Myself; Yourself - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[grey_moon]

I like how we can't hear his mum, it adds realism, as how absolutely annoying is it on the train when you can only hear one side of the conversation. I always say to my missus I wouldn't mind so much if I could hear the whole conversation

Although if we can't hear his mum it breaks the consistency of the show as we were able to hear the phone at Hinako's house.

[Saleh]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I wasn't thinking of anyone deliberately trying to take over Sana's role in Nanaka's heart, just the natural effect of being there for someone.

Getting involved emotionally or romantically is also one of the natural effects of being there for someone in the darkest hours even though most of the times its unintentional and one sided. Chances are that Hinako will also fall for Sana.

Originally Posted by grey_moon

To be fair on the friends, Nanaka's uncle doesn't seem to have been able to get close to her either.

Her uncle ... .I guess I will wait for next episode before saying anything other than he was a poor guardian for a traumatized child.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Hmm...

Her eyes and gritted teeth say:

"My leg REALLY hurts!!" and "My house burned down!!" and "My parents!!!!!!".

I assume most people who are suffering from all three would have a common reaction, despite personalities.

They sure do. (Not really, traumatized children (or anyone) take time to recover from intial shock so most of them don't start whining immediately even if they are experiencing intense pain.)

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

Does Sana really talk to his mom on the phone? Have we ever heard her voice? Just food for thought.

now now...dont go putting false images of sana being truely insane into people's heads

empty phone calls are about as scary as that girl with the cleaver

Originally Posted by Saleh

Getting involved emotionally or romantically is also one of the natural effects of being there for someone in the darkest hours even though most of the times its unintentional and one sided. Chances are that Hinako will also fall for Sana.

too late i would say...she can be in denial about her feelings but from that point she used him as a pushie...

[4ran]

This episode is the strongest episode till I guess till Sana’s story comes out..
Nanaka’s story was worse then what I thought … I mean getting suspected that you’ve killed your parents! it is the worse ever! no confusion for why she turn to the person she is now..

Seeing all the mails from Nanak in the red mail box made release or at less imagine the pain and the misery she was in... the latter in red saying “HELP” was really enough to explain her behavior… However, I can find an excuse for Sana since he wasn’t there to help her, but the guys ( shuu+Shuri+Aoi) I find nothing to cover their failness as good friends.. I mean even if you cannot help by changing the facts but at less you can give a shoulder to cry on … they could just be with her even if she refused the help or even if she gets away, friends should be there for each other…

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

too late i would say...she can be in denial about her feelings but from that point she used him as a pushie...

I lol'd in real life

But I wonder about the denial, she did kiss him (On the cheek >.>) willingly after all

Unless she spends this two episodes trying to make up some excuse

[Saleh]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

too late i would say...she can be in denial about her feelings but from that point she used him as a pushie...

Yeti-kun

Yet I think that Syuu still has small chance left.

Originally Posted by 4ran

This episode is the strongest episode till I guess till Sana’s story comes out..
Nanaka’s story was worse then what I thought … I mean getting suspected that you’ve killed your parents! it is the worse ever! no confusion for why she turn to the person she is now..

Seeing all the mails from Nanak in the red mail box made release or at less imagine the pain and the misery she was in... the latter in red saying “HELP” was really enough to explain her behavior… However, I can find an excuse for Sana since he wasn’t there to help her, but the guys ( shuu+Shuri+Aoi) I find nothing to cover their failness as good friends.. I mean even if you cannot help by changing the facts but at less you can give a shoulder to cry on … they could just be with her even if she refused the help or even if she gets away, friends should be there for each other…

*cough* Before we start blaming his friends again -

Don't know if someone pointed this out already but Sana also isn't in a very favourable position to contradict his friends actions (atleast partially).

Episode 8 - 14:40
Sana : Why ...?
Sana : Why didn't you tell me that?!
Syuu : Is there anything you could do even if I told you?!
*Sana's mind becomes clouded with doubts*
Syuu : I... I couldn't do a thing!
Syuu : I didn't do a thing for her!

Its possible that Sana would have done almost the same thing in their shoes since he doubted himself. Only thing that is actually in his favor would be the choises he made. If Yuzuki sensei wasn't there to help him in his dilemma then what are the odds that he would have faced Nanaka like he did in episode 8?

*hides from stones, bricks thrown at ...*

[Grimkill7]

I'm starting to wonder more and more about Sana's secret past. If it's as tragic as Nanaka's, does that make him a hypocrite for getting mad at Shuu? Nobody told him about Nanaka, but he clearly has some demons of his own that he doesn't want to let loose.

[LKK]

In defense of the twins and Aoi who have been charged with being failures at being supportive during Nanaka's emotional downfall, I feel compelled to remind everyone that the twins were around 11 years old and Aoi was around 12 at the time of the fire. How many 11 and 12 year olds have the emotional maturity to even understand another person's psychological problems let alone have the knowledge to know how to deal with it? I don't think it's fair to fault the children for not handling Nanaka's trauma well. Also, don't forget that the twins were going through their own emotional traumas during this time. I don't know how old the twins were when their mother died and their father remarried, but clearly their family situation has been very unsettled as well.

[grey_moon]

Age doesn't really have much to do with being there for someone as a friend. Parents are generally over 18 and there are lots of examples where they are not there for their children and they of all the people should be a friend to their children.

Being a good friend is just that. Friendship transcends age, race, religion and all that what not. Actually I get better support of my friends who aren't NLPists or trained psychologists in lots of cases. I'm pretty sure that Nanaka wanted someone there for her more then someone to analyse her.

Good point about them having their own problems to deal with; lots of people do put themselves first, but others will put their friends before themselves. I know this from first hand experience. When my dad passed away one of my friends was there for me and I only found out a little while later that his dad passed away a week before mine.

[frustra]

fine week for drama in anime.

ef 7, Clannad 8, and this one. Lucky. ^_^

[UPR]

Originally Posted by LKK

In defense of the twins and Aoi who have been charged with being failures at being supportive during Nanaka's emotional downfall, I feel compelled to remind everyone that the twins were around 11 years old and Aoi was around 12 at the time of the fire. How many 11 and 12 year olds have the emotional maturity to even understand another person's psychological problems let alone have the knowledge to know how to deal with it? I don't think it's fair to fault the children for not handling Nanaka's trauma well. Also, don't forget that the twins were going through their own emotional traumas during this time. I don't know how old the twins were when their mother died and their father remarried, but clearly their family situation has been very unsettled as well.

I can certainly understand this. But, the point many are referring to is why they did not tell Sana especially when he came back. Okay I can undertsand not telling him right away, but he asked what was wrong and he kept saying things that remined her of the tragedy (him askinh her to play the violin), then a good friend would have told him what happend. Just so things like that would not have kept happening. What would have happend if Sana was not forceful with Shuu in telling him what happend. Maybe he would get mad at Nanaka for being the way she is and that could have caused even more mental damage towards her. It's one thing to think you where left alone and forgotten but it's much worse to think your hated byt the person you most care about.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Age doesn't really have much to do with being there for someone as a friend. Parents are generally over 18 and there are lots of examples where they are not there for their children and they of all the people should be a friend to their children.

Being a good friend is just that. Friendship transcends age, race, religion and all that what not. Actually I get better support of my friends who aren't NLPists or trained psychologists in lots of cases. I'm pretty sure that Nanaka wanted someone there for her more then someone to analyse her.

Good point about them having their own problems to deal with; lots of people do put themselves first, but others will put their friends before themselves. I know this from first hand experience. When my dad passed away one of my friends was there for me and I only found out a little while later that his dad passed away a week before mine.

The thing is though, your friend was in a simular situation, so that friend knew how you felt and how to be there for you and give support.

Unlike Nanaka's friends, the twins had their mother die I'm guessing by natural causes, (can anybody confirm?) but who can really understand what it's like to go through a tragedy like Nanaka's? So how can one give support if one doesn't know how? Sure you can try, but what if it gets worse? Isn't it natural to give that person some space to calm down? But apparently Nanaka is not over it.

I'm assuming her friends noticed that so still kept their distance. But... who really knows? It was never mentioned as far as i remember.

[Shin_Battousai]

Originally Posted by CrisisDarkerXIV

The theories about Sana attempting suicide is probably half-dead.

Spoiler for scene:

The scene when the watch shows after Nanaka saying something about Sana forgetting her having "fun with his new friends" should tell that the watch was just a present.

Too bad, I, at least, wanted some drama, but I guess I had my fill.

Don't know about that. It could be that he got bullied in school or something and committed suicide which may explain why his mum keeps about asking how he's doing at school. He kinda had an expression of fear when she said it too ie. maybe he didn't get to have fun with his friends but the opposite ie. got mistreated. He also said he'd become strong which suggests that he may have been weak in some sense in the past eg. too weak to do something about being bullied, chose the easy way out so to speak. Sounds kinda logical (at least to me) ie. moved to new area, new school, wasn't able to settle in and got bullied. That's my current theory anyway :P

[Grimkill7]

If Sana did try to commit suicide, I hope it was for a really good reason. I will be highly disappointed if it was because he couldn't "fit in". Nanaka goes through all this suffering and Sana slits his wrists for a lame reason like that. It would be a good way to take a decent male lead (we ALL know how bountiful those are in this genre) and dash his character to itty-bitty pieces. No, I expect that something really f**ked up happened to Sana. If it was something pitiful like that, Nanaka's past would have been shown last. Since they seem to be saving Sana's past for near the end, it should be something atleast mildly tragic.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Snuffle

The thing is though, your friend was in a simular situation, so that friend knew how you felt and how to be there for you and give support.

Unlike Nanaka's friends, the twins had their mother die I'm guessing by natural causes, (can anybody confirm?) but who can really understand what it's like to go through a tragedy like Nanaka's? So how can one give support if one doesn't know how? Sure you can try, but what if it gets worse? Isn't it natural to give that person some space to calm down? But apparently Nanaka is not over it.

I'm assuming her friends noticed that so still kept their distance. But... who really knows? It was never mentioned as far as i remember.

Hard to say really, when I asked him why he didn't tell me earlier, he just went that I seemed to be dealing with mine not so well because of circumstances.

But also from what you say earlier is that can be taken as mutual support. When one party is feeling grief another joins them so they can suffer and support each other in a group.

All I know is Nanaka wanted someone (well Sana) to be there for her and nothing has been shown that anyone in the town at the time was able to meet that need, be it calling Sana or being there themselves.

[tun]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Age doesn't really have much to do with being there for someone as a friend. Parents are generally over 18 and there are lots of examples where they are not there for their children and they of all the people should be a friend to their children.

Being a good friend is just that. Friendship transcends age, race, religion and all that what not. Actually I get better support of my friends who aren't NLPists or trained psychologists in lots of cases. I'm pretty sure that Nanaka wanted someone there for her more then someone to analyse her.

Good point about them having their own problems to deal with; lots of people do put themselves first, but others will put their friends before themselves. I know this from first hand experience. When my dad passed away one of my friends was there for me and I only found out a little while later that his dad passed away a week before mine.

I find it very hard to believe that the average 11 or 12 year old would know how to "be there" for a friend in that kind of situation. It's easy to say that idealistic stuff as an adult, but in reality, those kinds of expectations are unrealistic. Hell, if you've been around 11 or 12 year olds in this day and age, I really don't see how you can believe that.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by tun

I find it very hard to believe that the average 11 or 12 year old would know how to "be there" for a friend in that kind of situation. It's easy to say that idealistic stuff as an adult, but in reality, those kinds of expectations are unrealistic. Hell, if you've been around 11 or 12 year olds in this day and age, I really don't see how you can believe that.

That is because you are over analysing it. Being there for someone doesn't need to mean you have to understand them and have a phd in trauma therapy. Try to imagine back to when you were that age and something bad happened to you and you wanted someone there for you. Was you expecting them to solve it magically for you? Maybe you were or maybe you just wanted someone to be there. Now try thinking back to a situation when your friend was in trouble, hurt or something like that. Was you there thinking oh my god I can't help until I've gotten my degree in abnormal psychology, instead wouldn't the reaction be far less cluttered with adult thoughts and the wish would be I hope I can do something to help my friend out.

Personally for myself, one of my earliest memories was of my mum needing to go to hospital to give birth to my little sister. I don't remember much else but the over powering wish to be there with her. I'm pretty sure I didn't think that I was going to be able to help her give birth or anything like that. You see someone who you care about in pain or alone, isn't the natural response as a human being the wish to be there for them?

[tun]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

That is because you are over analysing it. Being there for someone doesn't need to mean you have to understand them and have a phd in trauma therapy. Try to imagine back to when you were that age and something bad happened to you and you wanted someone there for you. Was you expecting them to solve it magically for you? Maybe you were or maybe you just wanted someone to be there. Now try thinking back to a situation when your friend was in trouble, hurt or something like that. Was you there thinking oh my god I can't help until I've gotten my degree in abnormal psychology, instead wouldn't the reaction be far less cluttered with adult thoughts and the wish would be I hope I can do something to help my friend out.

Personally for myself, one of my earliest memories was of my mum needing to go to hospital to give birth to my little sister. I don't remember much else but the over powering wish to be there with her. I'm pretty sure I didn't think that I was going to be able to help her give birth or anything like that. You see someone who you care about in pain or alone, isn't the natural response as a human being the wish to be there for them?

Well I can sorta speak from personal experience since I lost my mom at age 15. Albeit a little older than the 11-12 year old range that we're talking about, but the biggest thing for me was probably to fill the void left by her death. While I appreciated the friends who stood by me and helped me get through that time, they still couldn't help me with the real problem. That's something the person himself has to solve on his own.

And if what you say is true, why do Shuu, Shuri, and Aoi feel like they couldn't be there for her? The whole reason this issue was brought up was to apply it to the situation in the anime. LKK covered it pretty well IMO. They're not old enough to handle this kind of stuff. The twins also had their own stuff to deal with.

[Saleh]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Age doesn't really have much to do with being there for someone as a friend. Parents are generally over 18 and there are lots of examples where they are not there for their children and they of all the people should be a friend to their children.

Being a good friend is just that. Friendship transcends age, race, religion and all that what not. Actually I get better support of my friends who aren't NLPists or trained psychologists in lots of cases. I'm pretty sure that Nanaka wanted someone there for her more then someone to analyse her.

Good point about them having their own problems to deal with; lots of people do put themselves first, but others will put their friends before themselves. I know this from first hand experience. When my dad passed away one of my friends was there for me and I only found out a little while later that his dad passed away a week before mine.

Earlier we were only being critics . All I will say is that experience is the only true boundry that one can almost never transcend. Our personality, uncertainies, doubts, actions, motives, ... are shaped by our experience.

Overlooking all the complexities in human nature (such as their underlying motives) I firmly believe that Nanaka's friends were there for her (or atleast tried to be there for her) but all they could was watch her in anguish. It must have been hard on them to not be able to help a friend whom they thought they knew yet one experience changed her drastically. She was no more the person they knew before that incident. She was a stranger whom they didn't knew how to interact anymore. Their words, actions, heartfelt feelings ... suddenly stopped reaching her.

They must have been really scared at such tender age not knowing what to do (especially Syuu). Asking them to go and forcefully hug her and say something very mature while she struggles in their frail arms and finally breakdowns into tears is asking a bit too much, isnt it? (classical method) I am sure that they have many commendable qualities that we seek in a true friends (I maybe in denial?).

[CrisisDarkerXIV]

Does anyone sense that Sana being totally being cut off from his friends is weird?
I mean, maybe a letter or some chats on phones would suffice.
When he came back, it seemed like he came back from exile or something.