[Manga] Chapter 359 Discussion

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

All the previous genjutsu he's cast has required eye contact: his fight with kakashi in his first appearnce, and when he was using Sauske as a puching bag in the hallway.

Why would he use a finger when Kakashi was looking at his eyes? That's a waste of time. Just because he used a finger at a certain point in time doesn't mean he couldn't use his finger before that.

[Kowai]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

An opponent does not have to make eye contact what so ever and the fact that now all he has to do is point at you to kill you shows significant improvement in skill.

im pretty sure that the genjutsu itachi casts with his finger is different than with his MS... therefore i dont think he can kill you just by pointing his finger. he can kill you by looking into his eyes though xD

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

@hunter
I don't see why you're so impressed with itachi's genjutsu in the latest chapter. What he did was a nice genjutsu, but how is it indicative of being a highly skilled genjutsu? I think if you really stop to think about it and compare it to other genjutsu we've seen, you too will conclude that while being a nice jutsu. We also are unaware as to how much was genjutsu and how much was reality. For example, did Itachi simulate the feel of the ground, the air, the explosions, sasori and kisame, etc during the genjutsu/battle with deidara? Probably not. So why is it so impressive?

I already explained why it is impressive and I made no mention of powerful or high level Genjutsu or anything of the sort. For all I know it's less difficult even but it's not my point at all. My point was about lethality and my argument was very simple : it's a Genjutsu casting an illusion that seems like reality and make its victim attack himself, period.

Transforming your opponent in burning paper or physically paralyzing him or melting his skin, etc. These Genjutsu are very dangerous but you know what is happening and you can try to do something about it.
This Genjutsu however made any power, any abilities completely vain because the victim doesn't even realize there is something wrong before trying to kill himself with his very own jutsu.
The couple of examples you presented are not even remotely close to that, they merely disoriented their targets.


Beside and for the sake of the discussion this Genjutsu was powerful enough to control much more than sight. It fully took control of Deidara's senses without his awardness. Deidara wasn't simply seeing an illusion, he also didn't feel his bomb crawling on his skin, bomb he believed he was directing underground toward where he thought was standing whereas he was moving his bomb on himself. He also didn't seem to feel the sun on his face before the Genjutsu went off.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

Even avoiding eyesight is useless against him since now all he has to do is point at an opponent to cats a genjutsu.

That was never a solution to a GENJUTSU. Only the Sharingan.

Kabuto cast a genjutsu on an entire arena of people ... no eye contact needed.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Jaiven

or he became weaker. his eyes get worse every time he uses the ms, and who knows how many times hes used it.

Really a very moot point given two reasons:

A) Itachi was around 11 years old while doing this fight against Deidara, meaning he hadn’t even reached his peak by that time, combine this with been one of the greatest genius, his growth is going to be upwards. You have seen how much growth Sasuke can have in just 15 days. I.e. Chidory, Lighting Elemental manipulation and Lee Speed. Imagine Itachis growth in 10 Years.


B) Exactly, we don’t know how many times Itachi has used the MS, it could just be 5 times in his entire life, including the ones he did against Kakashi and Sasuke, after all, we are seen Itachi defeating Orochimaru and Deidara without using the MS, so it seems the use of MS is not something that he depends so much on.

And I really doubt that Kishi is going to use Itachi supposed lost of Eyesight as a handicap for his fight., we really haven’t seen Itachi having problems with it. This couple by the fact that Oro still said Itachi was stronger than him can only equate to or Itachi been as strong as he was before, or stronger, but certainly not weaker.

[MobiuS]

Besides, genjutsus can be cast without sight or a need to point. Only sharingan genjutsus he needs eye contact to pull off.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Really a very moot point given two reasons:

A) Itachi was around 11 years old while doing this fight against Deidara, meaning he hadn’t even reached his peak by that time, combine this with been one of the greatest genius, his growth is going to be upwards.

Not neccessarily, we know it was after Oro left but they might not have found a suitable ninja immediately.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Not neccessarily, we know it was after Oro left but they might not have found a suitable ninja immediately.

I was debating the same exact thing trough MSN with someone, I was defending that stance you posted now, but the other person talked about how it seems Deidara knows Orochimaru…but either way, you are right…..I should had posted Oro there…-____-|||

[MobiuS]

Everyone knows Oro. Hes like the Justin Timberlake of villains. If you dont know him, you dont know Naruto villains. Hes a wanted Ninja EVERYWHERE. Unlike a lot of the other Akatsukis.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Rurik

And I really doubt that Kishi is going to use Itachi supposed lost of Eyesight as a handicap for his fight., we really haven’t seen Itachi having problems with it. This couple by the fact that Oro still said Itachi was stronger than him can only equate to or Itachi been as strong as he was before, or stronger, but certainly not weaker.

It was odd though, that Itachi did not have his Sharingan activated at the beginning of his fight with Deidara whereas currently his Sharingan is always on even in non-combat situations. Maybe Itachi not having Sharingan activated immediately was to make him showing it to Deidara more dramatic, but it might also be a hint that Itachi has grown reliant on the Sharingan for eyesight since then.

[MobiuS]

Or even better reasoning ...

he's learnt not to take chances.

[Roronoa_Zoro]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Not neccessarily, we know it was after Oro left but they might not have found a suitable ninja immediately.

how do we know that?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Or even better reasoning ...

he's learnt not to take chances.

Not taking chances like taking time to beat the crap out of Sasuke and using MS on him again even though a ready to fight Jiraiya is 10ft is right behind him? Yeah. Not even Sasuke keeps Sharingan activated all the time. Even if he's extremely careful, I can see no practical reason for Itachi to have Sharingan activated as much as he does.

Originally Posted by Roronoa_Zoro

how do we know that?

Because Sasori mentions Deidara becoming his partner and we know Oro was his partner before that.

[rman0099]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Not taking chances like taking time to beat the crap out of Sasuke and using MS on him again even though a ready to fight Jiraiya is 10ft is right behind him? Yeah. Not even Sasuke keeps Sharingan activated all the time. Even if he's extremely careful, I can see no practical reason for Itachi to have Sharingan activated as much as he does.

Maybe the use of MS has degraded his eyesight to the point where he has to rely on the sharingan to see. He may use it to see like predator uses infrared. Seeing chakra flow may be the only way for him to manuever clearly anymore. But then why doesn't he just invest in some nice emo glasses? (holds up flame shield b/c of bad joke) Kishi has shown glasses in the series so if that's the reason then Itachi just wants to look cool.

[Suna no tate]

Itachi was around 11 years old while doing this fight against Deidara

Wow. Pretty mature looking 11 year old. None of the konoha genin at that age looked anywhere as mature. I think you're a little off on this one especially seeing that at age 13 he was an anbu captain right? I'd put his age closer to 16 or 17 based on a lot of factors and other known ages.

Deidara does seem to know orochimaru and hate of him surpasses most of the akatsuki. After all, its deidara who's trying to kill sasuke right now, simply because sasuke robbed him of his chance at revenge. Whether or not deidara met oro before akatsuki is in the air, but probably so seeing as deidara possesses a rare bloodline technique. If his clan is extinct, I could definitely see orochimaru having something to do with it...

[Sarugaki]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I agree with Hunter on this one, this is the first time a Genjutsu was made were the Victim never realize he is in a Genjutsu.

I don't remember very well but I think this is exactly what happened with Kakashi and Zabuza, didn't he realize later, after being saved by Haku ?

[ChojinLocke]

Maybe Deidara is just too bad at genjutsu and avoiding/identifying them so much that we get shown this weakness in a flashback so that Sasuke exploits it. Just a thought.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by rman0099

Maybe the use of MS has degraded his eyesight to the point where he has to rely on the sharingan to see. He may use it to see like predator uses infrared. Seeing chakra flow may be the only way for him to manuever clearly anymore. But then why doesn't he just invest in some nice emo glasses? (holds up flame shield b/c of bad joke) Kishi has shown glasses in the series so if that's the reason then Itachi just wants to look cool.

Oh, man. Itachi's emo enough as it is.

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Wow. Pretty mature looking 11 year old. None of the konoha genin at that age looked anywhere as mature. I think you're a little off on this one especially seeing that at age 13 he was an anbu captain right? I'd put his age closer to 16 or 17 based on a lot of factors and other known ages.

Rurik's done the math on this one. There was big debate over the timeline and it was basically proven that Itachi should've been about 11 when he faced Oro. I don't know what age he was when he fought Dei. But I agree that Itachi is a character that doesn't seem to age much. He looks nearly the same in the flashbacks as he currently does now.

Originally Posted by sharingard

I don't remember very well but I think this is exactly what happened with Kakashi and Zabuza, didn't he realize later, after being saved by Haku ?

Zabuza knew he was being tricked by Kakashi, he was just helpless to do anything about it. Later on, he figured out a defense for it.

[That Other Ninja]

Deidara should make Michelangelo's David and have him molest Sasuke with wrestling moves. KAATSU!

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Not taking chances like taking time to beat the crap out of Sasuke and using MS on him again even though a ready to fight Jiraiya is 10ft is right behind him? Yeah. Not even Sasuke keeps Sharingan activated all the time. Even if he's extremely careful, I can see no practical reason for Itachi to have Sharingan activated as much as he does.

Wanted criminal. Anbu hunting him like they did Haku and Zabuza. I think he knows enough never to let his guard down.