[Manga] Chapter 387 Discussion

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rurik

This chapter was a good paced action, while I personally did not liked the cliffhanger end, Its really hard to buy that Sasuke got his eyes plucked, the scream could even be from Itachi.

There are countless ways for Sasuke to counter from this position, a Chidori Nagashi or a bunshin created when he was hiding behind the snake being the most obvious ones. Heck maybe Sasuke is using Naruto's strategy against Zabuza and Henge into the windmill Shuriken.
This is not what's important, there are always ways. What is important is that you got to wonder is all.
That's why I find it good, I mean in all likeliness the chances that a character like Sasuke in this kind of story really loose an eye like this is pretty thin... and yet you find yourself to wonder. That's what make this kind of cliffhanger likeable.

[Dwolfwood]

dame it would be crazy if sasuke had the MS and was toying with itachi the whole time, but we finally see that without the MS itachi would have a hell of time trying to defeat sasuke or might even lose,

But they main point is that itachi is arrogant he assumes the sasuke can't over come the MS that he has this win in the bag, sasuke has a techniques up his sleeve, that going to get him the win, he wouldn't face itachi half-assed unless he had a jutsu that could end itachi, I bet you Oro was so hell bent on taking itachi body he probably developed a technique to suppress or counter the sharingian and in turned taught it to sasuke or sasuke ended up finding it.

cause I remember some 1 posting that Shodaime was able to suppress madara sharingian that why he was able to be defeated and since Oro did make yamato, shodiame's clone he probably got some in site on that technique/seal to supress cursed chakra.

The obvious he might of found a way the get the MS the same way kakashi did after all he did surpass him?

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by Dwolfwood

dame it would be crazy if sasuke had the MS and was toying with itachi the whole time, but we finally see that without the MS itachi would have a hell of time trying to defeat sasuke or might even lose,

But they main point is that itachi is arrogant he assumes the sasuke can't over come the MS that he has this win in the bag, sasuke has a techniques up his sleeve, that going to get him the win, he wouldn't face itachi half-assed unless he had a jutsu that could end itachi, I bet you Oro was so hell bent on taking itachi body he probably developed a technique to suppress or counter the sharingian and in turned taught it to sasuke or sasuke ended up finding it.

cause I remember some 1 posting that Shodaime was able to suppress madara sharingian that why he was able to be defeated and since Oro did make yamato, shodiame's clone he probably got some in site on that technique/seal to supress cursed chakra.

The obvious he might of found a way the get the MS the same way kakashi did after all he did surpass him?

Is that why Sasuke supressed Orochimaru's body transfer technique with his sharingan?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Dwolfwood

dame it would be crazy if sasuke had the MS and was toying with itachi the whole time, but we finally see that without the MS itachi would have a hell of time trying to defeat sasuke or might even lose,

Sasuke does not have MS yet, he might be able to develop it in this fight when his life depends on it.

Now i wonder why did Itachi have the MS on, did he use it's special powers?
It seems MS is for making super jutsu but Itachi didn't make any special jutsu. Unless his move before he restrained Sasuke was an MS genjutsu. He was Suddenly standing in front of Sasuke and Sasuke didn't see it coming. Is that the supposed taijutsu move of MS, that people call "susano"? Sasuke is damn fast, so Itachi either was super fast using MS taijutsu or did use genjutsu. Anyway whatever MS move he used it can be countered somehow since the 1st hokage already won against MS.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Dwolfwood

But they main point is that itachi is arrogant he assumes the sasuke can't over come the MS that he has this win in the bag, sasuke has a techniques up his sleeve, that going to get him the win, he wouldn't face itachi half-assed unless he had a jutsu that could end itachi, I bet you Oro was so hell bent on taking itachi body he probably developed a technique to suppress or counter the sharingian and in turned taught it to sasuke or sasuke ended up finding it.

cause I remember some 1 posting that Shodaime was able to suppress madara sharingian that why he was able to be defeated and since Oro did make yamato, shodiame's clone he probably got some in site on that technique/seal to supress cursed chakra.

The obvious he might of found a way the get the MS the same way kakashi did after all he did surpass him?

Well, he supposedly has that "other" jutsu, the one he said you would use during the fight with deidra (or however you spell his name), when he was "experimented" disarming of the clay mines in case it blew up on him.

One thing is for sure though, the MS isn't invincible, give Madara in his prime was beaten before.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Hunter

That's why I find it good, I mean in all likeliness the chances that a character like Sasuke in this kind of story really loose an eye like this is pretty thin... and yet you find yourself to wonder. That's what make this kind of cliffhanger likeable.

Yes...But In this kind of situation I’m very impatient (more to it than..."Ohhh Im not tricked by Kishi I know that won’t happen"...). Now to wait for one Week to know what happened..well, on the positive side..I don’t have to wait One month for it, as is the case of a Seinen Series I know

On a different note, what do you think about Itachi trying to take Sasuke's eye without Sasuke having the MS?

[shikamaru_]

Say what you want, this fight has a winner determined way before it began.. Though I kinda like Itachi, Sasuke will win this fight because Kishi used the plot no jutsu. Some chapters ago, Madara said that Sasuke's eyes had the potencial to surpass Itachi's, so it wouldn't make sense if Sasuke didn't win. Also, still can't be sure of what is Zetsu's importance to the story...

[maverickudo]

i say..lets bet now on kishi's left fieldedness. hmm..lets say i bet sasuke either "does lose his eye(s) and he'll pull something out of his ass like that blind ninja motherfucker from Mortal Kombat D.A. or it was all a lie and sasuke is in a pinch]

i think madara might need a "the light" and the new sharingan. a lot of sneaky shit that's being thrown like barrels in the manga. not much speculation with no base referencing. well little..

[shikamaru_]

if it happened backwards, if Sasuke stole Itachi's eyes, what would be the effect?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Sasuke does not have MS yet, he might be able to develop it in this fight when his life depends on it.

Now i wonder why did Itachi have the MS on, did he use it's special powers?
It seems MS is for making super jutsu but Itachi didn't make any special jutsu. Unless his move before he restrained Sasuke was an MS genjutsu. He was Suddenly standing in front of Sasuke and Sasuke didn't see it coming. Is that the supposed taijutsu move of MS, that people call "susano"? Sasuke is damn fast, so Itachi either was super fast using MS taijutsu or did use genjutsu. Anyway whatever MS move he used it can be countered somehow since the 1st hokage already won against MS.

The MS being nothing but a few new techniques is only an assumption I never believed in, it's an evolution of the Sharingan which abilities are unknown. We know it allows the use of powerful jutsu using eyes as a medium but that's it, the main ability which allow these jutsu to be used in the first place is still clouded in the dark.

The "base" MS which Itachi has activated could simply give an overall better Sharingan, like the difference between the 2nd and 3rd tomoe. It could explain why Sasuke seemed to have more difficulty getting out of Itachi's last Genjutsu in chapter 386 and how Itachi KOed Sasuke with a glance after he killed the clan.
It could also be something as simple as giving the ability to gather chakra to an unnatural degree into the eyes and thus allowing the creation of extremely powerful jutsu and if the Sharingan has indeed a demonic origin, then perhaps the eyes become a channel to foreign power and the more you "open" the MS, the more power you have access to.
That could be why really powerful jutsu like the Tsukuyomi further altered the form of Itachi's MS for example.

Originally Posted by Rurik

Yes...But In this kind of situation I’m very impatient (more to it than..."Ohhh Im not tricked by Kishi I know that won’t happen"...). Now to wait for one Week to know what happened..well, on the positive side..I don’t have to wait One month for it, as is the case of a Seinen Series I know

Well that's kind of the point you know, ending the issue in such a way the readers really want to buy the next one is why Kishimoto is paid in the first place

On a different note, what do you think about Itachi trying to take Sasuke's eye without Sasuke having the MS?

I'm not sure what Itachi is trying to achieve here, he believes Sasuke doesn't have the MS and he wants him to obtain the eyes but he's still seemingly trying to tear them off right now.
If Kishimoto didn't confirm this was their final shutdown I would say Itachi was only giving a reality check to Sasuke showing him what is going to happen to him as long as he doesn't accept the fact he has to get the MS himself to face Itachi.
But since this is it... I don't know, we are lacking something here.

[iBeast]

Kishi did say it is year of Sasuke....so I doubt Sasuke is done and gone.

[Big_Papi]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The MS being nothing but a few new techniques is only an assumption I never believed in, it's an evolution of the Sharingan which abilities are unknown. We know it allows the use of powerful jutsu using eyes as a medium but that's it, the main ability which allow these jutsu to be used in the first place is still clouded in the dark.

The "base" MS which Itachi has activated could simply give an overall better Sharingan, like the difference between the 2nd and 3rd tomoe. It could explain why Sasuke seemed to have more difficulty getting out of Itachi's last Genjutsu in chapter 386 and how Itachi KOed Sasuke with a glance after he killed the clan.
It could also be something as simple as giving the ability to gather chakra to an unnatural degree into the eyes and thus allowing the creation of extremely powerful jutsu and if the Sharingan has indeed a demonic origin, then perhaps the eyes become a channel to foreign power and the more you "open" the MS, the more power you have access to.
That could be why really powerful jutsu like the Tsukuyomi further altered the form of Itachi's MS for example.



Well that's kind of the point you know, ending the issue in such a way the readers really want to buy the next one is why Kishimoto is paid in the first place


I'm not sure what Itachi is trying to achieve here, he believes Sasuke doesn't have the MS and he wants him to obtain the eyes but he's still seemingly trying to tear them off right now.
If Kishimoto didn't confirm this was their final shutdown I would say Itachi was only giving a reality check to Sasuke showing him what is going to happen to him as long as he doesn't accept the fact he has to get the MS himself to face Itachi.
But since this is it... I don't know, we are lacking something here.

Now the thing behind that is wa snever said that you needed to take someone elses MS shanringan to have it forever, just to take someone elses sharingan period, odviously Itachi can activate it again if he takes sasukes in that note we will see itachins MS paterned mixed wth Sasukes never before seen MS pater mixed with his.

[Alleluia_Cone]

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason that Itachi has, up until this point, not used Tsukuyomi?

At the very least, there have been several opportunities for him to have done so, and given that Sasuke has continually stared into his brother's eyes, why would Itachi not take the initiative in using perhaps his most powerful technique?

This says nothing of the fact that Itachi also seems reluctant to use Amaterasu as well, even though when he used it previously it was so powerful as to make even Jiraiya have a double take.

All of which is to say that a manga becomes boring when the outcome of every fight is prearranged and easily predicted.

On a purely logical level, there really isn't any coherent argument that can be made for Sasuke defeating Itachi. As it is, Sasuke is one part cursed seal, one part Orochimaru, and one part Sharingan, which, even in combination with each other, do not surpass Mangekyo Sharingan, no matter how optimistic one's view on the matter. That fact that it is going to happen, and that Itachi will conveniently not use techniques which Sasuke doesn't seem to have a counter for, is something beyond aggravating.

[Ke0]

My theory is this a rather simple one at that

Spoiler for click:

Itachi does get Sasuke's sharingan, but he only gets one eye. Sasuke's left eye. Kishimoto did say that Kakashi will play a big part. So Itachi will get Sasuke's left eye, but Kakashi will give Sasuke his left eye.

[Endrance]

yeh that is an interesting theory

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Big_Papi

Now the thing behind that is wa snever said that you needed to take someone elses MS shanringan to have it forever, just to take someone elses sharingan period, odviously Itachi can activate it again if he takes sasukes in that note we will see itachins MS paterned mixed wth Sasukes never before seen MS pater mixed with his.

It wasn't said the brother on the wrong side of the stick was to have the MS but Itachi did try everything he could to convince Sasuke to kill his friend and told him during his last encounter that he had no interest in him at this point which indicate that Sasuke wasn't ready somehow.
Like I said we are lacking a piece of the puzzle.

Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason that Itachi has, up until this point, not used Tsukuyomi?

At the very least, there have been several opportunities for him to have done so, and given that Sasuke has continually stared into his brother's eyes, why would Itachi not take the initiative in using perhaps his most powerful technique?

This says nothing of the fact that Itachi also seems reluctant to use Amaterasu as well, even though when he used it previously it was so powerful as to make even Jiraiya have a double take.

All of which is to say that a manga becomes boring when the outcome of every fight is prearranged and easily predicted.

On a purely logical level, there really isn't any coherent argument that can be made for Sasuke defeating Itachi. As it is, Sasuke is one part cursed seal, one part Orochimaru, and one part Sharingan, which, even in combination with each other, do not surpass Mangekyo Sharingan, no matter how optimistic one's view on the matter. That fact that it is going to happen, and that Itachi will conveniently not use techniques which Sasuke doesn't seem to have a counter for, is something beyond aggravating.

Actually yes you are obviously missing a few things.
Itachi doesn't seem to need to use it as of now so what's the point to use a double edged jutsu which, if resisted, would give the advantage to Sasuke?
It's even worse in the case of Amaterasu since burning to ashes someone's body doesn't seem to me the best way to steal their eyes. I also have to question your ability to easily predict the fight if you really think Itachi isn't going to use MS jutsu eventually.
Lastly I'm not sure how I can tell you this but all the fights in all the works of fiction you ever read/watch were prearranged and if you seek a "purely logical level" outcome then you might be mistaken to read shounen manga because it's not something you will find often there.


edit: hi Ke0, long time no see ^^

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by Ke0

My theory is this a rather simple one at that

Spoiler for click:

Itachi does get Sasuke's sharingan, but he only gets one eye. Sasuke's left eye. Kishimoto did say that Kakashi will play a big part. So Itachi will get Sasuke's left eye, but Kakashi will give Sasuke his left eye.

...and Itachi gives his other sharingan to Kakashi so they all get a single eternal MS each just like Madara and they live happilly ever after in their own private little Eternal SM Club™ (Oops I meant "MS"!).

Seriously, no CS2, no tsukiyomi, no amaterasu, this fight is far from over...

[Ke0]

Originally Posted by Hunter

edit: hi Ke0, long time no see ^^

Hey Hunter, I found myself back at AS haha, gotta love the discussions here

[Endrance]

I'm just guessing but sasuke's got to have a wide variety of abilities i mean he should have everything orochimaru had and orochimaru had a lot of jutsu

[Ke0]

Originally Posted by neuromancer

...and Itachi gives his other sharingan to Kakashi so they all get a single eternal MS each just like Madara and they live happilly ever after in their own private little Eternal SM Club™ (Oops I meant "MS"!).

Seriously, no CS2, no tsukiyomi, no amaterasu, this fight is far from over...

I doubt Itachi is going to use Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu, if you remember in chapter 386 Itachi is clearly showing signs of eyesight degradation. I figure he'll get Sasuke's left eye but Sasuke prevents him from getting the other, and somewhere down the line Kakashi gives Sasuke his sharingan. Since Kakashi already has Mangekyo, Sasuke would get it aswell, and seeing as Sasuke is an Uchiha, he won't have to worry about the toll it takes on his body chakra wise.

Not the best theory, but then again I've we've seen some crazy stuff in the series, like the fact Kakashi even had a Sharingan, let alone now has Mangekyo sharingan