[Manga] Chapter 381 Discussion

[deiinokunoichiXD]

I cant wait till the next chapter. just like I couldn't wait for the next episode of naruto shippuden so out of my thirst for more naruto I read all the manga chapters up intil now. And now all I can do is wait and supply my thirst with other anime and manga.

[tramadrama]

If Jiraiya dies here, I would have to question this move. We've seen brats survive a lot more. Then again, the older generation such as Asuma died from a crucial stab wound as well.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

This chapter was maximum yawnage and the cliff-hanger was pretty cool and interesting too, because it really matters which of the little boys Pein really is.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by malvado

Lets not forget Pain is one of his students and that Nagato is dead. His body was stolen.

No, that's Yahiko you're talking about. Nagato is the one with the Rinnegan and that's why Jiraiya initially thought Pain was Nagato. Then, Jiraiya saw Yahiko's face in one of the Pains and started thinking that Yahiko was Pain. The fact that there were 6 Pains confused him because he assumed one of them was the real Pain. But, after he recognized all of their faces as ninja he had met before, he probably came to the conclusion that none of them were the real Pain and that they were just bodies possessed by Pain.

If you go back and look at Chapter 374, Pain responds to the name Nagato, but always refers to Yahiko as someone that has died or someone that he once knew. So, Pain is most likely Nagato. I don't think that this is a big revelation per se, but I do think it will lead to a revelation about what's going with the 6 bodies which all have the Rinnegan.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

What really bugs me is there is a pic in the top left corner that leaves me going wtf?!

If it's still really bugging go to chapter 378 page 14.

[abazou]

well after the time skip it seems that the old generation is going down while the new generation is taking their place

orochimaru / asuma / and now jiraya

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by Rahan

How unexciting it would be !
During the whole fight, Jiraiya hesitated if it was Nagato or not. Alexis from MH stated it better than I could, so I'll just quote his post :


"So you're Pain, eh Nagato?"
"Wait a minute... the one I fought first... he's nothing like the kid I trained."
"Who are you? Yahiko... Nagato...?"
"I guess maybe this one is the real Nagato after all?"
"I remember now. He isn't Nagato. He can't be"
"That's it, Pain. I know your identity now. It is..."

Nagato? AGAIN? Is that going to be the exciting revalation? When he just a moment ago said it wasn't Nagato?
In fact, he has ping-ponged back and forth between "Nagato" and "not Nagato" four times now. I don't think a fifth time would be particularly more exciting.

Remember that he realised the answer to who Pain is only after recognising those other shinobi. Meaning he most likely understands who or what is controling those bodies. A conclusion he couldn't reach when he mearly thought Pain was Nagato.
That's why I don't think the key to this is Nagato. I think it's the material composing their piercings. I think that's the key, and Jiraya might have remembered someone who once used something like that.

Remember that Pain can project not only the Rinnegan, but also the Sharingan. He did this for Itachi and Kisame when they fought Team Kakashia nd Team Gai. So it's not a trait unique to the Rinnegan.

Pein clearly isn't Nagato or Yahiko.

I'm inclined to tihnk this way, but the whereabouts and fate of nagato are central to all this seeing as he indeed had the rinnegan. Like I said, its possible the mastermind isn't nagato, but someone entirely new who we have yet to meet, yet the revelation concerning him will revolve around nagato and yahiko and konan and their real identities because

1) they all are from this village
2) somehow the ttrio has all survived
3) konan has a strange relationship with pain despite knowing the yahiko body isn't pain
4) jiraiya was called sensei ( ibelieve 2x acually by 20 different bodies)

Again I'm quite sue that body cloning tehnique is at play here because pain doesn't seem to care about losing bodies (he kind of just likes to charge in) and its probably jiraiya's insight into whats going on. But again, pain is nagato, or rather the rinnegan and the abilities are coming from nagato not from the individual nins. The fuuma nin who died probably wasn't a summoning master because had jiraiya met a summoning master before I'm sure he wouldn't have forgotten him. You can forget a face; you can't forget such a crazy set of jutsus.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Konan and Pain are together and Pain explains to Konan that he has no feelings for Jiraiya so he will kill him. And that's all before the battle. There's no way that Pain is not derived from Pain and/or Nagato. The only question is how. And the rinnegan seems to be simply randomly emerged from nowhere just like other non-bloodline traits, like the 1st hokage's abilites. So i guess it won't be explained how Nagato got that eye, he was just randomly born with it. I guess Pain himself was not born like all humans, he has evolved from various ninja but the dominant ones in his personality are Yahiko and Nagato. Seeing how close is Jiraiya to death i don't think that some unknown or unrelated ninja will be nominated as the one who evolved to be Pain.

It's still a question if the summoned bodies are those 5 from the chamber. If i remember correctly Pain didn't know that it will be Jiraiya who he encounters, so why would he chose ninja from Jiraiya's past. Except for Yahiko, but that's the body Pain prefers, i guess it's because the emotional connection to that body that he choses it insted of the other 5. So it's highly unlikely that Pain is limited to those 5 ninja, i think that he can choose the other 5 ninja to fit the enemy. There's zero chance that Pain accidentally chose the 5 bodies who Jiraiya encountered during his travels. The only certain things seems to be the limit of 6 bodies he can control at once.

[malvado]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

No, that's Yahiko you're talking about. Nagato is the one with the Rinnegan and that's why Jiraiya initially thought Pain was Nagato. Then, Jiraiya saw Yahiko's face in one of the Pains and started thinking that Yahiko was Pain. The fact that there were 6 Pains confused him because he assumed one of them was the real Pain. But, after he recognized all of their faces as ninja he had met before, he probably came to the conclusion that none of them were the real Pain and that they were just bodies possessed by Pain.

If you go back and look at Chapter 374, Pain responds to the name Nagato, but always refers to Yahiko as someone that has died or someone that he once knew. So, Pain is most likely Nagato. I don't think that this is a big revelation per se, but I do think it will lead to a revelation about what's going with the 6 bodies which all have the Rinnegan.

F this....the chapter was clear. We are all pulling our own conclusions. Jiraiya clearly belives Nagato is dead but that Pain is another one of his students.

[Blizzer]

Pain's secret identity is Santa Claus.

[carb]

i don't know how j-man came up with an answer as i cannot link anything to arrive who the hell is Pein really is. so im just gonna lay some facts here and hopefuly some1 will decipher this cliff-hanger of a riddle.

Tobi said, "Pein has never lost a battle".

Nagato was shown to be the one possessing the rinnegan

Even Konan didn't address Pein as Nagato even though she is probably the closest to him right now.

"Pein" referes to Jiraiya as his sensei and feels hatred for J-man. -obviously something bad happened to have such hatred and a former student of jiraiya.

As for the 6 bodies that J-man has met, I am assuming that J-man fought deidara pein before he met nagato. since the prophecy by the great sage was for the future.

one of the bodies is yahiko's. but yahiko's personality seems nowhere to be found.

nagato mastered all the jutsu's and even possessing multiple elements that no1 could possibly have.

the 6 bodies can only do 1 ability each.

all seems to share the same eyes.

we have heard pein say before, "I brought out this body to hunt an intruder".

the consciousness is still unsure of, since only 2 peins seems to be doing the talking all of the time.

[Naruto_spartan]

Two things bug me.
1) Jiraiya might or might not have died, although I think that he has chances to survive(kage bunshin, or replacement jutsu)
2) Could the Toad Sage possibly be speaking about a different book then the ones we know Jiraiya has written? I mean what kind of person tells you to go see the world view all creation and write a book? And the answer is to go travel the world, see naked women and write erotic novels?

[mayhem]

Pein ends up being hanzou haha not, but i could see it being someone from long ago using his ringggan to take bodies from now...to be honest im still confused and they haven't even explained much about the ringgans abilites over the past 10 chapters.

[Sazelyt]

Another thing I wonder is whether Jiraiya trained Nagato and the others before or after he heard the prophecy. (I guess I missed that part) If it happened after the prophecy, then it seems Jiraiya fought that Fuuma opponent before he met Nagato. Can it be possible that Nagato was able to discover that from his memory?

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Like I said, its possible the mastermind isn't nagato, but someone entirely new who we have yet to meet...

Regardless of who the mastermind is, Nagato is the missing piece for that. His body was not among the ones we saw. And, that confused Jiraiya as well. There is Yahiko and others he fought before, but no Nagato. But, his ability is there, his special eye, and maybe his elemental powers as well (too bad we won't be shown any of that yet). It is always possible for someone like Orochimaru gaining body of Nagato and combining his abilities with his own abilities creating the version of Pein we have seen. But, then who can achieve something like that?

The fuuma nin who died probably wasn't a summoning master because had jiraiya met a summoning master before I'm sure he wouldn't have forgotten him. You can forget a face; you can't forget such a crazy set of jutsus.

That was a long time ago. Jiraiya also didn't seem to be a summoning master as well at that time. It is always possible for him to have such abilities before being controlled, though at low level. With the help of Nagato's powers, he may able to overcome the barrier in front of him and achieve the maximum possible level with that jutsu.

[ChojinLocke]

The prophecy was before he met the trio right? That is what I found confusing... the body that is dead before him now and taken from ma frog to the village ...

I mean i thought that since rinnegan is the defining characteristic of all the bodies of pain that Nagato's body must be the first one in the equation.. but how is that possible if he already encountered that Fuuma clan guy way before ? I mean Nagato would have no way of knowing that he encountered that ninja .. unless it is someone who was following Jiraya ever since he was given the prophecy? But that doesnt make sense either.. a frog? nah cant be... So unless the equation starts with Jiraya himself (some kind of weird twist that was mentioned before about him giving existence to Pain) it either starts with that guy who was killed or someone else who was following him ?! still confused .. anyways

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Another thing I wonder is whether Jiraiya trained Nagato and the others before or after he heard the prophecy. .

I think it was after the prophecy because Jiraya said something like 'I believed in you' (he might have said more but i didnt check) right before thinking he killed Pain's 3 bodies in the previous chapter (380).

[holypanl]

Listen to the real deal:

Itachi will own Sasuke or Sasuke will barely kill Itachi, Kakashi and Obito will have some kind of heart to heart, and Obviously, as everyone knew, Jiraiya will die. Naruto will be the pwnage Hokage after Jiyaiya dies and get all cool and emo, and then kill Sakura and screw Hinata so hard she won't be able to stand so funny anymore. Then Deidara and Sasori wil return, and Orochimaru too, and something like an ultimate fight will ensue between all the strongest:

Naruto, Sasuke, Pein, Madara, Kakashi, Orochimaru, and We'll get to see Zetsu, who will probably totally own everyone.

[elusive]

the key to pein is the piercings. when jiraiya was stabbed he felt his chakra change. the question is who created/used that stuff? we haven't seen anyone use stuff like that.

either it's someone new or someone we've seen.

tobi/madara: maybe since he seems to out rank pein. maybe he created pein
hanzou: maybe since j-man knows him
nagato: where is he? he has rinnegan
the original rinnegan user: maybe the piercings/black stuff/using multiple bodies is his immortality method

the place those pein bodies were laying at seemed like a lab. i think that whoever created pein has to be some kind of mad scientist/medical nin like oro or kabuto.

this whole pein thing is confusing.

my biggest question is WHO FOUNDED AKATSUKI? was it pein or tobi? they seem to have different goals. tobi seems interested in the sharigan/itachi/sasuke thing. pein wants his mega biju weapon.

[mayhem]

what if madara was on the brink of death after his fight with the first but the original rinnegan user used his jutsu's to revive him and that mask he wears covers not only his face but the piercings he has. We still dont know what the rinnegans extent of abilites are so we can't speculate about anything thats going on. Its driving me crazy. To many god damn " to be continued" 's attached to this one portion of the storyline.

what if its not madara at all but the tengu covering his face to appear as a man. Or maybe obito's body got snatched while tobi looks for another one, probably sasuke. Or maybe ...nothing of the sort.

[Sakuranbo]

There seems to be too much of a conflict of interest or something...Tobi wanted Pein to seek out the kyuubi, however ...

Spoiler for Kyuubi & Pein:

there he is showing off in front of team 7. Makes me think that even if Jiraiya is supposed to kick the bucket. Tobi only really needs just one (or maybe two) of his bodies in order to take Naruto back, unless he plans to take him seriously and takes all of the bodies in order to ensure a successful capture and sealing of 9-tails.

I wonder when/where Kabuto will return, makes me think that when he does he will be fully Orochimaru but with the abilities of Kabuto.

Spoiler for Concerning Pein:

I don't know how the whole Tengu thing is suppsoed to work out if it even will, but I think Pein is Nagato, the question is "where is Nagato (Pein)?"

[mygummies]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Hey I liked the chapter. I'm confused about a couple things

1) Hows exactly does jiraiya's barrier work? Does it merely detect motion? Or is it like gaara's shield of sand, where it detects motion and counters it?

2) If Pain is into stealing high level ninja's bodies, why not itachis? I'm not an itachi fanboy btw, but clearly one of the last sharingan users, who's probably the best genjutsu user in the world, would be a notable addition to any collection.

3) Did the 3 years that jiraiya spent with Pain occur before or after he trained the 4th? (I don't believe the 4th has anything to do with this btw. I'm actually thinking that Yahiko is the real pain. It'd explain why it was the body of choice for ruling akatsuki and enjoying scenic views; pain's day to day body.

4) Did we ever get a good shot at Hanzou's face in a previous chapter? and does it match up to any of the faces currently shown of Pain's bodies?

5) And is Pain necessarily limited to only 6 bodies? And if so, why are they so... well, disappointing? Lets be honest here. The fuuma body was defeated by jiraiya in the past and seems to be the taijutsu type and not even all that good at it; it got crushed again. The yahiko body, Pain himself acknowledges isn't really good for fighting. Pain's overall persona and bloodline is impressive; make no mistake about that. THe actual collection of bodies isn't. Right? To tell the truth, so far, only the summoning body I think is really S class. The rest have failed to impress. Right?

1 I dont know
2 i don't know
3 i do know, at the point where Jiraya trained teh three kids, he was a chunin, he then went back to konoha and became a junin and had his own team, like a sensei, where he trained the 4th and 2 other unknown kids.
the rest i don't know