Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Lilslugga]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The minute Suzaku's mask falls off or the Ashford Cat makes people double-take with how close it is to Zero, everything will fall apart..And that's when the champion of the rice-farming community R.R. (Real Rice-Farmer) and C.C. (Corn Collector) step into action to makes things right...

Sunrise presents:

Code Geass: R2 Bought The Farm...

Coming to Theatres Luthousand 11 !!!


Seriously though, lulz...But really seriously though yeah you're right...To think the BK's are all cool with fake zero part 2 is hard to take...Diethard would have totally figured out it was a sham and exposed it, that's why they rubbed him out...

lol good one

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by blewin

I wonder how Zero can still be a driving force in the world of peace. The Black Knights know that Zero was Lelouch. The ending is pretty convenient for failing to address issues that are bound to happen. I don't think the Black Knights and anyone would accept and least of all, follow someone who has a mask on ever again. How can they not be suspicious of another Zero pulling the strings behind Nunnally?

still, the ending is fairly complete in a way, but not perfect enough for a 10/10. Love the ambiguity of the ending though.

That is where you place your own puzzles. Although some pieces remain missing regardless, there's enough information to relatively connect what happens afterwards.

It's obvious that the Black Knights would naturally meet up with his new Zerozaku, if not for clarification, then an explanation. Given the circumstances, it's highly likely that Suzaku will reveal himself to the select few who knew the real Zero is Lelouch, and those who are smart enough will be able to connect the dots, like Toudou and most likely Xingke/Kaguya. If not, Suzaku or Kallen will clearly be the one to clear things up.

Of course, those details elude us, but it's a natural and most likely assumption considering that 'Zero' remains in public view and not vanish away.

Originally Posted by tzia_n

maybe ougi is the mary sue of the series, come to think of it, he probably has the "happiest" end

On the contrary, you can look at it from a different perspective. Ougi was the very first person to acknowledge Zero. But at the same time, he was also the one who condemned him to the pits. In the natural flow where Ougi come to realize that Lelouch was never evil and that unlike him, who betrayed Zero for Japan and selfish reasons, the man he betrayed instead sacrificed himself for the sake of even those who betrayed him, Ougi himself would be the one who would feel the largest blunt of the realization, aside from Kallen.

In a sense, we can assume that Ougi becomes somewhat 'Zero-ish' in that he also has to carry the burden of ensuring the happiness and tomorrow brought upon by Lelouch stays as long as it can be. Tamaki probably realizes that a little too, and rather than trying to be a government official he's unqualified to be, he stays the happy joker of the team opening his own bar.

[cjl]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

yeah, how BK would react to the new zero is tricky. obviously they have to address the issue because essentially zero is the symbol of hope.

Technically, with the whole world peace thing, there's really no need for the BK.
But yeah, Zero is going to be a symbol of peace, and also an enforcer of the peace. Suzaku agreed to throw away all his happiness in order to serve the world again and again as a hero of justice, so he would probably act as a negotiator and pop up from time to time to help spur the world towards peace.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The minute Suzaku's mask falls off or the Ashford Cat makes people double-take with how close it is to Zero, everything will fall apart..And that's when the champion of the rice-farming community R.R. (Real Rice-Farmer) and C.C. (Corn Collector) step into action to makes things right...

Sunrise presents:

Code Geass: R2 Bought The Farm...

Coming to Theatres Luthousand 11 !!!


Seriously though, lulz...But really seriously though yeah you're right...To think the BK's are all cool with fake zero part 2 is hard to take...Diethard would have totally figured out it was a sham and exposed it, that's why they rubbed him out...

nah, deithard is too crazy to actually do something logical he'd probably document arthur or something

[blewin]

Originally Posted by cjl

Technically, with the whole world peace thing, there's really no need for the BK.
But yeah, Zero is going to be a symbol of peace, and also an enforcer of the peace. Suzaku agreed to throw away all his happiness in order to serve the world again and again as a hero of justice, so he would probably act as a negotiator and pop up from time to time to help spur the world towards peace.

and to do that, the symbol needs power, and here comes Nunnally.

[Revolutionist]

Tbh I see there being an OVA or a movie to wrap things up and make the fans happy. There's one main thing that's missing from the conclusion, the Geass aspect of the show. They can definitely explain Lelouch's fate and go deeper into the Geass subplot, maybe even resolving it completely in an OVA or movie. They could finish it all up by having C.C and Lelouch exchange their codes in C's World for their mortality, and living their rest of their lives with Orange, Anya, Nunnaly and Zerozaku. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but oh well it's within the realm of possibility.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

That is where you place your own puzzles. Although some pieces remain missing regardless, there's enough information to relatively connect what happens afterwards.

It's obvious that the Black Knights would naturally meet up with his new Zerozaku, if not for clarification, then an explanation. Given the circumstances, it's highly likely that Suzaku will reveal himself to the select few who knew the real Zero is Lelouch, and those who are smart will be able to connect the dots. If not, Suzaku or Kallen will clearly be the one to clear things up.

Of course, those details elude us, but it's a natural and most likely assumption considering that 'Zero' remains in public view and not vanish away.

but why would they accept suzaku?

[blewin]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

but why would they accept suzaku?

another point I agree with ya. I thought Toudou especially would hate to have Suzaku helping in world peace... and not with him dressed up as Zero too.

[cors8]

I think the difference is that Suzaku doesn't have a geass that can control them against their will.

I'm assuming they're smart enough to realize a small bit of what really happened too.

[cjl]

Originally Posted by blewin

another point I agree with ya. I thought Toudou especially would hate to have Suzaku helping in world peace... and not with him dressed up as Zero too.

On the contrary, I think Toudou would accept the new Zero. He doesn't have to know that Zero is Suzaku, but he seemed to accept it when he asked Kallen, and she replied that it was Zero.

edit: Also, Toudou is fairly intelligent, and I'm sure he would be able to figure out the Zero Requiem plan

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

but why would they accept suzaku?

Originally Posted by blewin

another point I agree with ya. I thought Toudou especially would hate to have Suzaku helping in world peace... and not with him dressed up as Zero too.

If they cannot accept 2 men who had given up their life, their name, their happiness for the sake of the people and the future without any regard for themselves, they might as well rot in hell. Very few of them deserved Lelouch's sacrifice to begin with.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Ngale

Of course, those details elude us, but it's a natural and most likely assumption considering that 'Zero' remains in public view and not vanish away

Well the detail that eludes us is Suzaku's ability (inability) to persuade or even come up with a strategy to deal with whatever unpredictable threat that will come...He is a symbol, but if he assumes the Zero role will he need to make decisions for the world that requires more than fleet of foot to fug-sword abilities? Schnizel's will has been totally pwned (Who cries for the "good guy" Schnizel?) and is useless without Zero's leadership and Nunally is Lacus Clyne paralyzed in this case...Xingke dead, Ougi is Sarah Palin, so if some $hit brews all we got in the brains department is Lloyd and Nina coming up with another WMD...Rice-farmers on haywagons better be ready I tells you...

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Tbh I see there being an OVA or a movie to wrap things up and make the fans happy

That's the PROBLEM...STOP making fans happy and just write and//or create a good story...Making fans happy starts this $hit over and over and over again...

[morbosfist]

Schneizel may be slaved to Zero, but his analytical mind would remain intact. Lelouch would know this. Schneizel is there to be the part of Zero that Suzaku cannot be.

[aeriolewinters]

Rice-farmers on haywagons better be ready I tells you.

No, Lelouch is now a Llama...

Nunally is Lacus Clyne paralyzed in this case

Ovelia is a better comparison, almost everyone used her... And don't shame Nunnaly's name with that name...


Though I like that Zero will be the symbol of heroism, it's like Vader's mask now, or Even Batman's

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Well the detail that eludes us is Suzaku's ability (inability) to persuade or even come up with a strategy to deal with whatever unpredictable threat that will come...He is a symbol, but if he assumes the Zero role will he need to make decisions for the world that requires more than fleet of foot to fug-sword abilities? Schnizel's will has been totally pwned (Who cries for the "good guy" Schnizel?) and is useless without Zero's leadership and Nunally is Lacus Clyne paralyzed in this case...Xingke dead, Ougi is Sarah Palin, so if some $hit brews all we got in the brains department is Lloyd and Nina coming up with another WMD...Rice-farmers on haywagons better be ready I tells you...

You're forgetting Schniezel's geassed to 'obey' Zero? He doesn't lose any intellect or leadership abilities just because he's forced to serve a master.

As a matter of fact, a Schniezel's who's dedicated to something might even be more fearsome than his nonchalant self prior to being geassed.

[pokeu]

Well, one more clue to cue us in... it is not necessarily true that the geass user has to KILL the code bearer to gain the code.

In turn 15, when Lelouche was talking with his father in the Sword of Akasha, C.C. found V.V. sitting outside the doors. She noticed that he had lost his code, but he wasn't dead (though he was close to it, dark eye shadows and blood all over). And what did he do? He said... "It is because I am you older brother... ", then he passed on.

C.C. wouldn't have... "V.V.... you!..." if he hadn't lost his code.

He lost his code before he died.

And as we can also assume quite accurately... when the code is transfered, the code bearer and the geass user has to somewhat come into direct contact.

Another thing we can tell is that... the code can remain passive, activating only upon the new bearer's death.

Anyway.. one more thing.... why did Charle's want both codes?

If we look at season 1... and start of season 2... we can see that he has been hunting for her. But after taking his brother's code... why did he still want her?

o.O

So we can also know that...

The code does not necessarily need to pass from the geass giver. C.C. remarked that Charles has reached the level where his geass was potent enough for her to hand over the code, but we know he recieved his geass from V.V.

The code can be passed from code bearer to code bearer (because C.C. knew that Charles took V.V.'s code, and she nearly gaver him hers)

So now we come to this...

Even if C.C. did give Lelouche her code... she wouldn't have to die! ... that is an exploitable plot hole to explain Lelouch's revival... which is bad.

But here, we are assuming that Lelouche got his father's code... and from what we know... he can TAKE IT...

V.V. didn't want to give up his code... he was begging for help... saying that "In the end, the only dependable person is my brother"

But it was taken from him. He was too weak to reject Charle's taking of his code.... we can assume that too because... C.C. managed to resist him later on in the episode when she changed her mind.

Sooooo it all boils down to this...

Would Lelouche have taken the opportunity of Charle's choke to take his geass and get him to "DISSAPEAR!" ?

Maybe.

Why do series like these have plot holes? Because they are meant to be exploited -_-;

So here is the summary:

1. Code can pass from Code bearer to Code Bearer.

2. Code can be taken from Code bearers without killing them... (as long as they are unable to resist)

3. Some form of direct contact is required for the code to be passed on... (the pose C.C. n Charles were doing... wonder if he did that to V.V. too?)

4. Geass users who have taken the code must DIE before the code is activated... so it seems. (Well... it was pretty consistent for Charles and C.C., we cann't tell of V.V.'s case.... and Lelouche's looks similar)

5. When your code activates... it seems that that is when you lose your geass. (OK... I know this one is too ambiguous because most geass users who have recieved the code often die before expressing any sort of geass powers.... and Lelouch was going around whole of Britainia doing otherwise...)

6. C.C. could've used Charles long ago to end her experience... but she sook out Lelouche instead and remained in hiding... her true wish wasn't as simple as just dying... because she could have easily gone back to Charles and left Lelouche for Instrumentality anyway... -_-; Charles wasn't going to kill him anyway... he didn't have to.

7. With respect to point 6..... we can tell that C.C. went with Lelouche for more reasons that just to use him -_-;. So... finally... the end... why is she HAPPY!?

Well, argue on those plot holes mentioned above...

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The minute Suzaku's mask falls off or the Ashford Cat makes people double-take with how close it is to Zero, everything will fall apart..And that's when the champion of the rice-farming community R.R. (Real Rice-Farmer) and C.C. (Corn Collector) step into action to makes things right...

Sunrise presents:

Code Geass: R2 Bought The Farm...

Coming to Theatres Luthousand 11 !!!


Seriously though, lulz...But really seriously though yeah you're right...To think the BK's are all cool with fake zero part 2 is hard to take...Diethard would have totally figured out it was a sham and exposed it, that's why they rubbed him out...

LOL that was hilarious! I haven't laughed from reading a forum post in a long time

That is one of the main reasons I support the Lelouch is alive theory. Who would be better than an immortal Lelouch to look after the world? And frankly him sacrificing his life just like that was just stupid. It doesn't make sense. The world could easily go back to how it was. So I think Lelouch must have had a bigger plan. He left the world to Suzaku or Zero for now, and when the world needs him again he will return.

[cjl]

There is no need for additional materials for Geass, since the sequel is already out under the name of Gundam 00. Lelouch, seeing far into the future left plans for a new group called Celestial Being to once again end war by becoming the enemy of the world, thus uniting the world in peace again. The four most powerful mechs that remained were remodeled and given solar generators. That's why Virtue looks just like Mordred.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

You're forgetting Schniezel's geassed to 'obey' Zero? He doesn't lose any intellect or leadership abilities just because he's forced to serve a master.

As a matter of fact, a Schniezel's who's dedicated to something might even be more fearsome than his nonchalant self prior to being geassed.

But does Suzaku have the depth of thought to "control" Schniezel effectively? Say he asks for his advice on something, he's still getting the calculating prince and how does he extract good strategy from him without suppressing his real abilities because of the geass? The point is Suzaku and Nunally are basically gonna control the world now with Schniezel as their puppy, just saying that's alot of conclusive-story faith on a character who has never shown any level of decisive thinking, but maybe that's too much to think about, so maybe we need to start clinging to the hope of a Lulu Rice-Farmer...Eh...

[Aethos]

Meh we can just always believe that Lelouch and C.C. are hanging out on orange farm. Eating pizza with GARangeji and knight of loli.