[manga] Sasuke Surpassing Orochimaru?

[MobiuS]

Before anyone starts ragging on me, I still personally prefer Orochimaru. I have to do this due to a World Cup bet with Uchiha Rave over MSN. Stupid Italy beat Germany T____T*

Ps. Im supposed to give 5 solid reasons. Yet I know only 1. Ill add more as I think about them.

Evidence that Sasuke is surpassing Orochimaru:

1.) Sharingan

No doubt the magical hack-eye/plothole holds enough power to surpass a supervillian like Orochimaru. Its evident when a younger and less experienced Itachi was able to surpass an individual that had the capability of waging war versus possibly the largest Village we know of. The sharingan would be comparable to Goku vs SSJ4 Goku. The difference is very spectacular.

Take a look:
A quick trip back to Sasuke versus Naruto. It was evident that Sasuke was unable to outpower the "filtered" Kyuubi. Yet due to GREAT Sharingan insight, he was able to avoid a target that was considerably faster than himself.

The Sharingan creates tremendous learning potential ... fast enough to absorb all the moves Orochimaru has to show.

A quick analysis of the possibilites Sharingan creates mean that Sasuke can become Orochimaru in a relatively short time. AND then surpass him.

<more will be added in the near future>

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Are you trying to tell that you want us to give you opinions why Sasuke is greater then Orochimaru for your own personal bet with Rave?

Fine i will help out:
(assuming that you are a boy and rave a girl...perhaps attracted to eachother...)

2) She (rave) is a girl...who is always right...if she says so...a guy cant disagree..
3) Because Sasuke has a better sense for fashion then Orochimaru
4) Because he is more of a main character then Orochimaru
5) He is destined to fight or win of Itachi who is stronger then Orochimaru

But you know...Sasuke isnt there yet...Orochimaru is still stronger...

[Biswa]

Well, don't forget that Orichimaru intends to take over Sasuke after a certain point, right? Unless i missed something...

So it'd be better for Orochimaru if Sasuke surpasses him.

[Syaoran]

I've to make a note never to bet with Uchiha Rave O.o
Looks like we guys have no chance and can only bite in the dust afterwards.

[Rachy]

2) She (rave) is a girl...who is always right...if she says so...a guy cant disagree..
3) Because Sasuke has a better sense for fashion then Orochimaru

Right.

5) He is destined to fight or win of Itachi who is stronger then Orochimaru

Maybe.

So it'd be better for Orochimaru if Sasuke surpasses him.

if? Sasuke already has ^^.

But you know...Sasuke isnt there yet...Orochimaru is still stronger...

In his current condition Orochimaru is lucky Sasuke still wants to learn from him because Sasuke could kill him; His body ish weak.

And even if Orochimaru got a new one Sasuke would still kill him, he couldn't touch Sasuke.

[Wolcik]

did somebody forget that Orochimaru is the person that wants to know all the jutsus in the world, and create new, and he already went throu hell of investigating and reaserches
he probably know more jutsu than 3rd Hokage that was called Professor and was meant to know all of them, and Orochimaru as "never aging" won't lose his chakra like 3rd did
Orochimaru has hell lot of chakra for all those jutsus and he even knows "I'll kill u in blink of an eye if u're background character"

[Kotengu]

Just because someone has sharingan doesn't mean they can learn anything they want. Sasuke had to train pretty hard to get like lee, and learn to do the chidori. Overall thou I think that naruto will have role in sasuke surpassing oro.
If kishi has done what I think he's done with naruto's new training, naruto could easily have sanin level jutsu MASTERY in a year

Spoiler:

being able to learn and practice 1000 times faster is pretty sick. Even if naruto is stupid he still comes out hundreds of times faster than other ninja. Not to mention that the training is going to make him the greatest chakra container of all time! Finally naruto is gowing to ownz

We all remember how pissed sasuke was that naruto got a little stronger than him. So when naruto becomes stronger than oro(maby) from that pathetic show he put on before, it's prolly the only thing that's going to get sasuke's gears turning again.

[Yellow Flash]

So far only a few known shinobi are stronger than Orochimaru:

Yondaime, Sakumo, Madara, Itachi, Sarutobi, Danzou, (possibly) Shodai and Nidaime.

[MobiuS]

Goddamn Im behind. When did I miss the memo that Danzou is stronger than Orochimaru? Madara simply because of Sharingan? Who is Sakumo?

~*Rave*~ says:
you can add to your reasons that sasuke can seal kyuubi off himself, has a kusanagi, is a genius, could get MS, his speed etc etc

1.) Orochimaru has Kusanagi. If anything he gave it to Sasuke ... meaning that Oro isnt scared that Sasuke could turn on him even with the power of Kusanagi.

2.) Possible that Sasuke could get MS. As far as we know, he doesnt have it. No surpassing due to an inconclusive proof.

3.) Speed. Last time I checked, Orochimaru was no slouch. Even without any speed enhancing jutsus (which as a jutsu master, one can assume he has at least one) he has danced circles around many Konoha elites. Hes no rookie when it comes to speed. Invalid point.

FYI: This isnt a fanboy thread so looks or "smexiness" (as a certain Uchiha Fan *cough* rave *cough* would put it) doesnt count as a valid point.


Perhaps attracted to each other? LOL - Guess again. I think shes really pretty, but No. We are only bound by our constant arguments over Orochimaru versus Sasuke. Which led me to this hole Im in.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Goddamn Im behind. When did I miss the memo that Danzou is stronger than Orochimaru? Madara simply because of Sharingan? Who is Sakumo?



1.) Orochimaru has Kusanagi. If anything he gave it to Sasuke ... meaning that Oro isnt scared that Sasuke could turn on him even with the power of Kusanagi.

2.) Possible that Sasuke could get MS. As far as we know, he doesnt have it. No surpassing due to an inconclusive proof.

3.) Speed. Last time I checked, Orochimaru was no slouch. Even without any speed enhancing jutsus (which as a jutsu master, one can assume he has at least one) he has danced circles around many Konoha elites. Hes no rookie when it comes to speed. Invalid point.

FYI: This isnt a fanboy thread so looks or "smexiness" (as a certain Uchiha Fan *cough* rave *cough* would put it) doesnt count as a valid point.


Perhaps attracted to each other? LOL - Guess again. I think shes really pretty, but No. We are only bound by our constant arguments over Orochimaru versus Sasuke. Which led me to this hole Im in.

Sakumo = Hatake Sakumo...Kakashi's father (who was respected on the same lvl as the Sannin) there is no proof that he was stronger though.

Uchiha Madara was one time mentioned by the Kyuubi and already people are saying he is stronger then "..." only his name was mentioned so we cant compare his strenght to even Konohamaru.

If Sasuke was in the same place as Orochimaru....
If Sasuke were to fight the 4th form of Naruto (4tailed) then Sasuke he'd die atleast 4-5 times.

Because of Orochimaru's weird techniques he survived that battle...Naruto's arm slash was harder then a Punch of Tsunade and was like a blade that cut through Orochimaru.

Sasuke already has trouble following the Chakra so he'd surely die if he got hit...Sasuke is still below Orochimaru's lvl.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Sakumo = Hatake Sakumo...Kakashi's father (who was respected on the same lvl as the Sannin) there is no proof that he was stronger though.

Not on the same level. His power was ABOVE the sannin.
Before his abilities, the sannin name is petty.

Uchiha Madara was one time mentioned by the Kyuubi and already people are saying he is stronger then "..." only his name was mentioned so we cant compare his strenght to even Konohamaru.

Kyuubi fears Uchiha Madara, and clearly referred to him as the most outstanding Uchiha, a legend.

If Sasuke was in the same place as Orochimaru....
If Sasuke were to fight the 4th form of Naruto (4tailed) then Sasuke he'd die atleast 4-5 times.

LOL

No. Kyuubi can't even reveal his power against Sasuke, as the manga proved.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

So far only a few known shinobi are stronger than Orochimaru:

Yondaime, Sakumo, Madara, Itachi, Sarutobi, Danzou, (possibly) Shodai and Nidaime.

In another thread you said Sasuke>Yondaime.
So if Yondaime>Orochimaru, Sasuke>Orochimaru after your logic... but that was never your strength.

And I will not argue about Yonadime, Sakumo, Madara, Sarutobi, Danzou, Shodai and Nidaime... We don't know who's stronger because they never fought. But again, restraint wasn't one of your strengths either.

Not on the same level. His power was ABOVE the sannin.
Before his abilities, the sannin name is petty.

Please... only facts from the manga in a serious discussion.

Kyuubi fears Uchiha Madara, and clearly referred to him as the most outstanding Uchiha, a legend.

With your imagination you should create a whole manga of yourself^^

No. Kyuubi can't even reveal his power against Sasuke, as the manga proved.

The manga proved that Sasuke can supress Kyuubi's sealed chakra inside Naruto... This can't be compared to a raging demon that attacked Konoha years ago.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by ri0

In another thread you said Sasuke>Yondaime.

Yondaime > Sasuke.

And I will not argue about Yonadime, Sakumo, Madara, Sarutobi, Danzou, Shodai and Nidaime... We don't know who's stronger because they never fought. But again, restraint wasn't one of your strengths either.

I have given proof in many other threads....short summary:

- Yondaime defeated Orochimaru in a fight about Hokage.

- Madara is the Uchiha legend, above Itachi, who is stronger than Orochimaru.

- Sarutobi is god of shinobi, in his prime stronger than Orochimaru.

- Danzou was on the same level as Sarutobi.

- Shodai and Nidaime are probably stronger.

Originally Posted by ri0

Please... only facts from the manga in a serious discussion.

Facts from the databook are just as important.

With your imagination you should create a whole manga of yourself

Reread what Itachi said about the 3rd Uchiha, what Kyuubi said about Sasuke's growth,
and compared him to Uchiha Madara.

The manga proved that Sasuke can supress Kyuubi's sealed chakra inside Naruto... This can't be compared to a raging demon that attacked Konoha years ago.

Yes? So if Kyuubi gets out, his chakra is different?

The manga disagrees with you...um, about 150 times,
when various people recognized the distinctive kyuubi chakra inside of Naruto.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Yondaime > Sasuke.

title of YOUR other thread:
Sasuke is stronger than Yondaime

- Yondaime defeated Orochimaru for Hokage title.

Over and over again -.-

- Madara is the Uchiha legend, above Itachi, who is stronger than Orochimaru.

We don't know that Madara is above Itachi... And again a>b and b>c doesn't mean a>c

- Sarutobi is god of shinobi, in his prime stronger than Orochimaru.

But it was his pity that he fought him not in his prime...

- Danzou was on the same level as Sarutobi.

And again a>b and b>c doesn't mean a>c

- Shodai and Nidaime are probably stronger, though I'm not sure.

Agree

[Blaine]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Not on the same level. His power was ABOVE the sannin.
Before his abilities, the sannin name is petty.

Yet another mistake on your part

Spoiler:

As you can see the translation says he was respected on the same level as the sannin

- Yondaime defeated Orochimaru in a fight about Hokage.

There is no evidence they actually fought. All we know is that yondaime was chosen over oro.

- Danzou was on the same level as Sarutobi.

Again no evidence that they were equal in strength all we know is they contested the seat of hokage.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Blaine

Yet another mistake on your part

Spoiler:

As you can see the translation says he was respected on the same level as the sannin

The translation for this manga page is that the sannin name was nothing compared to Sakumo.

In the databook it is again confirmed that Sakumo's power was above sannin level.

There is no evidence they actually fought. All we know is that yondaime was chosen over oro.

These are the facts:

Orochimaru left the village and didn't come back until Yondaime was dead.

Orochimaru decided to kill Naruto when the kid mastered Rasengan, which spooked him.

Yondaime can manipulate time and space and freely fly around the battlefield,
according to databook, so Orochimaru would die quickly and not even stand a chance.

"If you ever see the Yellow Flash, run for your life, because you can't win."

This was the line that all ninja memorized when Yondaime was still alive.

[Blaine]

Lets see the data book info that backs up you claims then

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Orochimaru left the village and didn't come back until Yondaime was dead.

So?

Orochimaru decided to kill Naruto when the kid mastered Rasengan, which spooked him.

He was shocked by Naruto's jutsu learning progess and that he can handle this jutsu... not by the jutsu itself or even it's creator.

Yondaime can manipulate time and spice and freely fly around the battlefield,
according to databook, so Orochimaru would die quickly and not even stand a chance.

Of course the Legend Orochimaru would die instantly... really really realistic indeed.



You also forgot to answer my previous post... I post it again so you can answer it now:

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Yondaime > Sasuke.

title of YOUR other thread:
Sasuke is stronger than Yondaime

- Yondaime defeated Orochimaru for Hokage title.

Over and over again -.-

- Madara is the Uchiha legend, above Itachi, who is stronger than Orochimaru.

We don't know that Madara is above Itachi... And again a>b and b>c doesn't mean a>c

- Sarutobi is god of shinobi, in his prime stronger than Orochimaru.

But it was his pity that he fought him not in his prime...

- Danzou was on the same level as Sarutobi.

And again a>b and b>c doesn't mean a>c

- Shodai and Nidaime are probably stronger, though I'm not sure.

Agree

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by ri0

So?

Evidence that Orochimaru was afraid.

He was shocked by Naruto's jutsu learning progess and that he can handle this jutsu... not by the jutsu itself or even it's creator.

The Sannin knows this jutsu [Rasengan] well, and Orochimaru was scared.

Of course the Legend Orochimaru would die instantly... really really realistic indeed.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

The monk, one of the great 12 ninja, who was a dangerous ninja...

Akatsuki killed him as if he was nothing.

The Nibi Girl, who was feared for her legendary bijuu power, that would kill you if you let your guard down.

Akatsuki defeated the girl easily.

Gaara, the lord of the desert who swallows all, the most feared sand ninja.

An Akatsuki defeated him quickly.

and so on...

[Wolcik]

but why to argue about dead or half-dead shinobi's strenght?

Yondaime could be GOD, but he still bowed before Kyuubi... and died

1st and 2nd Hokage died and like 4th were sealed inside Shinigami, so we won't even see them again...
but bringing back dead won't give them 100% strenght
like 3rd Kazekage were suppose to rock, and was shown pretty useless in few chapters...


what's up with this databook? is it some kind of realesed "plot holes filler" that will eventually need update after mangaka think of some other "plottwist"
(like Kakashi using Kage Bunshin on bridge (after Zaku is dead) instead of some less chakra consuming Bunshin jutsu when he knows over 1000 jutsus, and with his last bit of chakra shouldn't be able to do that...
Kakashi can 4 chidori, and Sasuke without seal can 2, and got even stronger...)

Sasuke is so much of a genius that he can suprass anybody :|

hardworking Lee (few years of training) in one month,
Kakashi (25-35 years of training) in 3 years,
and eventually his brother and Oro, that were 1 in 1000 years geniuses :|