Romance in Code Geass (take 4)

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by yvj

Not only does Suzaku have Nunally who knows who he is and could possibly seek him him out. (Which is 10x the foundation of Kallen any any other male lead.) It's not like Suzaku's never going to be around people ever again. Zero = robot.

Let me speculate here....Twenty years down the road. Kallen and Gino meet up in an Ashford Reunion.

Huh interesting........

Twenty years down the road Suzaku and Nunnaly meet up on the anniversary of Lelouch's death.

OR

Ten years down road in a battlefield. The Hero Zero appears and saves a female fighter. She thanks him.......Her smile reminds him of Euphie and she is enamored by the mysterious hero.

Fanfiction you say? You're absolutely right.

But Suzaku being Zero is nowhere near the obstacle as Suzaku's feelings for Euphie.

My point is if there is room for love in Suzaku's heart for another than he will find it. The same goes for Kallen equally.

Good points. And i am just gonna say, it is harder to let someone go when he/she dies a peaceful way and other when you see him being murdered or something. {this applies more to Euphie but i guess it was not Kallen's cup of tea to see Lelouch dying in front of her eyes as well even if she knows he planned all of this}

And another simple expression that applies to a lot of posts around this section: Double standards. It is quite simple actually.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

I'll accept that there is a possibility for Suzaku to love again, but it is not the same as Kallen's, as he has far more obstacles in his path than she does. They are not identical people, and they are not in the same circumstances.

Not to mention that Suzaku has a unhealthy tendency to dwell on the past and beat himself up over it.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

Because Suzaku is stuck as Zero for the rest of his life. So unless he finds someone who doesn't mind the mask, or hooks up with one of the very few people who know who he is, he's kind of doomed. While he and Kallen both are very dedicated to ideals, Kallen's ideals don't currently prevent her from finding love, Suzaku's do, or at the very least significantly hamper it.



I'm not trying to ship Kallen with anyone, or saying that she'll definitely end up with someone, I'm saying that she will not spend her entire life living alone, looking fondly back on Lelouch. She can still have another relationship without forgetting him, and I think she would. She's got her whole life ahead of her, and I don't think she's the sort who would refuse to love again, you stated yourself that she moved on, while still loving Lelouch, and nothing in that prevents her from falling in love again, be it 5, 10, or 20 years down the line. No, it's never stated that she'll fall in love, but she hasn't declared that she'll stay celibate either, and I don't think she would.

You seem to forget an important point of my post: Nunnally.
Suzaku is with Nunnally, Nunnaly who knows everything and share the same despair than him over Lelouch and everything.

Suzaku with Nunally is way more likely than Kallen with random guy #18. And still, people keep denying a Suzaku/Nunnally relationship, because they think that Suzaku will stay Euphie's man forever.

So how can we imagine Kallen with another guy while she doesn't have a "Nunally" near of her ?
Sha can move on, but if she does, it will be with a guy out of this mess, and, just like people already said, the guy would have try, cause Kallen hit me as the type who is able to live happy alone while keeping her feelings for a certain someone.

But since the end doesn't seems to lean toward this idea, I think Kallen and Suzaku whill share the same destiny, Suzaku, because he had to stay Zero, and will stay infatued with Euphie forever, and Kallen because she loved the guy who changed her life deeply, an because her happiness doesn't seems to have any need for a guy. Everything can happen, and like Sky said, ponies can fly. But the end of the show doesn't lean toward a pony can fly road, just like it doesn't lean toward a Kallenx Random guy #18.

She can, but from what se saw, it isn't a requirement for her.

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Not picky... "picky".
I just can't find a better word. xD
Like... uhm... she needs a certain kind of guy in order to fall for him. Someone very admirable who shares her ideals.
Her crush on Zero was, in my opinion, just that: a crush - one that was based on hero worship.
But she knew Lelouch as Zero, and she knew him as Lelouch... and both sides certainly had something you don't find in many people.

That's a fair assessment, that she has fairly high standards, and Lelouch would probably raise those standards for any other guy, but that just means, to me, that she is unlikely to have 'frivolous' relationships, but I still think that she's very likely to find someone else, someday. But probably not Gino.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

You seem to forget an important point of my post: Nunnally.
Suzaku is with Nunnally, Nunnaly who knows everything and share the same despair than him over Lelouch and everything.

Suzaku with Nunally is way more likely than Kallen with random guy #18. And still, people keep denying a Suzaku/Nunnally relationship, because they think that Suzaku will stay Euphie's man forever.

And because SuzakuxNunally seems even more wrong to some people (-> me, for example) than LelouchxNunally. xD
But we all have our own perception of the characters.

But since the end doesn't seems to lean toward this idea, I think Kallen and Suzaku whill share the same destiny, Suzaku, because he had to stay Zero, and will stay infatued with Euphie forever, and Kallen because she loved the guy who changed her life deeply, an because her happiness doesn't seems to have any need for a guy.

Agreed.

She can, but from what se saw, it isn't a requirement for her.

*nods her head*

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

That's a fair assessment, that she has fairly high standards, and Lelouch would probably raise those standards for any other guy, but that just means, to me, that she is unlikely to have 'frivolous' relationships, but I still think that she's very likely to find someone else, someday. But probably not Gino.

Yeah, it's certainly possible, but I still think that Lelouch might have raised her standards a bit too high for that.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

I'll accept that there is a possibility for Suzaku to love again, but it is not the same as Kallen's, as he has far more obstacles in his path than she does. They are not identical people, and they are not in the same circumstances.

Far more obstacles? I don't see it.

There's only one obstacle that is different and that is Suzaku is dedicated to being Zero. He's basically an angstier version of Batman.

Their circumstance are the same in regards of losing the person they love. Whether of not they fall in love again is not based on outside circumstances but how they feel inside, at their core.

It was hammered home in the last episode the Kallen and Suzaku are two sides of the same coin. Suzaku is just as equally to move as Kallen.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by yvj

It was hammered home in the last episode the Kallen and Suzaku are two sides of the same coin. Suzaku is just as equally to move as Kallen.

*points towards Suzaku's unhealthy tendency to deny himself happiness*
I disagree. o.o

[SonOfHeaven]

Very simple to me. Kallen can move on but it doesn't mean it'll last very long at all. Not many people would be able to compare to Lelouch. We know how her brother's death affacted her, imagine Lelouch. Once again Kallen doesn't seem like the type to be looking for a romantic relationship. Romance never seemed liked a big deal to Kallen until Lelouch came along. Her "crush" on Zero was based on loyalty. About making her brothers dream come true like she said during turn 22.

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

You seem to forget an important point of my post: Nunnally.
Suzaku is with Nunnally, Nunnaly who knows everything and share the same despair than him over Lelouch and everything.

Suzaku with Nunally is way more likely than Kallen with random guy #18. And still, people keep denying a Suzaku/Nunnally relationship, because they think that Suzaku will stay Euphie's man forever.

So how can we imagine Kallen with another guy while she doesn't have a "Nunally" near of her ?
Sha can move on, but if she does, it will be with a guy out of this mess, and, just like people already said, the guy would have try, cause Kallen hit me as the type who is able to live happy alone while keeping her feelings for a certain someone.

But since the end doesn't seems to lean toward this idea, I think Kallen and Suzaku whill share the same destiny, Suzaku, because he had to stay Zero, and will stay infatued with Euphie forever, and Kallen because she loved the guy who changed her life deeply, an because her happiness doesn't seems to have any need for a guy. Everything can happen, and like Sky said, ponies can fly. But the end of the show doesn't lean toward a pony can fly road, just like it doesn't lean toward a Kallenx Random guy #18.

She can, but from what se saw, it isn't a requirement for her.

Sorrysorry, I'll address Nunnaly now. The issue with Nunnaly is that I just don't think there's any relationship there. It's possible, but I don't really notice any attraction between them. Admittedly, Euphie pretty much killed off any chance of anything developing for the duration of the series, so it's possible it would develop, I just don't see their relationship as anything more than friends.

And (this is not to you, but in general) I don't think Kallen NEEDS a relationship to be happy but I don't think she'd just refuse to consider it either. And I don't think she would use her feelings for Lelouch as an excuse to avoid one. No, I don't think Kallen is "required" to be in a relationship, but i think it's very likely that she eventually would be.

And another simple expression that applies to a lot of posts around this section: Double standards. It is quite simple actually.

They are not "double standards" They are two different people in two different situations, it's silly to judge them exactly the same. Yes, they have several similarities, but they are not some sort of opposite-sex clone of eachother, and even if they were, they are in different situations.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

And because SuzakuxNunally seems even more wrong to some people (-> me, for example) than LelouchxNunally. xD

Are you serious or is this a joke?

Loli: In the future, Lulu might reincarnate into a sandwich that Kallen eats from a junk-food-shop. Cause hell, this is "everything can happen" card line right?
If we want to be realistic, then no. Not anything can happen, otherwise we can keep joking and going around circles and circles using technically, a card-line that leaves everything open.
Speculations can be valid, only if we consider character's characteristics and actions and taking into account how the series ended.
Suzu, Nunally, Kallen and C.C who got the ZR plan are the persons that is really difficult to move on. Especially with characters they showed zero-ignore-you interaction in the show.

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by yvj

Far more obstacles? I don't see it.

There's only one obstacle that is different and that is Suzaku is dedicated to being Zero. He's basically an angstier version of Batman.

Their circumstance are the same in regards of losing the person they love. Whether of not they fall in love again is not based on outside circumstances but how they feel inside, at their core.

It was hammered home in the last episode the Kallen and Suzaku are two sides of the same coin. Suzaku is just as equally to move as Kallen.

God, angstier batman.. that's reaching Evangelion levels of Angstiness. And Nogtstune beat me to it, but Suzaku has a history of sabotaging his own chances at happiness because he's dedicated to a higher goal. THe idea that Kallen and Suzaku are two sides of the same coin has some merit, but that doesn't mean that they're the same person. They will move on differently, live differently, and love differently. Eventually, they will be like two sides of different coins, and then after that, maybe Kallen will be like a dollar bill or something, while Suzaku still lives on the front of a quarter. People change, and even if they are at a very similar point, they will move away from it in different directions.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Are you serious or is this a joke?

I'm serious.
Because with Lelouch, I'm fairly sure their relationship wouldn't change much.
But with Suzaku... errr, I can't imagine them doing anything beyond kissing - if anything -, even though it would probably be there in this case. To me, however, they, too, are like family, and...
Oh well. I guess it comes all down to personal taste.
But I, personally, really don't see any possible romance there.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

*points towards Suzaku's unhealthy tendency to deny himself happiness*
I disagree. o.o

I see your point.

However let's look at it another way for a sec. Kallen has never reached the point where she was in the position to feel "this all my fault"/ "I should have stopped this with my own strength" on MULTIPLE occasions.

Suzaku had much more to grieve for.

His father.
Euphie's death
A crapload more etc etc

The universe has crapped on Suzaku allot.

Let's say Kallen felt that Lelouch or her brother died because of her. Or that the Freya over Japan was her fault don't you think she'd be all about atonement?

What the last episode stated was that Kallen and Suzaku essentially have the same mental state on life and justice it's that they chose different paths towards the same goal.

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

God, angstier batman.. that's reaching Evangelion levels of Angstiness. And Nogtstune beat me to it, but Suzaku has a history of sabotaging his own chances at happiness because he's dedicated to a higher goal. THe idea that Kallen and Suzaku are two sides of the same coin has some merit, but that doesn't mean that they're the same person. They will move on differently, live differently, and love differently. Eventually, they will be like two sides of different coins, and then after that, maybe Kallen will be like a dollar bill or something, while Suzaku still lives on the front of a quarter. People change, and even if they are at a very similar point, they will move away from it in different directions.

My point in the end is this

Suzaku denying himself happiness = Kallen believing she doesn't need someone else to be happy.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by yvj

I see your point.

However let's look at it another way for a sec. Kallen has never reached the point where she was in the position to feel "this all my fault"/ "I should have stopped this with my own strength" on MULTIPLE occasions.

Suzaku had much more to grieve for.

His father.
Euphie's death
A crapload more etc etc

The universe has crapped on Suzaku allot.

Let's say Kallen felt that Lelouch or her brother died because of her. Or that the Freya over Japan was her fault don't you think she'd be all about atonement?

What the last episode stated was that Kallen and Suzaku essentially have the same mental state on life and justice it's that they chose different paths towards the same goal.

Hm... I see your point, but I don't think Kallen would have been as bad as Suzaku.
They may be very similar, but they are still two different people - and Kallen certainly has not been traumatizes by killing her own father as a mere child.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I'm serious.
Because with Lelouch, I'm fairly sure their relationship wouldn't change much.
But with Suzaku... errr, I can't imagine them doing anything beyond kissing - if anything -, even though it would probably be there in this case. To me, however, they, too, are like family, and...
Oh well. I guess it comes all down to personal taste.
But I, personally, really don't see any possible romance there.

And you can imagine Nana-chan with Lelouch doing this kind of stuff? Well anyway, to each his own i guess. Not a fan of incest.

@Jamie Kordek:: I guess people change at times, but i think Kallen and Suzaku's characters are defined by the ZR, Lulu's sacrifice. I believe this moment, had the biggest impact on their lives and this is why, i can't see them changing {much at least} from how the series ended.

ETA: @yvj:: Or Kallen being happy with the way she is in the end. She does seem perfectly fine. She does not need anything more.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

And you can imagine Nana-chan with Lelouch doing this kind of stuff? Well anyway, to each his own i guess. Not a fan of incest.

No! xD
That's what I meant with "their relationship probably wouldn't change much". Lelouch would never... ugh.
Incest in general doesn't bother me, but... no! xD

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by yvj

I see your point.

However let's look at it another way for a sec. Kallen has never reached the point where she was in the position to feel "this all my fault"/ "I should have stopped this with my own strength" on MULTIPLE occasions.

Suzaku had much more to grieve for.

His father.
Euphie's death
A crapload more etc etc

The universe has crapped on Suzaku allot.

Let's say Kallen felt that Lelouch or her brother died because of her. Or that the Freya over Japan was her fault don't you think she'd be all about atonement?

What the last episode stated was that Kallen and Suzaku essentially have the same mental state on life and justice it's that they chose different paths towards the same goal.



My point in the end is this

Suzaku denying himself happiness = Kallen believing she doesn't need happiness

Except for that last statement, I completely agree with you. but just because Suzaku denies himself happiness, I don't know why Kallen would do/believe the same thing. Also, we're trending towards equating a Relationship with Happiness.

Edit: and incorrupts, I'm not saying Kallen, at the point she is at right now, needs, or even wants a relationship, but I do think that as her life goes on, she will, without needing it, maybe even without seeking it out, find another person to love.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Jaime Kordek

Except for that last statement, I completely agree with you. but just because Suzaku denies himself happiness, I don't know why Kallen would do/believe the same thing. Also, we're trending towards equating a Relationship with Happiness.

*nods her had to that*
I don't see how Kallen, of all people, needs to marry and have children (or something like that) in order to be happy.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

ETA: @yvj:: Or Kallen being happy with the way she is in the end. She does seem perfectly fine. She does not need anything more.[/FONT][/B]

I should clarify I did mean

Suzaku denying himself happiness = Kallen believing she doesn't need someone else to be happy.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

*nods her had to that*
I don't see how Kallen, of all people, needs to marry and have children (or something like that) in order to be happy.

I agree with you

[Jaime Kordek]

Originally Posted by yvj

I should clarify I did mean

Suzaku denying himself happiness = Kallen believing she doesn't need someone else to be happy.

I just don't see how the two are related. I can accept that Kallen doesn't need someone else to be happy, and I can accept that Suzaku denies himself happiness, but they are two separate things that have nothing to do with eachother.