Learning Japanese

[LiberLibri]

Originally Posted by richvh

LiberLibriさんへ
Converting the verb into a gerund (-ing form) or, if an object, an infinitive (to form) is more natural here:
Time passing is fast
I love watching baseball games. or I love to watch baseball games.

Yeah I knew it was unnatural, but I intended to show the gradual structure (that ... <-> ... の). Thanks anyway

[Miko Miko]

Question: When is Kanji used?
Is it only used when there is no word for the Hiragana or Katakana..?

[richvh]

Anything in Japanese could be written in hiragana or katakana. Not everything can be written in kanji, unless some are used for purely phonetic purposes to represent particles and flectional endings. (This is how the kana were developed in the first place, as simplified versions of kanji that were being used this way.) Kanji help distinguish homonyms and break up long strings of hiragana, making word boundaries more obvious (though overuse of kanji can obscure them again.) Japanese strive for a pleasing balance between kanji and kana.

[LiberLibri]

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

Question: When is Kanji used?
Is it only used when there is no word for the Hiragana or Katakana..?

Firstly, kanji is ideogram, and kana-s (hiragana & katakana) are phonogram. You can write down any Japanese sentence by using kana-s. Japanese schoolchildren first learn kana-s and do every writing by them. But a text containing only phonograms is hard to interprete, for it doesn't tell homonyms. In English, homonyms are distinguished by changing the spell slightly (night / knight). In Japanese, it is done by using ideogram.

Secondly, kanji in Japanese is like greek / latin words in English. They express complicated notions. 地質学 (earth-qualiy-study) corresponds to geo-logy (earth-word), 解毒 (break-poison) to anti-dote (counter-giving). Both language have expanded their vocabularies by loaning ancient foreign heritage. Human and place names are in principle by taken from kanji words similarly as classical languages in English. Imagine you write greek words in greek alphabet in english text; "Today I go to σχολα and learn μαθηματικη and ηιστορια". It is like that.

To sum up,

1. you can use kana-s anywhere.
2. nouns, adjectives and verbs are recommended to be writen in kanji.
3. "difficult" words and proper nouns are strongly recommended to be written in kanji.

The orthographies of kana and kanji were established by Agency for Cultural Affairs, but there is no official and binding rule cencerning when to use kanji. (though, there are some internal guidelines in massmedia companies and public agencies. Editors love to rely on such books.)

EDIT: Sorry again I didn't notice richvh had already answered. I totally agree with his explanation.

[Vexx]

And... the older and more educated one gets, the more kanji you will put into your writing and the more kanji you'll encounter when reading at your most challenging levels.

You can often tell the target audience for a story by how much kanji it has and whether it comes with furigana to help with the kanji.

Stories written for children will have little or no kanji.
Stories written for teens will have a fair amount of kanji but often with furigana as a reading aid.

If you grab a copy of the manga series Yotsuba& -- you'll notice that when the children speak, the dialog is mostly in kana form. When the teens speak, its written with more kanji. And when the adults speak, there's a LOT of kanji. Very interesting way to depict the dialog.

Example: A child's dialog bubble that means "What?" will be written "なに？” where as an adult's equivalent dialog bubble will contain "何?"

[ahmad]

Hey guys . I want to start learning japanese by myself. Please tell me some good books. I learned hiragana and katakana 2 times before. But since i never used them after, I forgot. I wanna start again, this time with a good book. So I know where should i start and what to do next. Also, what is a good method to memorize the kana?

[richvh]

Selecting a Japanese Textbook

[Vexx]

The Japanese for Busy People series (AjALT) isn't terrible. Its been revised and now has audio CDs. I've also enjoyed a high school text series called Adventures in Japanese (by Peterson&Omizo). After that, I'd be pointing at a pile of Kodansha reference books and a conversational Japanese class at the community college.

For written Japanese, the Japanese in Mangaland series manages to be entertaining and helpful for starters, plus it teaches the written sound effects (onomatopoeia) one sees in manga.

As far as remembering the kanas, I'd recommend getting a chart that combines romaji, katakana, and hiragana -- and make your own flashcards. Making and then practicing with them helps. Also writing the chart repeatedly til your brain accepts it. Daily writing practice with simple sentences and reading short texts help.

Basically hit those neurons from multiple sensory ports.

I understand how easy it is to lose the pointers to data. I forget katakana almost instantly if I don't use it daily because my brain seems convinced I only need one symbol for a sound.

edit: good gods, richvh, do you monitor this thread 24/7?

[richvh]

Not quite, but I do have it on my subscription list.

[qtipbrit]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this: とびはよい男の子である
I know very few kanji, so all I can derive is: Tobihayoi(KANJI!)no(KANJI!)dearu, where Tobi is apparently the name of a boy.

Help please?
And a translation, too.

[Nagato]

You can copy paste the kanji into dictionary. Try JBrute or Rikaichan. There's also many online dictionaries you can find on the net.

とびはよい男の子である
tobi ha yoi otoko no ko dearu
Tobi is a good boy.

[LiberLibri]

Originally Posted by Bekki

I would love to learn Japanese, but I don't have the time. But because of my website, I always need things translated from Japanese into English. & I was wondering if there was a site that would do this for you. I know it would need to be paid for, but I don't really care about paying somebody to translate stuff for me since it is really important for me. Does such a trustworthy site/person exist? If anybody can help, then can you message me please. Thanks.

I could help you if you are a native English speaker and willing to check my thesis grammatically...
I am a student in an Anglophone college and must submit reports in English but I am terribe at making English composition (a/the/no-article!)

I cannot judge whether my language skill is trustworthy.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by LiberLibri

I could help you if you are a native English speaker and willing to check my thesis grammatically...
I am a student in an Anglophone college and must submit reports in English but I am terribe at making English composition (a/the/no-article!)

I cannot judge whether my language skill is trustworthy.

(I'm replying here since LiberLibri has PMs disabled.)

I don't know of Bekki's English credentials or available time to help, but I would be glad to help you out with this. Simply send me a message with your contact information if you decide you would like me to proofread for you.

[Bekki]

Originally Posted by LiberLibri

I could help you if you are a native English speaker and willing to check my thesis grammatically...
I am a student in an Anglophone college and must submit reports in English but I am terribe at making English composition (a/the/no-article!)

I cannot judge whether my language skill is trustworthy.

Do you mean you need help with English? I could help you if you need it. I am from England, and English is my first language.

[catrlgirl]

I am currently learning Japanese and watching Anime help loads. So is anyone else learning? If so would you like to help me learn I have been studying for about three months.

[lixuelai]

Im taking Japanese courses in college atm. Took a semester and half so far. Im also going to study abroad over the summer in Kanazawa.

[Miko Miko]

^ Thanks for the answer to my question, I think it understand ^_^''

I have another question though, Is there ever spaces used in Japanese, because looking at Japanese text doesn't look like it. Does spacing not matter?

[LiberLibri]

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

I have another question though, Is there ever spaces used in Japanese, because looking at Japanese text doesn't look like it. Does spacing not matter?

No. Modern European languages use space in order to show the beginning and end of each word. However you can tell the borders of words in a Japanese text because of the existence of kanji. See richvh's explanation above.

Two exceptions:

Children sometimes use space to clarify the border for their knowledge on kanji is limited and rely on phonogram, the kana-s.

Formal typesetting. When writing Japanese text, you insert a space at the head of every paragraph. And some puctuation marks (exclamation ! / question ?) require to be followed by a space.

[Vexx]

Spacing is only used (if at all) in text written for very young children, some manga, and in "learn the language" books. Typically in "hiragana & katakana mostly" stuff... (like manga for kids and teens where spaces and "!" or "?" or used for emphasis).

Once you know the flow of the sentence grammar, can play "spot the particles!", and understand where kanji tends to erupt, the spaces are no longer necessary. You'll also more often see the script flow vertically than horizontally.

"watashi wa benkyo o shimasu" would look like a mess if unspaced in romaji so the spaces are needed.
But in -kana script: "わたひ　は　べんきょ　を　します。”　　　(spaces left for learning purposes or a young audience)
”わたしはべんきょをします。” the particles provide a framework that the practiced eye can immediately parse the sentence.
When kanji is added, it makes it even easier (or rather makes more complex sentences easier to dissect).
”私は勉強をします。”

[richvh]

Originally Posted by Vexx

"watashi wa benkyo o shimasu" would look like a mess if unspaced in romaji so the spaces are needed.
But in -kana script: "わたひ　は　べんきょ　を　します。”　　　(spaces left for learning purposes or a young audience)
”わたしはべんきょをします。” the particles provide a framework that the practiced eye can immediately parse the sentence.
When kanji is added, it makes it even easier (or rather makes more complex sentences easier to dissect).
”私は弁居をします。”

Uh, Vexx? Did you mean 勉強／べんきょう? I don't think the compound you used exists...