True Tears - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

Aha! I was expecting that response. If you look closely, what she and Aiko are doing isn't really the same. Aiko has achieved resolution in her feelings. She is with Nobuse only to get closer to Shinichirou. This was hinted by Aiko herself. It IS wrong and someone will get hurt, but it's not exactly the same thing that Hiromi's doing. While Aiko is trying to get closer to Shinichirou through association, Hiromi is purposely distancing herself from him. The way she tries so hard to convince her friend that Jun is actually the one she likes. She's lying to her friend and herself. And when an opportunity finally arises to confess to Shin about her true relationship with Jun, she turns cold and throws him out of the room. Her behavior could be caused by the stepmother or it could be some other issue from her past, but until we see the true circumstances behind the way she acts I'll just keep my current stance towards her.

I don’t really see how she is distancing herself after 5 episodes. From my point of view, there was already a wall between the two of them right from the first episode, but that wall has been slowly starting to crumble. She is no longer the person who was trying to avoid Shin, but quite the opposite, someone who has realized how important the people closest to her are (just by looking at the beach scene). How is she trying so hard to convince her friend that Jun is the one she likes? Wasn’t she trying to convince her that it’s Shin the one she doesn’t like… I think Hiromi already let him know what kind of relationship she has with Jun back at the beginning of episode 04, but probably not in a way in which she lets him know her true feelings/thoughts concerning the two of them (from which I believe Shin misunderstands).

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

Ok fine, I concede. Both characters are incredibly passive-aggressive. That still doesn't change the fact that Hiromi has no idea what she really wants. I was just using her passive-aggressive behavior as an example of that. She is constantly running away from her own feelings, and what's worse is she is somehow trying to make it Shin's fault. She really didn't have any reason to get upset and turn cold in her room when she was the one who had created the misunderstanding in the first place. She should have come clean. Had it not been for my current dislike of Shin, I might have been upset after watching episode 5.

How is she constantly running after the last episode? I think there is more than enough evidence in the last two episodes to indicate that she has come closer to recognize/understand her feelings for Shin. While from the audience’s point of view (Shin’s point of view) she is trying to make it look like Shin’s fault, from her point of view it’s actually his fault. If you look carefully at that scene from Hiromi’s point of view, she does have a reason to get upset and I hope the title gives you a hint also.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

Yep. Noe's jacket. I kinda caught it easily since I watched episodes 4 and 5 back to back. I guess when Aiko puts Nobuse's sweater on him it'll make the third time?

Yah I was thinking, good lord boyo, where is your romantic preparation, you know carrying a brolly or making sure you are wearing enough so you can use your non smelly jacket to keep the girl warm.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

Yep. Noe's jacket. I kinda caught it easily since I watched episodes 4 and 5 back to back. I guess when Aiko puts Nobuse's sweater on him it'll make the third time?

You're probably right but Hiromi is currently the only one that we know for sure that he likes. He does'nt think of the others the same way or at least the same level. And his reaction to Hiromi putting the scarf on him generated a more positive response because it came from the one he likes.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

You're probably right but Hiromi is currently the only one that we know for sure that he likes. He does'nt think of the others the same way or at least the same level. And his reaction to Hiromi putting the scarf on him generated a more positive response because it came from the one he likes.

The fact the poor boy is so clueless and lost at this point makes any prospect difficult for him except for Hiromi who comes complete with her own set of unique problems. I think its safe to say he has not even entertained the thought that maybe Noe or Ai like him, even though because of Noe's brother request he has been thinking about her more than usual. His reaction to Hiromi putting the scarf on was what i expected but if Noe or Ai were to do the same thing(Ai basically did) He would think nothing of it. Which is why any confession from any girl other than Hiromi will probably set him back mentally. I just think it will be hard for him to comprehend things its a lot to handle at once. I believe Shin has the perseverance to see things through no matter what route he takes but it will be after he wallows in self pity for a bit when the shit really hits the fan

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Falkor

How is she constantly running after the last episode? I think there is more than enough evidence in the last two episodes to indicate that she has come closer to recognize/understand her feelings for Shin. While from the audience’s point of view (Shin’s point of view) she is trying to make it look like Shin’s fault, from her point of view it’s actually his fault. If you look carefully at that scene from Hiromi’s point of view, she does have a reason to get upset and I hope the title gives you a hint also.

Indeed. While I can say much for hiromi who still has a "bad" impression on me (being the girl who cried wolf) the problem now is definitely shin's. That guy is definitely convinced that hiromi has an interest in mr number 4 thats why he 1) thinks it is a good idea to blackmail him to go out with her and 2) why he was so keen on telling her that he think she is cute. Dumbass shin can't get it through his head that hiromi didn't like him talking about another guy. He was never the considerate type *remembers flashback where he made her cry*

[Kaoru Chujo]

I like all the characters. I even have potential sympathy for Shin's mom. Let's see: you are living happily with your husband and beloved son for 14 (?) years, then suddenly the daughter of someone you think wronged you -- and maybe even your husband's secret daughter -- comes to live with you. Mess your life up much?

She may not be dealing with her problem well, but that goes for a lot of us, and certainly for Shin, Hiromi, Nobuse, and Ai-chan, too. Stories in which everybody acts perfectly well are not about human beings but about cartoon characters.

As for Hiromi, I don't see any passive-aqgressive behavior in her. Conflicted, yes. Confused, yes. Desperate, yes. But as cloudninja said, she has shown herself perfectly normal and happy everywhere but at home, where she has no option but to live with this woman who hates her. She tries to be a good girl -- washing the floors, doing data-entry -- but it doesn't help.

The only person I see passive-aggressiveness in is Shin, in his dealings with his mother. And there, the behavior seems perfectly reasonable for a 16 (?) year old, a first step toward becoming independent. Remember also that this is an East Asian household, where showing disrespect for parents is more unusual than in America or Europe.

I'm really not sure what she feels for Shin or for Jun. And I think she wonders, herself. She likes Shin, for sure, but whether she wants to be his gf, I don't know. She only became warmer toward him in the days after she had told him she was interested in Jun, which may have made her feel a bit less pressure in their relationship.

Like cloudninja, I also have a feeling that Jun is a bit mad. His reaction when Noe and her grandmother were speaking. The odd hitch when he was putting on Noe's helmet. His conversations with Jun.

To tell the truth, the character I like least is Nobuse. Self-centred idiot is how I see him -- but his feelings are perfectly understandable, too.

I got busy for a day and came back to find three pages of good new posts. Not bad.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

To tell the truth, the character I like least is Nobuse. Self-centred idiot is how I see him -- but his feelings are perfectly understandable, too.

I thought i was the only one being hard on Nobuse so its reassuring to see that someone thinks the same thing and im not just picking on him. As you stated i understand the guys feelings perfectly. But what i dont condone is his attitude and his unwillingness to learn more about Ai's feelings. The fact that he never actually got Ai on his own will is a bit disheartening. When you have feelings for someone you should show your interest in them by perusing them and letting them know how you feel. Nobuse skipped that step and it seems Shin was the one responsible, Nobuse did none of the work so boasting about having Ai as your girlfriend is mute if it was not for your friend you would only have yourself and its funny because even though he calls her his girlfriend in reality at least in her head he is not. He claims when it comes to Ai he knows and notices everything there is, I sincerely doubt that he notices what he wants to. I dont think hes a bad person but i would really like to see him care about Ai's feelings instead of bragging about what he thinks he knows about her. He doesnt seem to take an actual interest in her, her hobbies or anything. Taking someone granted makes it hurt more when they are gone and there is a real possibility that he may find out how that feels sooner rather than later.

[Guardian Enzo]

Yeah, I basically agree on Nobuse so far - he's kind of a less likable version of Sunohara from "Clannad". He's seemingly there for comic relief and as a plot driver, but he really hasn't shown any depth of character yet. That's not to say that's a bad thing - this is a pretty big and complicated cast and not everyone can be compelling at once. I don't think there's any question that his relationship with Ai is one-sided, though - you can see she's never really there when she's with him (and we all know where she is...).

[Grimkill7]

I actually like Nobuse. Then again, I'm notorious for liking side characters more than the leads (but in my defense, the leads in most harems are terrible). I just think he should break up with Ai immediately, for both her sake and his.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

To tell the truth, the character I like least is Nobuse. Self-centred idiot is how I see him -- but his feelings are perfectly understandable, too.

I got busy for a day and came back to find three pages of good new posts. Not bad.

Well, we finally agree on something . Nobuse character won't let him do the noble and selfish thing. I hope I am wrong, but he loves Aiko so much and he is a selfish person. Selfish person by nature never do selfsacrifices for other people not matter how much they love them.

[Darklightz]

Ai is kinda mean to Nobuse though. She doesn't feel anything for Nobuse and has a crush on Shinichiro and still acts like nothing happened. Strangely enough, she's still my favorite.

Noe has gone beyond weird now. Imposing yourself on people you know don't particularily like you means either she wanted Hiromi to feel awkward or she's completely clueless.

Hiromi is the girl I like the least now. While it's true that the classic trait of the male protagonist is his complete blindness to girl's feelings, and it's certainly true for Shinichiro, but Hiromi is still expecting way too much out of him. She likes him but offers very little overture, and after saying she likes Number 4, she made no attempt to deny it. What does she expect? That shinichiro will somehow read her mind and heart, know she doesn't like Number 4 for real and ask her out?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

...Noe has gone beyond weird now. Imposing yourself on people you know don't particularily like you means either she wanted Hiromi to feel awkward or she's completely clueless... While it's true that the classic trait of the male protagonist is his complete blindness to girl's feelings, and it's certainly true for Shinichiro, but Hiromi is still expecting way too much out of him. She likes him but offers very little overture, and after saying she likes Number 4, she made no attempt to deny it. What does she expect? That shinichiro will somehow read her mind and heart, know she doesn't like Number 4 for real and ask her out?

I think it was quite reasonable for Noe to sit with Hiromi. Hiromi did ask to be friends with her after all, even if Noe saw that she had ulterior motives and didn't really like her enough for that. Maybe if they get to know each other, she will. (I think the translations of Noe's "you don't really suki me" were a bit misleading.)

But I think you make a really good point about Hiromi towards Shin. Guys can really be obtuse, but Hiromi has done only one thing -- the seaside and the scarf -- to make him think she feels warmly towards him. And she specifically told him she liked #4. He still shouldn't have meddled, but neither should he feel he can make advances toward her.

I should also add that I like your point about Ai. She isn't really being fair to Nobuse. But I still like her, too. Probably I like her third-best, but I like all three of them.

[arkon]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Dumbass shin can't get it through his head that hiromi didn't like him talking about another guy. He was never the considerate type *remembers flashback where he made her cry*

Why would he think otherwise though? Like you said as far as he is concerned she isn't interested in him but she does like #4 and so in his mind, telling her that #4 thinks she's cute would be something that'd please her. Perfectly understandable IMO

And besides I'd hardly call what Shin did blackmail That's taking things a bit far.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by arkon

Why would he think otherwise though? Like you said as far as he is concerned she isn't interested in him but she does like #4 and so in his mind, telling her that #4 thinks she's cute would be something that'd please her. Perfectly understandable IMO

And besides I'd hardly call what Shin did blackmail That's taking things a bit far.

well, the description of the episode said that he mentioned Jun going with hiromi just for the sake of showing how ridiculous his request was. He didn't think it through and was not really his intention. He actually was venting his frustration about hiromi liking Jun.

[arkon]

Sure, sure. I agree really. I don't think he's without his faults and in that exchange with Jun he didn't really think things through. I guess I was just sort of disagreeing with the dumbass shin notion regarding what he said in Hiromi's room.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by arkon

And besides I'd hardly call what Shin did blackmail That's taking things a bit far.

I agree wasnt blackmail more like bartering I think Shin did kick himself later for making that kind of arrangement then realized it was his fault

[grey_moon]

I actually know guys like Jun (I don't like them that much tbh). They are so confident in their pulling abilities and the scary thing is when they set their minds to getting a girl they pretty much succeed. Its frightening how they end up treating girls like objects. That is if Jun is that type of guy....

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I actually know guys like Jun (I don't like them that much tbh). They are so confident in their pulling abilities and the scary thing is when they set their minds to getting a girl they pretty much succeed. Its frightening how they end up treating girls like objects. That is if Jun is that type of guy....

He did'nt even remember Hiromi until Shin mentioned her full name so I don't have a good opinion of him going after a girl he does'nt know much about or care for just because it would get Shin to go out with Noe. Since he won't be pursuing Hiromi because he already liked her, if she does'nt seem that interested in his advances he would look like a major sleazebag if he pushes too hard because of his impure intentions.

My early impression is that he only cares about Noe and sees others (Shinichiro and Hiromi) as tools based on his exchange with Shinichiro. His response to Shin's ridiculous counterproposal after he finally remembered who she was, "she's cute". As if it was an acceptable offer for him to go after Hiromi in exchange for getting Shin to go out with Noe. Again that makes me think he views them as tools to get what he wants. I think there's definitely something off about him.

[arkon]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I agree wasnt blackmail more like bartering I think Shin did kick himself later for making that kind of arrangement then realized it was his fault

Agreed. And that's the word I was looking for! Strange how it just didn't come to mind at the time of that last post.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

My early impression is that he only cares about Noe and sees others (Shinichiro and Hiromi) as tools based on his exchange with Shinichiro. His response to Shin's ridiculous counterproposal after he finally remembered who she was, "she's cute". As if it was an acceptable offer for him to go after Hiromi in exchange for getting Shin to go out with Noe. Again that makes me think he views them as tools to get what he wants. I think there's definitely something off about him.

Maybe the close proximity to the ultra cute and moetastic Noe, but being not allowed to touch has driven him