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xris · 2008-07-02, 07:57

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marvelB · 2008-07-02, 08:04

Quite a plot-heavy chapter, but to make a long story short:

-Both Kidd and Law are ready to fight against Kuma.

-Rayleigh tells the Straw-Hats about his history with Roger. It turns out that he had turned himself in to the marines. He also had an incurable disease, so he had brought along the old man Crocus (Laboon's caretaker) with him as his doctor. After becoming Pirate King, he told Rayleigh that "he wouldn't die", before his execution. He also tells Luffy and co. That Buggy and Shanks were former crewmates of Roger.

-Finally, Kizaru decides to make a flashy entrance via cannonball....

Yep, definitely an awesome chapter. Though, Roger turning himself in didn't really surprise me. Heh, it's nice to see that Crocus actually WAS part of Roger's crew, after all (though it seems that he actually joined to look for Brooke's former crew). And... I dunno about anybody else, but Roger's face looks kinda wierd up close.

And now we have a showdown between Kidd and Law vs. Kuma. It'll definitely be awesome to see both captains kick some ass, but I'm still not entirely certain that they'll beat Kuma, especially if Kizaru decides to back him up....

gnc742 · 2008-07-02, 08:27

Well, everyone who was on good terms with Roger knew that Luffy had a resemblance to the Pirate King.

I knew Shanks just didn't saved Luffy because they were friends. It is possible that that incurable disease which Roger had is somewhat the same to the illness that Dr. Hiluluk(I forgot his name) had.

After they said goodbye to each other(SC and Crocus), he was talking to himself "The Pirates that gave me a very strange atmosphere, don't you think so, roger?" It was already hinted at that time that he was once a part of Roger's crew. So it's nothing much to be surprised about. Though I was happy to hear he really is.

@marbelB I agree with you on Kuma vs. Law+Kid. I think that even with the two of them, they can't touch Kuma. I wanna hear Kuma saying to both of them that Luffy defeated 2 Shichibukai and how surprised they would be.

shankss · 2008-07-02, 09:24

Well I diasgree about Kuma vs 2 SuperNovas.It will be a hard fight for sure but we've already seen what Kuma was capable of.It would be weird to let him slay everyone again and go away happily like the strongest character in series..And Zoro is the one that will probly take him down...Zoro may assist Kidd+Law...

That disease can be the result of spirit energy..Maybe why the former D and lost history people got wiped out.

And finally Crocus and Laboon...those two seriously took some important roles in storyline after all, despite their fillerish look

just saw the pics, is it just me or Kizaru looks like kinda Crocodile?

Vree · 2008-07-02, 09:56

Indeed, good chapter.

But don't you think it'd be neat if Kid and Law took out a Shichibukai? Kuma has already had his fight with the Strawhats (sorta) and it still wouldn't make them better than Luffy (who took one out on his own), but it'd be a nice show that Kid and Law ARE worthy rivals to the Strawhats. And if that disappoints anyone well, there is still the fight against Kizaru to balance things out.

marvelB · 2008-07-02, 10:32

I just realized something... earlier in the series Crocus actually told Luffy and co. about when he had searched for Brooke's old crew (though he obviously didn't mention Roger to them at the time). Once again, I'm impressed at how Oda turns those little details into important plot points later in the story....

And as for Kidd and Law, I do believe that they're certainly strong enough to wear down Kuma, but I just doubt that they'll actually finish him off (though it would be awesome if they actually did). Chances are, they'll come close to it, but then Kizaru will arrive and turn the tables on them. But whether that happens or not, I'm just hoping that Rayleigh will join in on the fun now that the admiral's arrived...

Sazelyt · 2008-07-02, 12:30

Some guesses became realized in this chapter. Crocus being a part of Roger's crew (even if it is fr a short time), the path leading to Roger's execution having some unknown factors involved within (which resulted in the crew getting separated nicely instead of getting killed or hunted). We got also another time figure of 4-5 years. That may become important later on to address another concern or explain another event.

I also don't want to presume based on the summary that One Piece doesn't exist. If Oda didn't include this part by making Luffy ask about it (which is something you expect him to do first after hearing a story like that), then there might still be some unknowns about that part. There is a one year gap between disbanding and Roger's execution. If Rayleigh stayed with Roger till his turning himself in, then there is still the possibility that they might have done something within this period to come up with that One Piece idea.

Anyway, I hope the whole script comes soon. There may be some more missing details.

And the fight might be getting shaped up. I wonder if Rayleigh can take on both Kizaru and Garp at the same time, if Garp also shows up, to let Luffy and his crew go. It may become a sacrifice at the end, and that would be understandable if it has any relation to his speech about Shanks's sacrifice and suggestion of a second Roger growing up. Though, I prefer him to at least escape with the Strawhats to the mermen island.

And, about Kuma, if he is real, he will be facing Kidd and Law at the same time. I think that is a good way to make Kidd and Law leave the island. Their abilities of some kind of magnetism and partial replacement, Kidd and Law might be the opponents that Kuma wouldn't want to face because of their abilities.

Undertaker · 2008-07-02, 14:04

The best part I like about Roger's flashback is that Roger's execution was suppose to be a warning to other would-be pirate, but it ends up to be inspiration for the Age of Pirates. Base on what Roger told Rayleigh he seems to have this all planned out which just add to Roger's greatness.

Two things on my mind though,

First, we know Roger can read Poneglyph and that he transport them to Raftel. With that being said, he should be the one that knows about the Void Century and why WG try so desporate not to let others know about it. I just can't shake the feeling that part of the reason he gave himself up and did his little show was to mess with WG and hopefully leads to an age that WG can be toppled.

Second, I also can't shake the feeling that whatever plagues Roger might the the samething that plagues WB.

But yeah, the way Oda kept tighting up loose hints that originally seems minor is simply incredible. While we all suspect that Roger turn himself in instead get captured we were never told why nor have much speculation on it, now Oda confirms it and give a really compelling and believable reason simply amazes me.

By far the best storyteller in Shonen genre.

james0246 · 2008-07-02, 14:09

Does anyone else think that it is possible that it was not Gol D. Roger that was suprememly powerful, but rather the fact that he commanded a crew of powerful people that made Roger so famouse? Specifically, due to his revealed illness, is it possible that Roger was not the one fighting in battles, rather he assembled a crew of powerful pirates to fight for him while he navigated through the Grand Line.

I kind of like this idea, that the Pirate King is known for his leadership skills instead of his abilities or powers. But, I doubt it is true.

Sazelyt · 2008-07-02, 14:23

In all the crews we had seen, the leader is the most powerful. So, Roger not being extremely powerful would not fit with the story flow, even if he was ill. Considering how strong the current dino-old Rayleigh is being considered, Roger being stronger than him at his normal peak age, regardless of his illness (see the Whitebeard example), would make him extremely powerful. Also, if he weren't strong enough to command and lead his crew, then he wouldn't have continued to stay as the leader. So, I believe, he was still extremely strong the day he disbanded his crew. I don't know what happened afterwards, butthe day he was walking to his death, he didn't really look that bad. Even the current Whitebeard looks worse than how Roger was just before his death.

But, one thing is for sure. Regardless of his own strength, his name wouldn't reach afar as the strongest if he hadn't commanded a very strong (or maybe the strongest) crew.

james0246 · 2008-07-02, 14:31

^Well, Whitebeard is the one with the title of "The Stongest", as far as we know, Roger has only ever had the title of Pirate King. I just think it would be cool if Roger ruled through intelligence rather than strength, and the fact that he was deathly ill could be a way for Oda to create such a story.

kari-no-sugata · 2008-07-02, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by james3wk

^Well, Whitebeard is the one with the title of "The Stongest", as far as we know, Roger has only ever had the title of Pirate King. I just think it would be cool if Roger ruled through intelligence rather than strength, and the fact that he was deathly ill could be a way for Oda to create such a story.

Whitebeard has the title of "the strongest" now and is legendary for being able to fight on equal terms with Roger. Rayleigh may confirm that Roger was not at his best during that fight (and it may be that Whitebeard realised that). It seems the treatment Roger got was enough to live a nearly normal life - at least enough that the pain didn't cripple him.

marvelB · 2008-07-02, 14:49

Seeing as Buggy had said that Roger and Whitebeard were once equal in strength, I think it's fair to say that Roger was no pushover in battle. It didn't look like Buggy was exaggerating when he told his crew that either, since he was wise enough to know how unwise it would be to attack Whitebeard's crewmen...

There's also the possibility that Roger was on par with Whitebeard before he got his disease. Notice that Rayleigh told Luffy that Crocus joined Roger for his "last" journey through the Grand Line.... which could suggest that his crew sailed through the GL a few good times before he got sick.

Sazelyt · 2008-07-02, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by james3wk

^Well, Whitebeard is the one with the title of "The Stongest", as far as we know, Roger has only ever had the title of Pirate King. I just think it would be cool if Roger ruled through intelligence rather than strength, and the fact that he was deathly ill could be a way for Oda to create such a story.

Roger has been the only with the Pirate King title. Even Whitebeard hasn't attained that title, not even when Roger was alive. I think that goes beyond the strongest man title. I think that is more like being the strongest man, and leading the strongest band. Also, Roger might be quite intelligent, unlike Luffy, but, that would only intensify his status.

james0246 · 2008-07-02, 15:20

I am not trying to start an argument

, I just think it would be more interesting if Roger turned out to be a weak person (say the level of strength of Ussop) but with such a tactical/intelligent mind that he could take down far stronger opponents who have far superior abilities. This would be a far more interesting change of pace in the One Piece universe, and it would let Oda create Roger as a character that did not need to have the abillities to destroy an island just by snapping his fingers (which many fans have soemwhat assumed Roger could do).

Again, I am not trying to argue here, I simply think this would be a "cooler" story-choice, I do not actually believe there is any real evidince to support this train of thought (and I do agree with the previous points concerning titles, etc.) besides that fact that it sounds interesting or at least different.

Master Mold · 2008-07-02, 16:08

Law getting in on Kids and Kuma's actions is great, and Yellow Monkey finally showing up is better then great, Man Yellow Monkey seems to be the most BOSSED character in One Piece. All we need is Silvers and the SH crew to do is get in on the action or get there ship coated, It was also nice to here about Rogers, but I would prefer to here more about his Feats in battles and his crew, then about him turning himself in, but its nice to finally read it, I now reckon it will finally shut up the masses about it. Stay the **** on this trend Oda, don't slow it up.

Sazelyt · 2008-07-02, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by james3wk

Again, I am not trying to argue here, I simply think this would be a "cooler" story-choice, I do not actually believe there is any real evidince to support this train of thought (and I do agree with the previous points concerning titles, etc.) besides that fact that it sounds interesting or at least different.

That might have been cool (if the conditions were to also be there) but it would not be realistic. In a shonen fighting world, a world where the strong moves ahead, without strength, intelligence wouldn't take you far ahead. I believe that is a widely accepted fact.

james0246 · 2008-07-02, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

That might have been cool (if the conditions were to also be there) but it would not be realistic. In a shonen fighting world, a world where the strong moves ahead, without strength, intelligence wouldn't take you far ahead. I believe that is a widely accepted fact.

That is what makes it such an interesting idea. It is like the thought of Shikimaru (from Naruto) as Hokage. He is a relatively weak individual that can fight the strongest opponents simply because he is an extremely intelligent individual. Not to mention there is the whole fact that Roger being a weak individual would defy all Shounen conventions, which is why I said it would be "cool"

.

ashesatdusk · 2008-07-02, 16:56

Isn't roger supposed to be a D?

Doesn't that imply he'd have some sort of physical strength, and somewhat simple minded (not necessarily stupid). But we haven't met a weak D... so far.

Quote:

So technically this was a hint, that something like "One Piece" doesn't even exist, and Roger planned his whole speech, to start the age of pirates as some sort of legacy...?

I think thats where its leading too. As soon as luffy said in the beginning his hat is his treasure. I was fairly sure One piece is any traditional concept of treatsure.

marvelB · 2008-07-02, 16:57

Ha ha, I was just checking out AP right now, and there are actually people who are considering Kizaru to be Spandine of all people (y'all didn't forget about Spandam's pappy, right?), because they both have similar striped coats. I highly doubt that a wimpy guy like him would become a badass pimp of a Marine Admiral, despite the 20-year gap between the Ohara incident and the current time.

Besides, if that really were the case, then his son would've been a Rokushiki master by now. Instead, he turned out to be a wuss with a mangled face and an elephant fetish.

2008-07-02, 07:57	Link #1
xris Just call me Ojisan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: U.K. Hampshire	One Piece - Chapter 506 [Manga] Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece. Thread Guidelines One Piece is licensed by Viz, please don't ask for or mention where to find or download the manga. Please do not discuss scanlations, translation groups, etc., etc. Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum. Discuss your expectations of the chapter if it has not been published yet. Posting a synopses or summary is fine (and welcome). Be polite to your fellow forum members. Please try to keep the discussion on topic. Spoilers will not be policed in this thread, so if you haven't read the chapter yet, just stay out if you don't want to read spoilers. Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant parts of the chapter. This includes images, scripts and direct translations of the manga. Summaries are OK, crops of pictures are OK (only if you need to illustrate your point) but this is it.

2008-07-02, 08:04	Link #2
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Quite a plot-heavy chapter, but to make a long story short: -Both Kidd and Law are ready to fight against Kuma. -Rayleigh tells the Straw-Hats about his history with Roger. It turns out that he had turned himself in to the marines. He also had an incurable disease, so he had brought along the old man Crocus (Laboon's caretaker) with him as his doctor. After becoming Pirate King, he told Rayleigh that "he wouldn't die", before his execution. He also tells Luffy and co. That Buggy and Shanks were former crewmates of Roger. -Finally, Kizaru decides to make a flashy entrance via cannonball.... Yep, definitely an awesome chapter. Though, Roger turning himself in didn't really surprise me. Heh, it's nice to see that Crocus actually WAS part of Roger's crew, after all (though it seems that he actually joined to look for Brooke's former crew). And... I dunno about anybody else, but Roger's face looks kinda wierd up close. And now we have a showdown between Kidd and Law vs. Kuma. It'll definitely be awesome to see both captains kick some ass, but I'm still not entirely certain that they'll beat Kuma, especially if Kizaru decides to back him up.... Last edited by marvelB; 2008-07-02 at 08:43.

2008-07-02, 10:32	Link #6
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I just realized something... earlier in the series Crocus actually told Luffy and co. about when he had searched for Brooke's old crew (though he obviously didn't mention Roger to them at the time). Once again, I'm impressed at how Oda turns those little details into important plot points later in the story.... And as for Kidd and Law, I do believe that they're certainly strong enough to wear down Kuma, but I just doubt that they'll actually finish him off (though it would be awesome if they actually did). Chances are, they'll come close to it, but then Kizaru will arrive and turn the tables on them. But whether that happens or not, I'm just hoping that Rayleigh will join in on the fun now that the admiral's arrived... Last edited by marvelB; 2008-07-02 at 10:48.

2008-07-02, 08:27	Link #3
gnc742 Member Join Date: Apr 2008	Well, everyone who was on good terms with Roger knew that Luffy had a resemblance to the Pirate King. I knew Shanks just didn't saved Luffy because they were friends. It is possible that that incurable disease which Roger had is somewhat the same to the illness that Dr. Hiluluk(I forgot his name) had. After they said goodbye to each other(SC and Crocus), he was talking to himself "The Pirates that gave me a very strange atmosphere, don't you think so, roger?" It was already hinted at that time that he was once a part of Roger's crew. So it's nothing much to be surprised about. Though I was happy to hear he really is. @marbelB I agree with you on Kuma vs. Law+Kid. I think that even with the two of them, they can't touch Kuma. I wanna hear Kuma saying to both of them that Luffy defeated 2 Shichibukai and how surprised they would be.

2008-07-02, 09:24	Link #4
shankss CP10 Join Date: Feb 2006	Well I diasgree about Kuma vs 2 SuperNovas.It will be a hard fight for sure but we've already seen what Kuma was capable of.It would be weird to let him slay everyone again and go away happily like the strongest character in series..And Zoro is the one that will probly take him down...Zoro may assist Kidd+Law... That disease can be the result of spirit energy..Maybe why the former D and lost history people got wiped out. And finally Crocus and Laboon...those two seriously took some important roles in storyline after all, despite their fillerish look just saw the pics, is it just me or Kizaru looks like kinda Crocodile?

2008-07-02, 09:56	Link #5
Vree Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Indeed, good chapter. But don't you think it'd be neat if Kid and Law took out a Shichibukai? Kuma has already had his fight with the Strawhats (sorta) and it still wouldn't make them better than Luffy (who took one out on his own), but it'd be a nice show that Kid and Law ARE worthy rivals to the Strawhats. And if that disappoints anyone well, there is still the fight against Kizaru to balance things out.

2008-07-02, 12:30	Link #7
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	Some guesses became realized in this chapter. Crocus being a part of Roger's crew (even if it is fr a short time), the path leading to Roger's execution having some unknown factors involved within (which resulted in the crew getting separated nicely instead of getting killed or hunted). We got also another time figure of 4-5 years. That may become important later on to address another concern or explain another event. I also don't want to presume based on the summary that One Piece doesn't exist. If Oda didn't include this part by making Luffy ask about it (which is something you expect him to do first after hearing a story like that), then there might still be some unknowns about that part. There is a one year gap between disbanding and Roger's execution. If Rayleigh stayed with Roger till his turning himself in, then there is still the possibility that they might have done something within this period to come up with that One Piece idea. Anyway, I hope the whole script comes soon. There may be some more missing details. And the fight might be getting shaped up. I wonder if Rayleigh can take on both Kizaru and Garp at the same time, if Garp also shows up, to let Luffy and his crew go. It may become a sacrifice at the end, and that would be understandable if it has any relation to his speech about Shanks's sacrifice and suggestion of a second Roger growing up. Though, I prefer him to at least escape with the Strawhats to the mermen island. And, about Kuma, if he is real, he will be facing Kidd and Law at the same time. I think that is a good way to make Kidd and Law leave the island. Their abilities of some kind of magnetism and partial replacement, Kidd and Law might be the opponents that Kuma wouldn't want to face because of their abilities.

2008-07-02, 14:04	Link #8
Undertaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: U.S.	The best part I like about Roger's flashback is that Roger's execution was suppose to be a warning to other would-be pirate, but it ends up to be inspiration for the Age of Pirates. Base on what Roger told Rayleigh he seems to have this all planned out which just add to Roger's greatness. Two things on my mind though, First, we know Roger can read Poneglyph and that he transport them to Raftel. With that being said, he should be the one that knows about the Void Century and why WG try so desporate not to let others know about it. I just can't shake the feeling that part of the reason he gave himself up and did his little show was to mess with WG and hopefully leads to an age that WG can be toppled. Second, I also can't shake the feeling that whatever plagues Roger might the the samething that plagues WB. But yeah, the way Oda kept tighting up loose hints that originally seems minor is simply incredible. While we all suspect that Roger turn himself in instead get captured we were never told why nor have much speculation on it, now Oda confirms it and give a really compelling and believable reason simply amazes me. By far the best storyteller in Shonen genre.

2008-07-02, 14:09	Link #9
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	Does anyone else think that it is possible that it was not Gol D. Roger that was suprememly powerful, but rather the fact that he commanded a crew of powerful people that made Roger so famouse? Specifically, due to his revealed illness, is it possible that Roger was not the one fighting in battles, rather he assembled a crew of powerful pirates to fight for him while he navigated through the Grand Line. I kind of like this idea, that the Pirate King is known for his leadership skills instead of his abilities or powers. But, I doubt it is true.

2008-07-02, 14:23	Link #10
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	In all the crews we had seen, the leader is the most powerful. So, Roger not being extremely powerful would not fit with the story flow, even if he was ill. Considering how strong the current dino-old Rayleigh is being considered, Roger being stronger than him at his normal peak age, regardless of his illness (see the Whitebeard example), would make him extremely powerful. Also, if he weren't strong enough to command and lead his crew, then he wouldn't have continued to stay as the leader. So, I believe, he was still extremely strong the day he disbanded his crew. I don't know what happened afterwards, butthe day he was walking to his death, he didn't really look that bad. Even the current Whitebeard looks worse than how Roger was just before his death. But, one thing is for sure. Regardless of his own strength, his name wouldn't reach afar as the strongest if he hadn't commanded a very strong (or maybe the strongest) crew.

2008-07-02, 14:31	Link #11
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^Well, Whitebeard is the one with the title of "The Stongest", as far as we know, Roger has only ever had the title of Pirate King. I just think it would be cool if Roger ruled through intelligence rather than strength, and the fact that he was deathly ill could be a way for Oda to create such a story.

2008-07-02, 14:49	Link #13
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Seeing as Buggy had said that Roger and Whitebeard were once equal in strength, I think it's fair to say that Roger was no pushover in battle. It didn't look like Buggy was exaggerating when he told his crew that either, since he was wise enough to know how unwise it would be to attack Whitebeard's crewmen... There's also the possibility that Roger was on par with Whitebeard before he got his disease. Notice that Rayleigh told Luffy that Crocus joined Roger for his "last" journey through the Grand Line.... which could suggest that his crew sailed through the GL a few good times before he got sick.

2008-07-02, 15:20	Link #15
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	I am not trying to start an argument , I just think it would be more interesting if Roger turned out to be a weak person (say the level of strength of Ussop) but with such a tactical/intelligent mind that he could take down far stronger opponents who have far superior abilities. This would be a far more interesting change of pace in the One Piece universe, and it would let Oda create Roger as a character that did not need to have the abillities to destroy an island just by snapping his fingers (which many fans have soemwhat assumed Roger could do). Again, I am not trying to argue here, I simply think this would be a "cooler" story-choice, I do not actually believe there is any real evidince to support this train of thought (and I do agree with the previous points concerning titles, etc.) besides that fact that it sounds interesting or at least different.

2008-07-02, 16:08	Link #16
Master Mold Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: LA CA	Law getting in on Kids and Kuma's actions is great, and Yellow Monkey finally showing up is better then great, Man Yellow Monkey seems to be the most BOSSED character in One Piece. All we need is Silvers and the SH crew to do is get in on the action or get there ship coated, It was also nice to here about Rogers, but I would prefer to here more about his Feats in battles and his crew, then about him turning himself in, but its nice to finally read it, I now reckon it will finally shut up the masses about it. Stay the **** on this trend Oda, don't slow it up.

2008-07-02, 16:57	Link #20
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Ha ha, I was just checking out AP right now, and there are actually people who are considering Kizaru to be Spandine of all people (y'all didn't forget about Spandam's pappy, right?), because they both have similar striped coats. I highly doubt that a wimpy guy like him would become a badass pimp of a Marine Admiral, despite the 20-year gap between the Ohara incident and the current time. Besides, if that really were the case, then his son would've been a Rokushiki master by now. Instead, he turned out to be a wuss with a mangled face and an elephant fetish.