Fansub Comparison site

[ScR3WiEuS]

Originally Posted by zoot

Used to be any credits would be in the eyecatch (could probably also use the sponsor splash), and lyrics alternated between just a transliteration and just a translation.

funny for you to say that.
when mendoi-fansubs started subbing Kaze no Stigma,
we went for a minimalistic approach.
we did very simple and fitting karaoke,
we used basic, very readable fonts for the dialogue ( arial and calibri ),
we did very simple typesetting,
and we put our credits in the sponsor screen rather than the OP vid.

reaction:
within minutes of the release, we were getting flamed by fansubbers and
leechers alike, for having been lazy. it was proclaimed our worst release ever,
even tho the translation, editing, and timing were pretty good ( the very basics of
fansubbing ).

i have worked on many many releases that didn't feature any credits at all, or where i wasn't credited. so yah, i don't care that much about credits. but that doesn't mean i agree that it's useless and we don't deserve it.
we do, actually. fansubbing i quite a bit of work, especially those fansubbers that put in the effort to create a truly good product. i personally think we have every right to soil your precious anime with our multi-colored fecal matter. fansubs aren't meant to be archived anyway (we've had this discussion before), just get the DVDs.

[Nicholi]

For softsub karaoke there is an approach you can take which can please both groups, using editions and ordered chapters in MKV. One edition will have a trimmed out hardsubbed karaoke which you interject with ordered chapters, and the other edition has the untouched full length video with softsubbed karaoke. It would also be wise to make the hardsubbed edition the default, as that is guaranteed to be played by everyone. Also you'll need to throw in some tracksetex tags because you will need to have a different softsub stream for each edition (1 will just have no karaoke, and the other will). The tracksetex tags will immediately change tracks for you depending on what edition you are on.

Blammo magic, done.

[edogawaconan]

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

funny for you to say that.
when mendoi-fansubs started subbing Kaze no Stigma,
we went for a minimalistic approach.
we did very simple and fitting karaoke,
we used basic, very readable fonts for the dialogue ( arial and calibri ),
we did very simple typesetting,
and we put our credits in the sponsor screen rather than the OP vid.

reaction:
within minutes of the release, we were getting flamed by fansubbers and
leechers alike, for having been lazy. it was proclaimed our worst release ever,
even tho the translation, editing, and timing were pretty good ( the very basics of
fansubbing ).

i have worked on many many releases that didn't feature any credits at all, or where i wasn't credited. so yah, i don't care that much about credits. but that doesn't mean i agree that it's useless and we don't deserve it.
we do, actually. fansubbing i quite a bit of work, especially those fansubbers that put in the effort to create a truly good product. i personally think we have every right to soil your precious anime with our multi-colored fecal matter. fansubs aren't meant to be archived anyway (we've had this discussion before), just get the DVDs.

flame them back!
haven't watched mendoi's ver of KnS but I liked triad's and afk's releases

[ScR3WiEuS]

Originally Posted by edogawaconan

flame them back!
haven't watched mendoi's ver of KnS but I liked triad's and afk's releases

they never subbed Kaze no Stigma xDDDDDD
it was SHS and AnimeYoshi

[CelesAurivern]

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

reaction:
within minutes of the release, we were getting flamed by fansubbers and
leechers alike, for having been lazy. it was proclaimed our worst release ever,
even tho the translation, editing, and timing were pretty good ( the very basics of
fansubbing ).

We all know any release is judged according to
"speed>karaoke>encoding>container>ts>editing>timin g>translation"
roughly in that order.

[edogawaconan]

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

they never subbed Kaze no Stigma xDDDDDD
it was SHS and AnimeYoshi

LOL
I've downloaded them and deleted again since it's dropped
...and it's my habit, downloading bunch of files and watches it someday later (or maybe never)

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by CelesAurivern

We all know any release is judged according to
"speed>karaoke>encoding>container>ts>editing>timin g>translation"
roughly in that order.

I'd say container is probably higher than karaoke...

[Heibi]

Alas, we have fallen so far. Shouldn't a fansub be based on Translation and Timing instead of the extra crud? At least that's how they used to be judged.

Heibi
Central Anime

[Tofusensei]

That's got more than a little to do with the fact that HQ "encoding" and typesetting was technically impossible with a Genlock. It's been this way for the last 6 years or so, unfortunately.

-Tofu

[Heibi]

True. Who cares if the translation and timing are correct, as long as the karaoke and typesetting look good.

I've seen many fansubs that "look" good with bouncy karaoke and such, but are so far off on the translation.

Oh, well.
Heibi
Central Anime

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I'd have to say, for as many fansubs that they do, Dattebayo fansubs are so far my favorite. I consider them to be very well done. I know a lot of other great fansub groups are out there for different anime, but Dattebayo is my fav so far.

[juggen]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I'd have to say, for as many fansubs that they do, Dattebayo fansubs are so far my favorite. I consider them to be very well done. I know a lot of other great fansub groups are out there for different anime, but Dattebayo is my fav so far.

I hope this is sarcasm? =/

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Heibi

I've seen many fansubs that "look" good with bouncy karaoke and such, but are so far off on the translation.

While I share your sentiment that translation and timing should be of top priority in fan subtitling, I have seen numerous examples of fansubs that have it all. Top-notch translation, timing, typesetting, karaoke, everything. One of the last ones, and in my opinion one of the best fansubs in existence, were Menclave's Gundam 00 episodes. They are even released in a timely fashion.

Besides, fansubbers mostly know what is important and what's not, they just have problems showing it. The devaluation of translation importance and quality comes from the leecher side. We can't exactly do anything about that. ^^; They have their own quality standards now, so it's best if you just give them what they want (flashy karaoke and speed) if you actually give a damn about them.

[zoot]

"Leechers", eh--if you hold viewers in contempt, I'm not sure who else fansubs are for.

Incidentally, I didn't list "translation quality" since I was just listing problems that anyone can easily fix (and that a casual review site could easily check)--if your karaoke is stomping on the OP, you can stop that; if your translations suck, well ...

I'd suspect a lot of people don't mention it because, without knowing the language, noticing all but the worst translation problems can be hard.

Editing problems are easier to spot--a couple seem to not even use a spell checker, which I don't understand--going through all the effort to translate everything, and not spending two minutes spellchecking.

[Hanxue]

Originally Posted by zoot

"Leechers", eh--if you hold viewers in contempt, I'm not sure who else fansubs are for.

Fansubbers, obviously.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by zoot

"Leechers", eh--if you hold viewers in contempt, I'm not sure who else fansubs are for.

Oh yea, I heard the term "downloaders" being used quite frequently nowadays... but that is a term that will stick around for a while longer. It's appropriate and has nothing to do with inferiority/superiority complex.

@TheFluffClone#346344334: Stop trolling.

[ScR3WiEuS]

Originally Posted by zoot

"Leechers", eh--if you hold viewers in contempt, I'm not sure who else fansubs are for.

Incidentally, I didn't list "translation quality" since I was just listing problems that anyone can easily fix (and that a casual review site could easily check)--if your karaoke is stomping on the OP, you can stop that; if your translations suck, well ...

I'd suspect a lot of people don't mention it because, without knowing the language, noticing all but the worst translation problems can be hard.

Editing problems are easier to spot--a couple seem to not even use a spell checker, which I don't understand--going through all the effort to translate everything, and not spending two minutes spellchecking.

meh, when we refer to non-fabsubbers that are actually polite and interact in a civilized way with the subbers on a show they like, they're often called "fans" or leechers, but not in a bad way
leechers is mainly used in a derogative way for the not-so-polite downloaders that not only lack any trace of politeness and civilized behavior, but also see it fit to flame the fansubbers for not obeying their every desire.
which is, sadly, the vast majority nowadays.
in that case i make sure to preceed the term with "fucking," resulting in the more specific "fucking leechers" >.<;

[Hanxue]

Calling downloaders leechers is appropriate much in the same way as calling black people niggers is appropriate, amirite?

And who's trolling here, me or the metatrolling guy?

Edit:

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

lack any trace of politeness and civilized behavior

Welcome to the internet?
Actually most of the real nasty cases of flaming I've seen (and on occasion participated in) has been fansubber vs. fansubber. I think it has something to do with emotional involvement in a hobby you've invested a lot of time in. And flaming phrased in a way that escapes profanity filters is still flaming, fyi.

[ScR3WiEuS]

not really. since when have leechers become socially aware like fucking feminists or black rights associations that are actually more racist than your average KKK member?
leechers isn't always used in a bad sense. downloaders sounds gay. it's like calling "black people" "colored people." (mind you, your use of "black people is derogative too, it's considered a racist term as well as nigger)
leechers are those who download without sharing (sharing BW or sharing their skills to fansub )
that just happens to be the vast majority

[Hanxue]

Don't read me wrong there, I'm not racist. I was trying to say that some derogatory terms are a lot less derogatory when used between the people they're intended to insult. When a leecher calls another leecher a leecher, that might not mean much. However, I've found that when fansubbers speak of "the leechers" in general it's usually with varying traces of contempt (contempt for their taste in anime, contempt for not "contributing", contempt for not watching the "right" releases, etc. etc.).

With BT it's pretty hard to NOT share bandwidth in some way, so bizarrely enough the real leechers would be those who show up on IRC to use the XDCC bots. For some reason those people (at least those who say something in the channels) are considered contributors to the community though according to that other thread.


Frankly, if there's anything that I like about the fansubbing community when compared to other, well, comparable communities (like the "warez" scene), it's the relatively non-elitist attitude. There's a lot of communication between downloaders and fansubbers, and there's a lot of "how-to" guides so it's relatively easy to start your own fansubbing group or get accepted into an existing one. This hasn't always been the case, as some people who are better versed in history than me has mentioned, but it's gotten a lot better over the last few years. Which is why I'm posting in these threads; I see a lot of the old elitism creeping around in the shadows and I don't like that.