Romance in Code Geass (take 4)

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

As to Suzaku, he'd have a much harder time moving on. Not only does he have a strong habit of dwelling on the past, even if he got over that, there's a very limited pool of people who know his real identity, and he's too dedicated to his ideals to allow his mask to be breached for the sake of love.

You realize that that is also Kallen right? Not necessarily a mask, though one could argue that she has to also carry around a lie (Lelouch is evil). But she is anything but someone who does not dwell on the past.

Suzaku and Kallen are exact duplicates on opposite sides. They both dwell on the past, they both could have died with or for their loved ones.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Yeah well, he died to protect everyone, let's just not make it sound like it was only about her.
But we all know, that the people he loved more and were close to him, were in his final thoughts as expected, and Kallen held a high position in all this.

in the complete i says she understands what he wanted for her
and he died to give her that (among other things)
any guilt she might feel from that is becosue of how SHE LOVED HIM
and hence any romantic relationship with someone else might feel like its betraying her love for him (from her POV)
that was what i ment
it doesnt matter all that much if he did or didnt love her romanticlly becouse they never actually had a chance to go on dates and spend time at the beach together
they were never in a relationship so it wouldnt be a betrayal of him
it would be a betrayal of her love for him
thats what i ment

i dont know if she'd move on or not
but what i ment was that if she would not move on it would probably be becouse of how SHE felt about him
not hte other way around

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by yvj

You misunderstood I'm not discounting the other pairings. I'm saying from Kallen's outlook she wasn't in the love battle royal that the fandom and the show has placed her in.

So it's not that hard to see that as far as she knows Leouch night have had romantic feelings for her.

However I'm not discounting the fact she could be "I never got an answer but I still love him"

Either way it doesn't diminish her love in the slightest.

Oh no, i did not say that. I stated my general opinion about it.

But yes, true. Kallen is no spy-Lulu-romance. She was by his side most of the time in R2, she fell in love with him and from the moments she shared with him, the way he acted towards her can give her the right to think/feel he shared similar feelings. {in some degree}
Though yes, one thing is true, loving/not loving her back does not matter to her. You love people because you love them, not because they love you as well.

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

in the complete i says she understands what he wanted for her
and he died to give her that (among other things)
any guilt she might feel from that is becosue of how SHE LOVED HIM
and hence any romantic relationship with someone else might feel like its betraying her love for him (from her POV)
that was what i ment
it doesnt matter all that much if he did or didnt love her romanticlly becouse they never actually had a chance to go on dates and spend time at the beach together
they were never in a relationship so it wouldnt be a betrayal of him
it would be a betrayal of her love for him
thats what i ment

i dont know if she'd move on or not
but what i ment was that if she would not move on it would probably be becouse of how SHE felt about him
not hte other way around

Depends. If she believes he did love her, then she can also see it as a betrayal of his love. It really all depends, but I understand your point.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

As to Suzaku, he'd have a much harder time moving on. Not only does he have a strong habit of dwelling on the past, even if he got over that, there's a very limited pool of people who know his real identity, and he's too dedicated to his ideals to allow his mask to be breached for the sake of love.

Kallen has been known to dwell on the past as well just as much as Suzaku. Seeing how she joined the BK for her dead brother and called his name whenever the opportunity arrived.

Kallen is just as dedicated to her ideals as Suzaku is. Her dedication might even be higher than his.

Different circumstances has changed Suzaku's stances on many things, many times in the show.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

I very rarely view any character under the age of 30 as having to worry about moving on. I mean, these people ar going to live for decades more, are you telling me that they will not once, in all that time, consider someone else for a relationship? I mean, they weren't even in a relationship. Plus, Kallen's whole final thing after ZR is about life going on, and being able to move on. In my mind, there is close to 0 chance that she will never seek love again. She'll never forget Lelouch, but no one forgets someone they loved. I feel it would totally destroy her character to just give up on love like that. Not that I think any of the other characters are really a great fit for her, but that doesn't mean no one else is out there.

Actually, the end of the show is portraying a Kallen happy with her life, who moved on (she isn't crying over Lelouch's dead corpse) and still in love with Lelouch.

Both her character song and side stuff add to the fact that Kallen found her happiness while still clinging on her feelings for Lelouch.

What you are assuming could be, if it was hinted at the end of the show; But it wasn't. The show is finished so, if the end is seemingly protraying a Kallen happy alone, if you consider everything happened during the serie for her, and if your consider everything Lelouch done to her, you realize that it's very likely for her to move forward while keeping Lelouch as "her only one"

Actually, that's the future which is implied by the show, the end, and the side stuff. Esepcially when you see how Kallen can be stuck on the past (her obsession over Naoto's dreams).

Do you see Suzaku falling in love with someone ? I have an hard time to imagine that, maybe Nunnally, one day BUT nothing is pointing toward this direction, so this "maybe" is for fanstuff.
It's exactly the same with kallen; Yvj made a very good analogy, in the sense that while Kallen and Suzaku are really similar, noone is talking about Suzaku x Someone; Even though Suzaku is close to Nunnally, that they share a lot of things (like the truth ? Childhood ? Etc Etc) noone is implying a Suzaku/Nunally.

Kallen doesn't have, close to her, someone with who she could share everything, and still she if amazingly shipped with every guy of the show.

Suzaku/Kallen is the most viable option; Most viable than the one with a womanizer à la Gino who become the better choice to Kallen because he said she was his type (We are talking about Gino there. GINO. The lady guy...)

And since the ending doesn't point toward a Kallen/Someone, and SINCE itr's the end, I'm betting on Kallen as a widow.

Now, Kallen x Gino is possible. Just like it's possible for Kallen, after this departure while she was late at school, to have had some car accident and to have died a few minutes after the end.

Yeah, everything is possible actually
Edit for others : kallen chara song *coughThankyouforyourlovecough*...heh...she believes he loved her.
Though it doesn't matter for the move on/Stuck on lelouch part...those are her feelings which motivates her, not Lelouch's ones.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

I very rarely view any character under the age of 30 as having to worry about moving on. I mean, these people ar going to live for decades more, are you telling me that they will not once, in all that time, consider someone else for a relationship? I mean, they weren't even in a relationship. Plus, Kallen's whole final thing after ZR is about life going on, and being able to move on. In my mind, there is close to 0 chance that she will never seek love again. She'll never forget Lelouch, but no one forgets someone they loved. I feel it would totally destroy her character to just give up on love like that. Not that I think any of the other characters are really a great fit for her, but that doesn't mean no one else is out there.

You have to make me understand why it wouldn't destroy Suzaku's character never to find love again but it would Kallen's?

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i dont know if she'd move on or not
but what i ment was that if she would not move on it would probably be becouse of how SHE felt about him
not hte other way around

Well yeah, that is given. I mean, people that lose their loved ones stay alone forever? Some of them yes, some of them not. But this is not because they think their "loved one" would feel betrayed if they went to embark on another relationship with someone else. This is silly.
It is exactly what you said, it is because of their own feelings. People charas are different. Some feel the need to be alone, they can't move on. Some others do.
In Kallen's occasion, i can't know for sure, but it is more likely that she won't want to move on rather than moving on. {considering her chara development, unless she gets a lobotomy or something}

[SonOfHeaven]

I look at it in a way that Lelouch wasn't a simple case for Kallen of a first love. His death gave Kallen almost everything she initially was fighting for(ZR wasn't only about Kallen), she now seems peaceful. If Kallen never found out what Lelouch was trying to accomplish, I'll say 100% she moves on. Would I be shocked she would give someone a chance at having a romantic relationship with her, not at all. Though I would expect Kallen would break it off eventually. Comparing whomever to Lelouch, probably realizing this isn't what she truly wanted . And I don't expect Kallen to be the one seeking a romantic relationship with someone else.

Also I do believe Lelouch loved more than more girl. People can easily interpret all his scenes with the ladies in a romantic sense( Don't see how anyone can say one of the three ladies scenes couldn't have given off a romantic feel to them .For instance, I don't see why Lelouch couldn't simply answer Kallen's question. A simple you're a friend, a comrade would be easy.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

I look it at in a way that Lelouch wasn't a simple case for Kallen of a first love. His death gave Kallen almost everything she initially was fighting for. If Kallen never found out what Lelouch was trying to accomplish, I'll say 100% she moves on. Would I be shocked she would give someone a chance at having a romantic relationship with her, not at all. Though I would expect Kallen would break it off eventually. Comparing whomever to Lelouch, probably realizing this isn't what she truly wanted . However, I don't expect Kallen to be the one seeking a romantic relationship with someone else.

Also I do believe Lelouch loved more than more girl. People can easily interpret all his scenes with the ladies in a romantic sense( Don't see how anyone can say one of the three ladies scenes couldn't have given off a romantic feel to them .For instance, I don't see why Lelouch couldn't simply answer Kallen's question. A simple you're a friend, a comrade would be easy.

But yeah. I mean, it's been said, that you never forget your first love. Add to Kallen's first love, that he made her ideals/dreams come true, which was the constant in Kallen's life, after her brother died.
Whether he loved her back as well, is kinda debatable, [i mean in a whole sense, cause the kiss scene is not that much debatable i guess] though i believe in some point he did love her back. And well, watching how Lelouch died as well, that is gonna leave a huge mark in Kallen's heart. That "mark" though, it came to be a good one, as it was obvious from the ending.
But yeah, son i do agree with you there as well. I too believe that Kallen won't be the one seeking by her own a relationship with someone else.

[Akakishi]

incoquote:
You love people because you love them, not because they love you as well.

You can also love people because they love you as well

BMW ermm ^^ BTW, in R2 I agree she's with him a lot of time (all the time in R2 ermm ^^)
She also falls in love with him already before as Zero or even more much fairly delightfully on him.
It comes to love lethargically, slow, slowly and love for the guy backside the mask of the KKD's leader (also know as Zero for slowly minds)
Her feelings changes from admirts to love by how he acts as a gentleman (putting his jacket on her whan she cosplays as a bunny for example) and also by his distress showing his weakness when he wants her to comfort him

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Akakishi

incoquote:
You love people because you love them, not because they love you as well.

You can also love people because they love you as well

BMW ermm ^^ BTW, in R2 I agree she's with him a lot of time (all the time in R2 ermm ^^)
She also falls in love with him already before as Zero or even more much fairly delightfully on him.
It comes to love lethargically, slow, slowly and love for the guy backside the mask of the KKD's leader (also know as Zero for the slowly mind)
Her feelings changes from admirts to love by how he acts as a gentleman (putting his jacket on her whan she cosplays as a bunny for example) and also by his distress showing his weakness when he wants her to comfort him

I mean, it is not required to love only people that love you as well.

Actually, not really. You do not fall with a guy just because he puts his coat around you or because he helped you carry your heavy super-market bags to home for example. lawl
This was more just Kallen's cute reaction. xD

[Akakishi]

[Q1 uote]This was more just Kallen's cute reaction. xD[/quote]

Moreover, Lelouch's very attracting beauty guy then

Thus, she can even more love him for that (I mean puts coat/carring heavy supmarks bags ...)

Spoiler for or, besides, for his coat, specs::

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by yvj

You have to make me understand why it wouldn't destroy Suzaku's character never to find love again but it would Kallen's?

Because Suzaku is stuck as Zero for the rest of his life. So unless he finds someone who doesn't mind the mask, or hooks up with one of the very few people who know who he is, he's kind of doomed. While he and Kallen both are very dedicated to ideals, Kallen's ideals don't currently prevent her from finding love, Suzaku's do, or at the very least significantly hamper it.

Actually, the end of the show is portraying a Kallen happy with her life, who moved on (she isn't crying over Lelouch's dead corpse) and still in love with Lelouch.

Both her character song and side stuff add to the fact that Kallen found her happiness while still clinging on her feelings for Lelouch.

What you are assuming could be, if it was hinted at the end of the show; But it wasn't. The show is finished so, if the end is seemingly protraying a Kallen happy alone, if you consider everything happened during the serie for her, and if your consider everything Lelouch done to her, you realize that it's very likely for her to move forward while keeping Lelouch as "her only one"

Actually, that's the future which is implied by the show, the end, and the side stuff. Esepcially when you see how Kallen can be stuck on the past (her obsession over Naoto's dreams).

Do you see Suzaku falling in love with someone ? I have an hard time to imagine that, maybe Nunnally, one day BUT nothing is pointing toward this direction, so this "maybe" is for fanstuff.
It's exactly the same with kallen; Yvj made a very good analogy, in the sense that while Kallen and Suzaku are really similar, noone is talking about Suzaku x Someone; Even though Suzaku is close to Nunnally, that they share a lot of things (like the truth ? Childhood ? Etc Etc) noone is implying a Suzaku/Nunally.

Kallen doesn't have, close to her, someone with who she could share everything, and still she if amazingly shipped with every guy of the show.

Suzaku/Kallen is the most viable option; Most viable than the one with a womanizer à la Gino who become the better choice to Kallen because he said she was his type (We are talking about Gino there. GINO. The lady guy...)

And since the ending doesn't point toward a Kallen/Someone, and SINCE itr's the end, I'm betting on Kallen as a widow.

Now, Kallen x Gino is possible. Just like it's possible for Kallen, after this departure while she was late at school, to have had some car accident and to have died a few minutes after the end.

I'm not trying to ship Kallen with anyone, or saying that she'll definitely end up with someone, I'm saying that she will not spend her entire life living alone, looking fondly back on Lelouch. She can still have another relationship without forgetting him, and I think she would. She's got her whole life ahead of her, and I don't think she's the sort who would refuse to love again, you stated yourself that she moved on, while still loving Lelouch, and nothing in that prevents her from falling in love again, be it 5, 10, or 20 years down the line. No, it's never stated that she'll fall in love, but she hasn't declared that she'll stay celibate either, and I don't think she would.

[bladeofdarkness]

i recently rewatched ep 9 without subs (dont ask)
and i noticed that the scene between them is actually deeper then i viewed it when watching with the subs
nevermind the fact that she'd lying on top of him (thats not the main thing)
its what he actually says
becosue i couldnt read i had to really listen to their tone of voice
and when she asks him why he came back lelouch's tone of voice changes to a much more personal tone then i have ever heard between them
he really is asking her to come back to ashford with him as a personal request
he isnt asking her "do you want to or would like to go back to ashford with me"
he is litteraly asking her to go back with him "when this is over, will you go back to ashford with me"
he is saying "i want you there with me" (from his tone of voice)
its becouse ep 7 showed him that the "better kinder world" that he had always wanted to make is something that he had already had in ashford (the whole happines is glass speech)

and C.C interupts just as he is about to tell her about the shift in his way of thinking
which sucks becosue if she had actually heard that what he wants is his view of a happy life in ashford
she would have been told that she is part of that life
which would have kinda broken up almost any barrier between them
even if you dont view it as "love"
he is basiclly about to tell her that he knows what he wants in life
and that he wants (needs) her to be part of that life

[Nogitsune]

I agree that Kallen might find someone else to love, but I don't see how that's important.

There are romantic people who only love only once or twice in their life, simply because they are "picky".
And yes, I think Kallen is the "picky" type. She needed one year to truly fall for Lelouch, and Lelouch is an amazing guy - one of a kind, someone who even managed to get a cynical immortal witch to actually give a damn again.
Maybe a more mature Gino would do, or Suzaku, but if I was Kallen, I would always compare potential boyfriends to Lelouch... and then sigh wistfully and settle for a casual friendship for the time being.
Kallen doesn't seem the type to me who needs a husband and children to be happy. If a good catch comes her way, she'll certainly get him, but other than that?
One kiss from Lelouch should very well make up for everything she might miss. xD

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

Because Suzaku is stuck as Zero for the rest of his life. So unless he finds someone who doesn't mind the mask, or hooks up with one of the very few people who know who he is, he's kind of doomed. While he and Kallen both are very dedicated to ideals, Kallen's ideals don't currently prevent her from finding love, Suzaku's do, or at the very least significantly hamper it.

Not only does Suzaku have Nunally who knows who he is and could possibly seek him him out. (Which is 10x the foundation of Kallen any any other male lead.) It's not like Suzaku's never going to be around people ever again. Zero != robot.

Let me speculate here....Twenty years down the road. Kallen and Gino meet up in an Ashford Reunion.

Huh interesting........

Twenty years down the road Suzaku and Nunnaly meet up on the anniversary of Lelouch's death.

OR

Ten years down road in a battlefield. The Hero Zero appears and saves a female fighter. She thanks him.......Her smile reminds him of Euphie and she is enamored by the mysterious hero.

Fanfiction you say? You're absolutely right.

But Suzaku being Zero is nowhere near the obstacle as Suzaku's feelings for Euphie.

My point is if there is room for love in Suzaku's heart for another than he will find it. The same goes for Kallen equally.

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I agree that Kallen might find someone else to love, but I don't see how that's important.
There are romantic people who only love only once or twice in their life, simply because they are "picky".
And yes, I think Kallen is the "picky" type. She needed one year to truly fall for Lelouch, and Lelouch is an amazing guy - one of a kind, someone who even managed to get a cynical immortal witch to actually give a damn again.
Maybe a more mature Gino would do, or Suzaku, but if I was Kallen, I would always compare potential boyfriends to Lelouch... and then sigh wistfully and settle for a casual friendship for the time being.
Kallen seems not the type to me who needs a husband and children to be happy. If a good catch comes her way, she'll certainly get him, but other than that?
One kiss from Lelouch should very well make up for everything she might miss. xD

I would call Shenanigans on Kallen being picky, she had no idea that Lelouch and Zero were the same person for all of the first season, and she had a total bodyguard crush on Zero for most of that time. Once she knew they were the same, she freaked a little, then spent a year working to get him back, then they danced around the issue for a while during the time between episode 9 and when she got captured, and after that, there was just no time for anything to develop, and after ep 19, he was dedicated to ZR and had to keep her away. She hardly seems picky to me.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

I would call Shenanigans on Kallen being picky, she had no idea that Lelouch and Zero were the same person for all of the first season, and she had a total bodyguard crush on Zero for most of that time. Once she knew they were the same, she freaked a little, then spent a year working to get him back, then they danced around the issue for a while during the time between episode 9 and when she got captured, and after that, there was just no time for anything to develop, and after ep 19, he was dedicated to ZR and had to keep her away. She hardly seems picky to me.

Not picky... "picky".
I just can't find a better word. xD
Like... uhm... she needs a certain kind of guy in order to fall for him. Someone very admirable who shares her ideals.
Her crush on Zero was, in my opinion, just that: a crush - one that was based on hero worship.
But she knew Lelouch as Zero, and she knew him as Lelouch... and both sides certainly had something you don't find in many people.

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by yvj

Not only does Suzaku have Nunally who knows who he is and could possibly seek him him out. (Which is 10x the foundation of Kallen any any other male lead.) It's not like Suzaku's never going to be around people ever again. Zero = robot.

But Suzaku being Zero is nowhere near the obstacle as Suzaku's feelings for Euphie.

My point is if there is room for love in Suzaku's heart for another than he will find it. The same goes for Kallen equally.

I'll accept that there is a possibility for Suzaku to love again, but it is not the same as Kallen's, as he has far more obstacles in his path than she does. They are not identical people, and they are not in the same circumstances.