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Nobodyman9 · 2009-01-28, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvj

Isn't it funny that its almost impossible to get a conversation going in this thread unless Kallen is involved XD

And who's fault is that? Huh? Huh?

Anyway, I'll admit I was, and to an extent still am, one of the ones who wanted Nina to die a horrible death. But, well, I don't know. I mean, if this is her punishment to live with her unfulfilled desire for Euphie, than that's fine by me. I just wish they had been more on whether or not she got over her bigotry (she probably didn't)

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-28, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

And who's fault is that? Huh? Huh?

Anyway, I'll admit I was, and to an extent still am, one of the ones who wanted Nina to die a horrible death. But, well, I don't know. I mean, if this is her punishment to live with her unfulfilled desire for Euphie, than that's fine by me. I just wish they had been more on whether or not she got over her bigotry (she probably didn't)

I seriously doubt the bigotry was her fault; she did live in a society where it would have been drummed into her from birth.

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/53211/10167531/88/

^ Analysis of Nina's actions I posted earlier today.

yvj · 2009-01-28, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

And who's fault is that? Huh? Huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Anyway, I'll admit I was, and to an extent still am, one of the ones who wanted Nina to die a horrible death. But, well, I don't know. I mean, if this is her punishment to live with her unfulfilled desire for Euphie, than that's fine by me. I just wish they had been more on whether or not she got over her bigotry (she probably didn't)

I don't think she got over her racism. I don't recall if there was any real sign that she did. And I actually think it's pretty interesting that she didn't. With stuff like Guildford coming back that actually felt real.

What I find mysterious is that she had Milly, Shirley, and to some extent Kallen running around her and Euphie was the one (and only one) she had eyes for.

Though I did find her scenes with Kanon more touching than they should have been.

Nobodyman9 · 2009-01-28, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Bear

I seriously doubt the bigotry was her fault; she did live in a society where it would have been drummed into her from birth.

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/53211/10167531/88/

^ Analysis of Nina's actions I posted earlier today.

We all have to be held accountable for our actions. But I guess you're right in saying that Nina wasn't exactly an exception to the rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvj

I don't think she got over her racism. I don't recall if there was any real sign that she did. And I actually think it's pretty interesting that she didn't. With stuff like Guildford coming back that actually felt real.

What I find mysterious is that she had Milly, Shirley, and to some extent Kallen running around her and Euphie was the one (and only one) she had eyes for.

Though I did find her scenes with Kanon more touching than they should have been.

I agree that, in a way, it is kind of interesting how she never got over it. Cause in real life, it is very hard for people to change their beliefs/preconceptions.

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 00:10

On Nina:

http://jusrecht.livejournal.com/5308.html

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvj

Oh for various reasons most people believe 100% that Suzaku won't "move on" and find someone else.

For various reasons the fandom is kind of split on whether Kallen would "move one" and find someone else. (I'd like to think the poem would decrease it a bit but que sera sera)

But what about Nina? Is she ever getting over Euphie?

Y'know this show has a lot of people who hang onto lost loved ones. Charles didn't seem to get over Marianne at all either,

Bah.......she can stick with her irradiated table shaped nukes.

As for Nina's racism being natural.......her classmates aren't racist. Why couldn't she learn that from them?

I doubt their upbringing was any different from hers. Heck, Milly being a noble, she should be the most bigotted of the lot but did she turn Suzaku away?

Levy · 2009-01-29, 05:11

Nina make a hard comparison with the aforementioned characters because, unlike them, she was in love with her idea of Euphie, more than with the real Euphie.
It's sad, an this may sound very arrogant from me, but I think that her love for Euphie was more an illusion than anything else.

So, I don't know - not caring/liking Nina enough ^^; - but I think that it might be easier for her to actually move on. It seems that after the FREJA incident she's matured enough to have a more critical position toward her old self, her infatuation toward Euphie included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

As for Nina's racism being natural.......her classmates aren't racist. Why couldn't she learn that from them?

I doubt their upbringing was any different from hers. Heck, Milly being a noble, she should be the most bigotted of the lot but did she turn Suzaku away?

On this, it could be that Milly, Shirley and Rivalz are more the ecception to the rule than Nina.

The things that Lord Bear pointed out makes sense indeed, and it's a more common behaviour that it should (the guy so fond of bashing Nina in his fanfic was rather pathetic, btw..)
However, I mostly agree with Nobodyman, all of this doesn't justify her, because the first one to be reponsible for our doings is ourselves. Same goes for Rollo: his behaviours originates with something wrong coming from the outside, but he still held the responsability of not having been able to fight all of this back.

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levy

On this, it could be that Milly, Shirley and Rivalz are more the ecception to the rule than Nina.

I agree with this. Also, Milly's family fell out of favour with Britannia, which isn't going to endear their society to her any. We don't know about any of their backgrounds in relation to prejudice; my observations were based on Nina's actions sounding far more like someone who had been sheltered for years and was convinced that Elevens were bad people. It seems as though she almost never went out in public places where Elevens might be due to that fear, whereas Shirley, Milly and Rivalz did; so they would naturally have a more rounded view of what was actually going on. Most of the other Eleven-hating Britannians in the show (such as the pushups guy) were deliberately portrayed in a different light to Nina, aggressive and oppresive rather than scared and xenophobic.

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 05:28

Still, making a nuke to drop on people for no good reason is really pushing the limit.

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 05:35

Didn't she make it with the intention to stop Zero? Zero was a terrorist at the time and she was hired by a Britannian Prince to contribute to the war. She thought she was doing a good thing by creating it, which is why it was such a shock to her that it was used on the Settlement, rather than during a battle in an open area. It wasn't for no reason, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do either. Ultimately, Schneizel was the one who decided to employ it on a city, rather than reserving it for the Damocles vs Avalon battle.

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Bear

Didn't she make it with the intention to stop Zero? Zero was a terrorist at the time and she was hired by a Britannian Prince to contribute to the war. She thought she was doing a good thing by creating it, which is why it was such a shock to her that it was used on the Settlement, rather than during a battle in an open area. It wasn't for no reason, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do either. Ultimately, Schneizel was the one who decided to employ it on a city, rather than reserving it for the Damocles vs Avalon battle.

Well, I suppose given her instability how she made that destruction but a weapon, that is for all intents and purposes a city killer made for the purposes of killing one man and controlled by someone who is one of the most dangerous and extreme of the Britannian royals. Yeah, smart choice there.

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 05:40

How could she have known how dangerous/extreme he was? He appeared completely serene for most of the series.

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Bear

How could she have known how dangerous/extreme he was? He appeared completely serene for most of the series.

Even then, she never stopped to think what was the rationale behind employing an elephant gun to kill a fly?

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 05:55

Zero had an army behind him.

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Bear

Zero had an army behind him.

If someone today suggests nuking Hizbollah, smart move as that might sound, it will still kick up a shitstorm.

Lord_Bear · 2009-01-29, 06:08

FLEIJA was created for war, as it was obvious that Zero would attempt to go directly to war with Britannia. It was Schneizel's decision to use it in an inapropriate environment. Hezbolla aren't going to war with America.

Levy · 2009-01-29, 06:17

It doesn't matter where and when it will be used, FREJA still will cause a huge loss of human lifes, more than any ordinary weapon, and Nina, although being the designer of the bomb, doesn't seems to have realized the full extent of this untill it happened for real.

So, she's not responsible of not having understood that Schneizel was an ass with world domination issues - it's more than reasonable that she doesn't, but she is responsible to have not understood the damage that her brainchild was going to cause.

Anyway, we are OT. If you want to keep the discussion up, move it to the generic discussion thread.

and, just to keep this on topic, I remember that by the time of ep.22 there was a usual 'Woa woa Rivalz/Nina! *_*' thing on Lj..
..well, I didn't like that XD

Bonzo · 2009-01-29, 06:20

I solved the Rivalz/Nina mystere

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-29, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Bear

FLEIJA was created for war, as it was obvious that Zero would attempt to go directly to war with Britannia. It was Schneizel's decision to use it in an inapropriate environment. Hezbolla aren't going to war with America.

It's still a nuke. You don't treat a WMD as a really big bomb that you drop just like any other bomb.

As for Hizbollah, they are at war with Israel, which is a nuclear power.

Grey Dawn · 2009-01-29, 09:28

Uh, nukes have side effects. We'd be much happier to use them if they didn't. FLEIA has no such problems and if we had it we would use it, just with care towards civilian casualties.

But no, please do not compare FLEIA to warheads that cause tremendous atmospheric damage and release deadly radiation for decades.

2009-01-29, 00:10	Link #1485
Lord_Bear Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia	On Nina: http://jusrecht.livejournal.com/5308.html

2009-01-29, 05:28	Link #1489
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Still, making a nuke to drop on people for no good reason is really pushing the limit.

2009-01-29, 05:35	Link #1490
Lord_Bear Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia	Didn't she make it with the intention to stop Zero? Zero was a terrorist at the time and she was hired by a Britannian Prince to contribute to the war. She thought she was doing a good thing by creating it, which is why it was such a shock to her that it was used on the Settlement, rather than during a battle in an open area. It wasn't for no reason, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do either. Ultimately, Schneizel was the one who decided to employ it on a city, rather than reserving it for the Damocles vs Avalon battle.

2009-01-29, 05:40	Link #1492
Lord_Bear Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia	How could she have known how dangerous/extreme he was? He appeared completely serene for most of the series.

2009-01-29, 05:55	Link #1494
Lord_Bear Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia	Zero had an army behind him.

2009-01-29, 06:08	Link #1496
Lord_Bear Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia	FLEIJA was created for war, as it was obvious that Zero would attempt to go directly to war with Britannia. It was Schneizel's decision to use it in an inapropriate environment. Hezbolla aren't going to war with America.

2009-01-29, 06:17	Link #1497
Levy differently sober Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Italy Age: 41	It doesn't matter where and when it will be used, FREJA still will cause a huge loss of human lifes, more than any ordinary weapon, and Nina, although being the designer of the bomb, doesn't seems to have realized the full extent of this untill it happened for real. So, she's not responsible of not having understood that Schneizel was an ass with world domination issues - it's more than reasonable that she doesn't, but she is responsible to have not understood the damage that her brainchild was going to cause. Anyway, we are OT. If you want to keep the discussion up, move it to the generic discussion thread. and, just to keep this on topic, I remember that by the time of ep.22 there was a usual 'Woa woa Rivalz/Nina! _' thing on Lj.. ..well, I didn't like that XD

2009-01-29, 06:20	Link #1498
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	I solved the Rivalz/Nina mystere

2009-01-29, 09:28	Link #1500
Grey Dawn zzzzzzzz Join Date: Oct 2008	Uh, nukes have side effects. We'd be much happier to use them if they didn't. FLEIA has no such problems and if we had it we would use it, just with care towards civilian casualties. But no, please do not compare FLEIA to warheads that cause tremendous atmospheric damage and release deadly radiation for decades.