's sad that it's come to that but I don't think anyone can say any of those are entirely unexpected :/ Oh well, guess it just leaves us to hope not every company will have such little regard for their work they're willing to rush it out, full of bugs, in expensive chapters full of adverts they can rake in the profit from.

Oh, and game testes is a great typo

arias · 2006-07-12, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

have you not played final fantasy online? its the exact same thing. you are not being a game tester they still have beta servers. there isnt going to be commercial breaks every 15mins if thats what you are thinking.

.......

They're not talking about utilizing this strategy for Online games, they're talking about using this for CONSOLE games. And not for only online games.

arias · 2006-07-12, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdra

Oh, and game testes is a great typo

...

Hell yeah

WolfCoder · 2006-07-13, 02:10

(I like how you called Square Enix, 'squeenix' in the title, it sounds like something you need pepto bismol before going to the toilet)

Don't worry, i'm still angry of how brutally they murdered FFT with their GBA version. Now i'll have to drink Gatorade and rest the heros at a Motel 6 or something. It's like those photoshop jokes only horribly true, wow, but 'squeenix' doesn't surprise me one bit. I knew they would crap out. One of the extremly few things from them I actually feel like playing is FFXII.

There's nothing like Gatorade, proven to restore warrior's MP to it's fullest, nothing refuels you more than the electrolytes in Gatorade. It's got stuff water doesn't have. Is it in you?

Urzu 7 · 2006-07-13, 02:45

And so what would seem Sony's biggest ally now takes a turn for the worst. I hope they don't employ this in Wii games (this seems like PS3 material because of trial chapters and patches, but they could possibly do it on any console. :-\).

iceyfw · 2006-07-13, 03:11

rofl wolfcoder. squareenix might just go in the hair business industry if they're doing pc game strategies now

DarkCntry · 2006-07-13, 05:43

You guys make it sound like Squeenix is the first company out there to do this on the consoles...SOCOM ring a bell? MGS3 ring any others?

Sure, they can release content and other types of things for free, but for large content packs, i.e.- something completely new, be it maps, items, other visual changes, etc, then there shouldn't be a problem plopping down a few bucks here and there. And no, I am not talking about BethSoft's approach with Oblivion...I'm talking about larger enhancements.

As for in-game advertising, if it is used it'll almost be assured that it'll be non-intrusive or out-of-place and almost guaranteed to lower prices of the product that contains said advertisements. Squeenix is not a group of retarded monkeys trying to bash a square stake through a wooden hole here guys, they aren't going to jump head-first into something that would almost assuredly finish them totally. And please, no bringing up The Spirits Within, as that is something wholly different.

Also, the 'trial' things, I guess there's more of you that are too young to remeber the days of Shareware.

WolfCoder · 2006-07-14, 09:56

We're not saying squeenix is the first to do so, we're simply angry they are taking that road. It's a square peg through a round hole, and they're not doing that. Instead Square's being bashed through Enix and they fit much like the square peg through the round hole.

Don't worry, we're all trying to forget the painful Spirits Within.

Just think of what will happen when squeenix uses all the annoying PC techniques. Advertisments have to be in the way or people will ignore them. Some people compained about the pop-ups on this site. I didn't even know this place had ad banners. But people said the pop-ups are so annyoing, but they comment on the content (meaning they paid attention to it even when it's in German).

Keep in mind they're simply a business who wants money. Only the actual game designers/programmers/ect.. are all about the game.

Daniel E. · 2006-07-14, 10:30

Wasn't Parasite Eve 2 full of in-game ads?

WolfCoder · 2006-07-14, 11:18

All parasite eve 2 has was a Coke machine. And you had to look at the machine to find that out, the menu just said a can of soda.

Daniel E. · 2006-07-14, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfCoder

All parasite eve 2 has was a Coke machine. And you had to look at the machine to find that out, the menu just said a can of soda.

There were also other "Coke related items" if I remember correctly; Also, there was more than one Coke machine as well.

Still, I dont think those Coke ads where actually annoying to begin with (although, I think I gave that impression with my firts post

).

Anyway, IMHO, I dont think this will be much of a big deal. If the gameplay is good, I can be be somewhat forgiving in other areas/aspects of the game.

WolfCoder · 2006-07-14, 13:55

Even when you're character is wearing a jacket that looks like one a stock car racer would wear?

arias · 2006-07-14, 14:04

I think there's a real valid point in preserving the FANTASY of a game set in a fantasy world. Sure, I see that it is possible and maybe even an enhancement of immersion if you put in products from real life in a game that has a modern or contemporary setting. That is, it seems rather believable that there are Coke machines or Gatorades or Red Bull in a Parasite Eve game set in New York.

However, I don't see how that can translate to items in a game set in a fantasy world --- which most Final Fantasies are. I really don't want to drink Red Bull to boost +1 to my strength stat.. I am not entirely anti-commercialism, but I do dislike it to the extent that the game design and such would be compromised by trying to adhere to the advertisements.

Eventually, should product placement gain momentum as a major source of income, this could be VERY detrimental to game development. Not that modern game development is spared from the stereotypical elements and characters created to attract the widest possible consumer base possible...

Daniel E. · 2006-07-14, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfCoder

Even when you're character is wearing a jacket that looks like one a stock car racer would wear?

Do you really think this ad thing will actually go that far? I mean, it can happen but until I actually see it, I will be more than willing to give SE the benefit of doubt.

If it does go that far, I'll be more than happy to complain along everyone else.

hcl4 · 2006-07-14, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by arias

I think there's a real valid point in preserving the FANTASY of a game set in a fantasy world. Sure, I see that it is possible and maybe even an enhancement of immersion if you put in products from real life in a game that has a modern or contemporary setting. That is, it seems rather believable that there are Coke machines or Gatorades or Red Bull in a Parasite Eve game set in New York.

Actually Final Fantasy does have a mix of fantasy with sci-fi/tech elements since FF6. FFVII had a mix of swords, magic, guns, airships, motorcycles, helicoptors. I don't know much about FFXII but I remember there was a comparision to Star Wars. I just don't remember exactly where I got that from though. And FFXIII looks to be the most futuristic FF game yet. I don't know how Coke would fit in a fantasy/sci-fi game. Maybe make a totally new brand of Coke or something(Future Coke?).

Ending · 2006-07-14, 16:23

Have to agree with what Valdra said, but then again I don't like of Squeenix in any case. Too many sequels-sequels and too little new content. In my eyes, they're just leeching the game-markets and making it all the more difficult for the creative companies to step in.

Depends of POV, of course.

DarkCntry · 2006-07-14, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfCoder

We're not saying squeenix is the first to do so, we're simply angry they are taking that road. It's a square peg through a round hole, and they're not doing that. Instead Square's being bashed through Enix and they fit much like the square peg through the round hole.

Yes, I know it's a round hole, considering the fact I was half asleep I didn't catch my mistake. There's nothing to be angry about if they take this road, I'd be more suprised if others didn't start following this market plan in the near future.

Quote:

Don't worry, we're all trying to forget the painful Spirits Within.

I didn't find it awful...

Quote:

Just think of what will happen when squeenix uses all the annoying PC techniques. Advertisments have to be in the way or people will ignore them. Some people compained about the pop-ups on this site. I didn't even know this place had ad banners. But people said the pop-ups are so annyoing, but they comment on the content (meaning they paid attention to it even when it's in German).

Funny, Anarchy Online has a version solely supported by in-game ads, sure they are pretty out-of-place, but they aren't directly in your face to where you cannot ignore them. People aren't aware of how things need to be run, you cannot have the cake and eat it too in today's world. Advertising is used to drive the end-user's costs down while still keeping the person using them in either the black or green. This means for sites like ASuki, they use the ads to keep the place free for people without basically throwing money out the window.

Quote:

Keep in mind they're simply a business who wants money. Only the actual game designers/programmers/ect.. are all about the game.

Yea, because those designers/programmers/etc all work pro-bono...believe it or not, almost every decent company out there works for the people they service, Squeenix is no different. Hell, Squeenix has been putting things out directly as a result of fan input for years and years, and some of those things weren't taken too kindly by the fans, Spirits Within comes to mind and recently the Advent Children disapproval by fans. These were done to appease fans, and because a lot of them have chips on their shoulders they couldn't enjoy it, they had to trash it and cause a crapload of lost sales because of it. Now, sure, there are places like EA who turn everyone into conveyer belts for software, but I also know that there are various developers there who are after just the bottom-line.

Then you have places like StarDock, who release things solely on consumer input...these people are everywhere.

WolfCoder · 2006-07-14, 22:04

I do however, agree for cities such as ones seen in FF7, that ads can be seamlessly placed on buildings and other such areas to give a much realistic feel (like in Midnight Club and GTA). That I can accept since they add to the atmosphere the designer wants to create and they're not in your face (but the user still sees them).

2006-07-13, 02:45	Link #7
Urzu 7 Juanita/Kiteless Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New England Age: 40	And so what would seem Sony's biggest ally now takes a turn for the worst. I hope they don't employ this in Wii games (this seems like PS3 material because of trial chapters and patches, but they could possibly do it on any console. :-\). __________________

2006-07-13, 05:43	Link #9
DarkCntry Blue Dawn Join Date: Jun 2004 Age: 44	You guys make it sound like Squeenix is the first company out there to do this on the consoles...SOCOM ring a bell? MGS3 ring any others? Sure, they can release content and other types of things for free, but for large content packs, i.e.- something completely new, be it maps, items, other visual changes, etc, then there shouldn't be a problem plopping down a few bucks here and there. And no, I am not talking about BethSoft's approach with Oblivion...I'm talking about larger enhancements. As for in-game advertising, if it is used it'll almost be assured that it'll be non-intrusive or out-of-place and almost guaranteed to lower prices of the product that contains said advertisements. Squeenix is not a group of retarded monkeys trying to bash a square stake through a wooden hole here guys, they aren't going to jump head-first into something that would almost assuredly finish them totally. And please, no bringing up The Spirits Within, as that is something wholly different. Also, the 'trial' things, I guess there's more of you that are too young to remeber the days of Shareware. __________________

2006-07-14, 10:30	Link #11
Daniel E. AniMexican! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico	Wasn't Parasite Eve 2 full of in-game ads? __________________

2006-07-12, 16:45	Link #2
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	what exactly are you complaining about? update patches are very very important to PC games. new content, fixed problems, there is nothing you should be complaining about. have you not played final fantasy online? its the exact same thing. you are not being a game tester they still have beta servers. there isnt going to be commercial breaks every 15mins if thats what you are thinking.

2006-07-12, 17:26	Link #3
Varion 殲滅天使 Join Date: Dec 2005	Oh dear... Okay, let's look at the good points first. Trials, providing they're simple demos, are a good thing. Better to download a demo and realise you don't like a game, or find out you do and now have an incentive to buy it, instead of paying full price and finding out the hard way. Now, on to the bad points. Releasing in Chapters - Half Life 2 is a great example here. You can charge for every bit of extra content, but release it more cheaply so that the overall cost is higher. Seen as you've been paying in installments, you don't realise it's adding up and are fine with it. Extra money for them, less money for us for buying the exact same product. I can't see how that's an advantage. In-game Advertising - Clearly not an advantage no matter how you look at it. Sure, they could use the advertising money to lower the price, but chances are that's not even entered their minds, they just hope it'll become standard and no one will notice. Sure, it's not going to be '15 minute commercial breaks' but it's just... wrong. I'm in mystical fantasy land, I don't want to see flyers for Diet Coke, nor do I want to raise my hero's attack stat by giving him a can of red bull. In games in GTA you could argue it 'contributed to realism' and I wouldn't know because I don't play those kinds of games, but this is Square Enix here. Software Updates - Fine, if there's an occasional update for a tiny problem that went under their radar, fine, that's an advantage. I'd love some glitch fixes for the Sonic Adventure games, for example, and won't be getting those - but it's going to bring more disadvantages than advantages. The reason update patches are 'very very important to PC games' is because they can get away with it. Why spend months bug testing when you can just let players find all this stuff themselves, ruining their enjoyment of the game, while you rake in the profits? After all, everyone's got broadband. I pity everyone who bought Summer Days and was forced to download that 1.5gb patch because no one could be bothered properly bug testing it. As for 'new content', well, that comes back to the first point - you can release less than you planned to with 'the promise of more content' to keep people there, and then you can make them pay for the extra stuff which would have been in it! Awesome. You can't get away with that kind of stuff with consoles, if you realised a PS2 game where you couldn't fight the final boss there'd be an uproar. PC? Oh, better check the site and see if there's some patches available... you'd just end up with sloppily-released games by the bucketload. Yep, it's sad that it's come to that but I don't think anyone can say any of those are entirely unexpected :/ Oh well, guess it just leaves us to hope not every company will have such little regard for their work they're willing to rush it out, full of bugs, in expensive chapters full of adverts they can rake in the profit from. Oh, and game testes is a great typo

2006-07-13, 02:10	Link #6
WolfCoder wolfen programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Desert Zone	(I like how you called Square Enix, 'squeenix' in the title, it sounds like something you need pepto bismol before going to the toilet) Don't worry, i'm still angry of how brutally they murdered FFT with their GBA version. Now i'll have to drink Gatorade and rest the heros at a Motel 6 or something. It's like those photoshop jokes only horribly true, wow, but 'squeenix' doesn't surprise me one bit. I knew they would crap out. One of the extremly few things from them I actually feel like playing is FFXII. There's nothing like Gatorade, proven to restore warrior's MP to it's fullest, nothing refuels you more than the electrolytes in Gatorade. It's got stuff water doesn't have. Is it in you?

2006-07-13, 03:11	Link #8
iceyfw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 35	rofl wolfcoder. squareenix might just go in the hair business industry if they're doing pc game strategies now

2006-07-14, 09:56	Link #10
WolfCoder wolfen programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Desert Zone	We're not saying squeenix is the first to do so, we're simply angry they are taking that road. It's a square peg through a round hole, and they're not doing that. Instead Square's being bashed through Enix and they fit much like the square peg through the round hole. Don't worry, we're all trying to forget the painful Spirits Within. Just think of what will happen when squeenix uses all the annoying PC techniques. Advertisments have to be in the way or people will ignore them. Some people compained about the pop-ups on this site. I didn't even know this place had ad banners. But people said the pop-ups are so annyoing, but they comment on the content (meaning they paid attention to it even when it's in German). Keep in mind they're simply a business who wants money. Only the actual game designers/programmers/ect.. are all about the game.

2006-07-14, 11:18	Link #12
WolfCoder wolfen programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Desert Zone	All parasite eve 2 has was a Coke machine. And you had to look at the machine to find that out, the menu just said a can of soda.

2006-07-14, 13:55	Link #14
WolfCoder wolfen programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Desert Zone	Even when you're character is wearing a jacket that looks like one a stock car racer would wear?

2006-07-14, 14:04	Link #15
arias Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	I think there's a real valid point in preserving the FANTASY of a game set in a fantasy world. Sure, I see that it is possible and maybe even an enhancement of immersion if you put in products from real life in a game that has a modern or contemporary setting. That is, it seems rather believable that there are Coke machines or Gatorades or Red Bull in a Parasite Eve game set in New York. However, I don't see how that can translate to items in a game set in a fantasy world --- which most Final Fantasies are. I really don't want to drink Red Bull to boost +1 to my strength stat.. I am not entirely anti-commercialism, but I do dislike it to the extent that the game design and such would be compromised by trying to adhere to the advertisements. Eventually, should product placement gain momentum as a major source of income, this could be VERY detrimental to game development. Not that modern game development is spared from the stereotypical elements and characters created to attract the widest possible consumer base possible...

2006-07-14, 16:23	Link #18
Ending Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Have to agree with what Valdra said, but then again I don't like of Squeenix in any case. Too many sequels-sequels and too little new content. In my eyes, they're just leeching the game-markets and making it all the more difficult for the creative companies to step in. Depends of POV, of course.

2006-07-14, 22:04	Link #20
WolfCoder wolfen programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Desert Zone	I do however, agree for cities such as ones seen in FF7, that ads can be seamlessly placed on buildings and other such areas to give a much realistic feel (like in Midnight Club and GTA). That I can accept since they add to the atmosphere the designer wants to create and they're not in your face (but the user still sees them).