2009-04-11, 02:28 | Link #1842 | |||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Tsubomi from which anime?
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I'd play. Oh, I'd play. |
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2009-04-11, 09:38 | Link #1844 | |
Some say I'm the Reverse
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Heh. I finally managed to watch MS Igloo 2 Ep.2 and now I've got a thing for tanks. Heheheheh~~~
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2009-04-11, 11:14 | Link #1845 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
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It's been done before to a limited extent - the old Origin action/flightsim game Strike Commander portrayed a USA that was far from benevolent (albeit there were no real "good guys" either, apart from the player and his squadron - the various countries and factions in the game were all simply fighting for their own interests, which I liked), and the player came up against US government forces a number of times during the game.
Deus Ex ran with a government conspiracy plotline and sold extremely well, although its evil government was a fictional blend of the US government and UN. There are also movies and other media out there which portray the US much more blatantly as an evil antagonist. Obviously they tend not to originate in the US (exceptions such as Michael Moore aside), but the fact that a nation is a US ally doesn't necessarily preclude such things. For instance, in the last five years or so there's been at least one Turkish novel and one movie featuring the US as the "bad guys." |
2009-04-11, 11:41 | Link #1846 |
Some say I'm the Reverse
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Very Off-Topic, but I figure it's better to post this here (wherein people have certain similar interests) as opposed to making a thread about Macross and Robotech and all the mess that's going to make in the first three responses. Anyhow, see links:
http://ngeekhiong.blogspot.com/2009/...s-helmets.html http://www.yamato-toys.com/blog/index.php?logid=114 That's right, life-size (1/1) scale Valkyrie Pilot helmets. They may not be of any -practical- use ( most certainly not crash-test certified), but damn, just one of those are SO worth having... Now that I think of it, maybe I can rig an IPod Video to fit in this thing and play Strike Witches videos without being noticed---much.
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2009-04-11, 14:02 | Link #1847 | ||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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"Screw the Gundams. I've got tanks." |
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2009-04-11, 18:06 | Link #1848 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Age: 36
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Although, historically, most of the US's "evil" actions have been done either covertly or through covert support of other forces. For example, Operation Ajax in Iran, all those anti-democratic "install dictators amenable to US interests" CIA campaigns in Latin America, etc.
Which don't fit the traditional war game quite as much. About the dubs, sure, Funimation has always done dubs, but I'm not really sure we can count on it this time. We live in the Time of Change when it comes to anime. ADV always did dubs...except for a few months ago. Now all it's recent releases (Clannad, Indian Summer) are sub-only. Funimation has announced a partnership of some sort with a blatant anime piracy site. Stuff is changing like crazy. Who knows what'll happen in a year? |
2009-04-11, 21:27 | Link #1849 | |||||||||
Loveable Jerk
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That said the scary part is that for some of those aircraft such maneuvers are not really that unreasonable. I heard a Raptor demo pilot discussing how he’d come out of a maneuver: “Once I hit 50 knots negative airspeed.” The other funny part though is that rather ironically and realistically most of those fancy maneuvers will only get you blasted in an online match as another faster guy zooms in and shots your sitting duck ass before you can recover, or you do your fancy little back flip but he just zooms past at Mach 2 and into a flat turn which ends up putting him in postion to attack again just as you recover. Quote:
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I suppose now might also be the time to mention the issue of them sending active duty officers to fight the Aliens in 1939. The one bright spot is that Patton showed up in the newer Doujin so perhaps there's some hope yet. Also for anyone intrested in that the Histroy channel is doing a new series following a number of his battles through out the war, which I sadly managed to forget was starting this Friday and won't be able to see again until it re-airs monday. -_- Quote:
The US going around like superman sweeping in to save the day for purely altruistic reason all the time isn't that realistic, but then the US being a fascist colonial power in disguise is frankly even more outlandish. I forget where I heard the quote, but the one I've always liked when considering national policy: "Doing something good for selfish reasons doesn't negate having done good." Quote:
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There is a reason beyond mere tradition that 99% of games have you as some kind of hero and 99% of movies are about them. People like doing good things and seeing good people win, people do not like doing bad things and seeing bad people win. Its basic human nature, and to deny it is folly. Even I fall into it as I always tend to play a fairly good guy, and I often don’t even bother with the evil options in a game, and any game that forces me to be evil I tend to dislike. Quote:
Of course what a society happens to consider heroic can vary mind you. Viking saga for instance actually make fun of one Viking leader that refrained from slaughtering children basically calling him a pussy. To us this might sound pretty villain like, but to the guys writing it it wasn't it was business as usual and these guys were celebrated and venerated heroes of there people. Now due to our own social norms heroes don't go around murdering children, and indeed crazed child murdering raiders would be villains, but that's because we consider different values important. The point is though that whatever a group of people happen to consider "Heroic" is what they're going to write about. We consider rescuing babies, fighting evil rulers, and bringing peace and harmony to the land heroic and so that's what we produce. Quote:
The statistical evidence of this is overwhelming: mature liberal democracies will not fight other democracies. This is why the vast majority of examples in which a democratic nation is a villain will involve either A. a small rouge faction or B. a coup or something that renders it autocratic. Since after all if they’re invading or attacking an autocratic state it’s rather hard to paint them as evil in comparison to the guys in charge. Quote:
Tanks >>>>>>>>> Mechs in any context besides, to burrow a term from another board I haven't used in awhile, Giant Stair World™.
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2009-04-11, 21:44 | Link #1850 | |
Tsukkomi power!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: For great justice!
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I have to agree that in most cases, people want to play benevolent characters. For instance, I once read an RPG player's walkthrough site intro, and how he would never again play the 'evil' side, because it made him feel like a jerk. I'd like to think that this can be generalised, but I know that some play the 'evil' side purely so they can be jerks without any real life consequences. |
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2009-04-11, 23:43 | Link #1852 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Age: 36
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Your post makes many good points. You should se me playing Fable II. Although, I think one might say the reason people like to play so heroically and nobly in games is because they're ashamed of how weak-willed and dickish in real life, and want to escape it via a gaming fantasy. |
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2009-04-12, 02:10 | Link #1853 | |||||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Age: 36
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No, the US aren't a 'fascist colonial power in disguise' but then again, neither is Russia. Or Japan. And yet nobody seems to have a problem with these countries invading others, even though if we look at current history, most of invading the last couple of decades is done by the US. A game that has the US going for global domination wouldn't be outlandish, it would merely be blowing things out of proportion. Quote:
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Ahh~ will never happen, but I can dream, can't I? Quote:
Not much time to shop today, but I'll see what I can do. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-04-12 at 03:58. |
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2009-04-12, 10:01 | Link #1854 |
Some say I'm the Reverse
Join Date: Jul 2006
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- Unfortunately A-10 Thunderbolt >>>> Tanks. ^_^
Seriously, Herman Yandell does for the Type 61 Tank what Norris Packard did for the Gouf--made a relatively low-end machine that I -personally- wouldn't have bothered with look ABSOLUTELY BADASS. Oh, back on-topic, A girl of marriageable age here:
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2009-04-12, 21:20 | Link #1855 | ||
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if you have a country driven by money, it may very well act to get it. and really, in our days direct "war" is not the only way, you could cause its economy to break and from the shadows appoint some dictator and then "rescue" them for their money. there are plenty of ways a "democracy" can be nothing more then a tool, after all the masses are simple minded, in the end if you have enough money you can still buy everything, even a seat in the white house. Quote:
sure you could say "but it stopped being one" but really, it could have just as easily stayed a fake democracy. democracy isn't some magic solution that solves everything. |
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2009-04-12, 22:08 | Link #1856 |
Some say I'm the Reverse
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Although it hurts to admit it, Jiryuu is somewhat right in one sense--it doesn't matter what form of government you have, it is dependent on the people to decide whether to accept it (or in the case of WWII Germany, reject it in favor of a new, harsher one). There is no one perfect form of government, and worse still, there is no ideal government for all people.
...this is why I hate politics. I always feel like I need a decontamination unit every time I talk about it. OK, I think we're all guilty of going too far off-topic now. Maybe we can move those commentaries to another section?
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2009-04-13, 01:29 | Link #1857 | ||||||||
Loveable Jerk
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Of course if the guy won't trade at all or is nationalizing stuff without any kind of reimbursement or legal recourse then that can change, but the sorts of guys that do that tend to be either A. Dictators or B. Communists on the way to being Dictators. So normally what happens is you just replace one asshole with an asshole slightly more amendable to your own interests. If the government is really democratic it's often possible to simply leverage legitimate political pressure to change it's policy. That said there are a very few examples of fairly democratic governments being destroyed in the interest of nation security or the like, but these are not as common as many would have you think. Quote:
Also in a real democracy being the Chief Executive means little, as the Presidents or Prime Minister (or whatevers) power is extremely limited. As it is in any well put together nation state. This is why he's constantly pandering to congress and others to support is agenda and not just issuing declarations like a king. Quote:
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Allowing people a say clearly acts as a buffer against rash decisions that can lead to wars, and also keeps mosts crackpots with delusions of grander out of power while allowing legal means to remove the few that do slip through. Quote:
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Last edited by Tk3997; 2009-04-13 at 01:45. |
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2009-04-13, 08:23 | Link #1860 | ||||||||||||||
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Yes well, but then A-10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any kind of absurd 20 meter tall mecha even harder. Actually A-10>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything that moves along the ground. Quote:
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Also if you try to use this argument then you must also ask what the hell Japan gains by sending people and why it’s involved. The US East coast is much closer to Europe then Japan is to ANY of the fighting. Japan also lacks any noticeable national interests in the contested areas. Yet it quickly forms up and ships off large numbers of pilots rather rapidly to the battlezone when the war breaks out. The US meanwhile is ethnically much closer to Europe with many of its citizens being immigrants from the various threatened nations and it enjoys long and fairly good relations with a number of the threatened powers. This is beyond the simple fact that it would be abundantly clear that the Neuroi are genocidal and will not stop until they wipe out the human race. Taken together it makes the idea that the US would just sit around picking its ass as the Neuroi overrun Europe and the Middle East while Japan dispatches large amounts of military aid seem more then a little asinine. It also does nothing to explain the profound lack of Russian witches when that nation is apparently the massive front line of the invasion. Then again it's sort of par for the course for the air battles over Russia to be ignored. Most of them were smaller scale and happened between small patrols and such, not as glamorous as a thousand B-17s in staggered formation fending off waves of attack German fighters like some aerial version of the Alamo. Quote:
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C&C: All the canon endings have GDI win, and some fan fic writers determined to make everything “grimdark” aside GDI is clearly unquestionably the good guys. RA: The Allies always wins in canon, so the other options effectively didn’t happen so far as Canon is concerned. GTA: Violence level is variable you are a criminal, but it’s entirely possible to play most of the games with a very minimal amount of pointless violence and more or less kill only other criminals. Certainly there’s almost no logical reason to conduct the kinds of baby killing murder sprees it’s associated with as that actually just makes the game harder. Yakuza: never heard of it unsurprisingly since it came out like three years ago and seems to have produced exactly zero buzz. Fallout and KoToR: In both of these even if you were rather “evil” you still ended up killing the big bad and pretty much saving the world (Galaxy) thus making you more anti-hero then villian to my veiw. Besides that though in both of them the good endings are the canon ones as the follow ups can only work if that's the case. So really what we’ve got is Yakuza (I can’t comment on that so I’ll assume you really are evil), GTA (Sorta to advance the plot you have to do some rather morally ambiguous things, but in theory you could just cruise the streets using it as a driving simulator), and then four games where the good guys win in Canon (All the RA games, 99% of C&C games, Both KoToR games and Fallout 1 and 2). So basically out of the six games you mentioned in four of them the Heroic ending are the "Real" ones which means any evil actions never acutally happened as far as canon is concerned. Quote:
Though honestly I’ve always found whining like this a little silly sort of like someone going “How come all the Heroes in Ancient Greek legend are from Greece? How come there aren’t any African or Persian heroes?!” Gee I wonder why… It’s also why despite my grumbling I can kind of understand why Japanese witches are so disproportionably represented in Strike Witches, and don’t mind that much. However the ratio is for my tastes a bit TOO skewed with regards to several nations at the moment in light of it’s supposed historical basis. (Mostly the US and Russia who ironically despite being the two largest powers in the war have a total of three canon witches between them) Quote:
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Last edited by Tk3997; 2009-04-13 at 08:51. |
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bishoujo, bost tv, gonzo, kemonomimi, mecha, mecha musume |
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