Regios - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[aliasxn]

Originally Posted by giorno

....uh? did you even watch the last episode? she was actually angry at herself for thinking that without reyfon they couldn't do anything....she realizes reyfon's importance for the platoon full well...and that's exactly the reason why she wants to become stronger, because she doesn't want her platoon, and herself, to be entirely dependent on a single man...

also, why should she feel grateful for reyfon being in her platoon? it's not like he's doing her a favor or anything....and as for her "we shouldn't be in the same platoon", well, that's entirely understandable, given the situation in which she said that(given her personality and philosophy, and given reyfon's personality and what he told her at the time...)

she's really not underestimating reyfon or anything, she's just expressing her opinion...she can't work with a guy who, by his own words, would do anything to live...which would imply the possibility of him abandoning allies and such...she's pretty quick in changing idea after hearing the whole story from ferri...

Oh, she's got a lot to be thankful for! Platoon 17 - and apparently it is a really big thing for her - would've been disbanded if it weren't for Layfon. Not only did she get to keep her Platoon but they started winning matches as well, and stopped being everyone's punching bag (yet another big improvement in her life). And not to mention that he saved her life more than a couple of times... So I really think she should be a little more appreciative of Fon Fon...

As for her reasons for wanting him out... Well... Whatever, I don't like it. She chose to take Gorneo's advice over Layfon's just to spite him, even though Layfon had the most experience out of everyone in that room by far, therefore putting everyone in danger. And she didn't even know the whole story...

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Well, this is still one of my favorite airing series right now. It really is entertaining.

But can anyone tell me why sometimes people call him Layton and at other times Layfon? I'm not understanding why it changes sometimes.

[Lucipher]

Am i the only person who loved the fact that she got pwned that bad. She should be Worshipping the ground FonFon walked on for everything FonFon has done for her pathetic arse. Instead all she dose is take all this holier then thouw attitude and it annoys the hell out of me. Maybe now she will start worshiping him like she should have been all this time cuz FonFon > that whole darn school

[necrosis6]

I think that the plan Nina used was fine if she did a couple of modifications. If Felli was trying harder, she could've found a sniping place right away and Sharnid's group would've done fine. All Nina needed to do was be a smart decoy, in otherwords engage in skirmishes but run away quickly and avoid Van. I think that if Nina was a little bit smarter and Felli actually tried, they could've won that even though they were outnumbered. Sticking together would be a bad idea seeing how quickly Nina got owned, I'm pretty sure Van could just solo all of team 17 since sharnid can't snipe people engaged in melee and Nina + curly haired girl wouldn't stand a chance especially if all of Team 1 went against them.

[giorno]

Originally Posted by addict2anime

the thing with "he would do anything to live" i think he meant he'd do n e thing to live so he can help the people he cares for...

but he didn't tell her that, he just told her he'd do anything to live...that's why ferri actually had to explain reyfon's meaning of "to live"(in a way reyfon is much more selfless than nina...though i guess it's natural considering he grew up as a living weapon, rather than a human being...)

Oh, she's got a lot to be thankful for! Platoon 17 - and apparently it is a really big thing for her - would've been disbanded if it weren't for Layfon

no, it was the SCP who got reyfon into platoon 17...and reyfon was just too cowardly to firmly refuse, so he was stuck there...then he came to know nina and the others better, came to make some good friends and to like zuellni, at which point he pretty much accepted to be a platoon member...

it's true that their platoon started winning matches entirely because of him, but nina does understand this as well, otherwise she wouldn't even be thinking like that at all(she whines with harley about it even)
(yes, i know she didn't look like she understood this right away, but after the incident with that old FM she pretty much understood a little better how broken reyfon really is...and pretty much aso why their platoon is that strong)

She chose to take Gorneo's advice over Layfon's just to spite him, even though Layfon had the most experience out of everyone in that room by far, therefore putting everyone in danger. And she didn't even know the whole story...

her not knowing the whole story is entirely reyfon's fault, she confronted him about it, and he told her that, not Gorneo...
i agree with her not following the advice of the most experienced guy in the room's an error, but guess what? that's precisely the reason why she though she and reyfon couldn't work together: before something unknown, Gorneo and Nina though of the possibility of survivors, reyfon thought about the possibility of some mutant FM...see why they're incompatible? one would be willing to risk her life for the possibility of saving another's life, the other on the otherhand, would rather "lose time" being sure of exactly what was down there, in other words, giving priority to his own safety...

that said, i too find nina's attitude actually kind of annoying, but you're criticizing her for either wrong, or no reasons at all here...

[Von Himmel]

But can anyone tell me why sometimes people call him Layton and at other times Layfon? I'm not understanding why it changes sometimes.

It's how the trio went to call him in the. . err, 2nd episode ? To put it simply, it's a nickname.

[addict2anime]

Dude... u either sound anti-fon fon or pro Nina... there are plenty of reasons to criticize Nina... somethings are just implied... fon fon had no reason to convey his entire past to Nina anyway, he wasn't even that close to her compared to his talks with Felli..... and the thing b/w risking her life and losing time... I think u forget that fon fon was actually involved with killing those buggies like daily... its an effective strateegy u kno.. like.. knowing what you're gonna face before charging in head on like an idiot and getting ownt. Like the NINA we know. Like i stated before, there's no possible way for Nina to ever catch up with fon fons skills, therefore she must use her head O_O its kinda implied that fon fon would like to live to protect others.... he might'[ve said that but his actiions in Zueelini so far are wayyyyyyyyyyyy different. In episode two he only uses his semi tru strength to kik pplz butts because he wanted to help Nina save the city. He ended up saving Zuellini like 3 episodes later... i mean faulting him by that one time where he didn't explain something thourougly ish just stupid~ where Nina's actions have been the same over and over... One of the reasons i prefer Felli more. You can see her personality ttrying to change at least. Nina knows she has to change but she does nothing about it and is therefore useless till she does otherwwise~

[Von Himmel]

Nina knows she has to change but she does nothing about it and is therefore useless till she does otherwwise~

She's trying to change. . by trying to get more stronger lolol xD;
I think this episode will trigger her development. Not by being more strong, but being more. . err, smarter ? Oh well, it's a different story if she indeed will get a new power during the next arc >.>

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Lucipher

Am i the only person who loved the fact that she got pwned that bad. She should be Worshipping the ground FonFon walked on for everything FonFon has done for her pathetic arse. Instead all she dose is take all this holier then thouw attitude and it annoys the hell out of me. Maybe now she will start worshiping him like she should have been all this time cuz FonFon > that whole darn school

The problem with that is he wouldn't like that at all (appreciation is good, worship is what he got back home, and that alienated him, and made him like he is now), and they would put more pressure on him to perform, which would inevitably break him, god-tier, or not, and weaken Zuellni's forces by relying on him too much. I think there needs to be more balance here. The fact that Karian is breaking him slowly doesn't help this.

What if they get a situation with a bunch of mature ones? Even Layphon is going to succumb to fatigue. There needs to be not only more unity between Platoon 17, but more unity (coupled with some stricter training, now that they've experienced matures).

I'll agree with giorno here, that Nina's strategy was plausible, but she needs to curb her close-range mindset and limit exposure to the enemy, especially if your the difference between a loss and a win.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

What if they get a situation with a bunch of mature ones? Even Layphon is going to succumb to fatigue. There needs to be not only more unity between Platoon 17, but more unity (coupled with some stricter training, now that they've experienced matures).

To be very fair, I cannot imagine normal humans are going to be able to defeat mature bugs, even though they are united. Sad thing is, they would end up being in the way rather than helping Layfon or any of HB members (or those who are competent enough to defeat mature bugs). Since, you know... Larvae is easily said as not strong at all, but mature bugs? That's a completely DIFFERENT story. Unless Regios has healing spells of some sorts, it is way better for the normal humans to unite together in defeating one or two larvaes.

Basically said, we only have seen larvaes in Regios, save for the one in prologue. You can easily say that the city may be able to defeat filths because you probably has never known the comparison between larvae, mature and the source of those filth monster (the mother?).

Although I hope the next episode may change my view in this theory...

[Sinestra]

I forgot i didnt post about episode 16.

What can i say Nina's strategy was so flawed from the start and i could see it coming. Instead of using Shena as a new strength she passed her off and reduced the role she could played in close quarters combat. In chess you never bring your queen out too early and you protect your queen and Nina is the king, If Layfon were there he would be queen but in this case it was Shana and Nina didnt use her properly. If Nina gets taken down its game over. Considering the squad she was facing she should have been way more cautious with her strategy. Not only did she over estimate her abilities but she belittled the #1 squad ability to see through her little faint. Over confidence breeds carelessness. Yes she had been depending on Layfon a lot in battle and wanted to show she could do it without him NOT THE TEAM BUT HER. In attempting to do so she made a bigger blunder than if she would have played it safe and tried to figure out what her opponents strategy was. Her and Shana should have been acting as one with Sharnid covering them while Felli looked for an opening and analyzed their moments being on the defensive first would have been prudent. She may not have been able to beat the squad captain in terms of strength but she could have beat him in strategy.

I am very hard on her for a reason because i see her potential but her mistakes are just so horrible at time. This was a good lesson for her but she will emo for a little bit before perking back up again. I feel Shana had every reason to be pissed off about the loss.

Once again Layfon is sent by himself to handle business while injured which i think is BS but who else can get the job done but him. This double edge sword business sucks ass.

nice episode disappointing battle.

[willyvereb]

Even Code Geass full of "strange" tactics and strategies...Anime and movies rarely famous about working and clever tactics/strategies...I think we overly discuss something that not even the strenght of the series... For example
we can argue that Layfon used flawed tactics against the young matured FM at ep 7, even though we know that he's a "walking super weapon" and battle genius in some way. We should quit arguing about it. It's natural that the head of the military arts outsmarted Nina and beated her in a single fight. The other things just "decoration".
We can argue that who's fault and whose not, but the only thing matter the outcome. Nina and the 17 platoon defeated and Nina thinks again that she relies on Layfon too much. That's it. The whole defeat's meaning just Nina's character development.

[giorno]

Originally Posted by addict2anime

Dude... u either sound anti-fon fon or pro Nina...

i'm neither, i like reyfon's character much and i don't particularly like nina....i just can't agree with people bashing her for no reasons, or even when she isn't even wrong...now, for example, sinestra's bashing two posts above this, i totally agree with it

there are plenty of reasons to criticize Nina...

true, in fact, it's all the more reasons to not criticize her for wrong or nonexistant reasons

somethings are just implied... fon fon had no reason to convey his entire past to Nina anyway, he wasn't even that close to her compared to his talks with Felli.....

right right...and so? the fact that reyfon didn't have a particular reason to tell nina everything(though actually, he just doesn't tell her everything because he thinks it wouldn't matter, not because he's not close enough and wants to keep the truth from her), doesn't mean that nina's wrong for coming to think that way without knowning the full truth...it's not nina's fault if reyfon decided to only tell her that much...i've said it's his fault for not telling nina everything, that leads nina to think like that, but i never said that he was wrong, it's not a situation where one definitely has to be wrong and the other right...

and the thing b/w risking her life and losing time... I think u forget that fon fon was actually involved with killing those buggies like daily... its an effective strateegy u kno.. like.. knowing what you're gonna face before charging in head on like an idiot and getting ownt. Like the NINA we know. Like i stated before, there's no possible way for Nina to ever catch up with fon fons skills, therefore she must use her head

....i'll auto-quote myself here

i agree with her not following the advice of the most experienced guy in the room's an error

its kinda implied that fon fon would like to live to protect others.... he might'[ve said that but his actiions in Zueelini so far are wayyyyyyyyyyyy different. In episode two he only uses his semi tru strength to kik pplz butts because he wanted to help Nina save the city. He ended up saving Zuellini like 3 episodes later...

reyfon lived to "protect"(and keep it alive) what he cared for(the orphanage), it's the way he grew up, and the whole point of his becoming a military artist....right now he's trying to find a life for himself, whilst of course, wanting to protect what he cares for(like any normal human being)...his saving zuellni from the FMs doesn't contradicts what he said to nina actually, not after she learns he was a HB receiver, powerful enough to fight the FM by himself at least...

i mean faulting him by that one time where he didn't explain something thourougly ish just stupid~

??? what do you mean by faulting him?

[addict2anime]

You said you didn't like it when people bash Nina for the wrong reasons.. but they aren't wrong...? Well i'm sick of debating... cuz i honestly don't think you're gonna change your mind anyway XD. Since you say you can't blame Nina for thinking like that... that means u fault Fon fon or u blame him for having her come to that specific conclusion... Actually you can blame her for going to that conclusion.. people who think differently come to different conclusions so... lets just agree to disagree and shuddup about this cuz its annoying~ and agree that both fon fon and Nina are blockheads on different subjects~

O and Felli and her frills pwn all~ (u don't hafta agree to that but its tru)~

[Eid]

Downloaded EP 15 in hd by excident.. ogh well... HD

[zibi88]

Well its clear enought that Nina never will reach Layfons level.... and she already should know that she is relying on layfon too much...... like it was on one of first episodes when they lost to a team and the captain said to nina that she is relying too much on the new one [layfon]......... she didnt listened to it and she still was relying on Layfon too much.... and this confirms her words in last episode..... when she saw Layfon hurt first she throught of is that its the end....they dont have a chance of winning without layfon....(she was not thinking about Layfon health status but that she wont win the match !! <--- this is seriously wrong... specialy from a captain... not worrying about comarade health but thinking about the match)

In my eyes nina should change strategy without Layfon.... I mean without layfon she should switch to teamwork mode.... and not leave everything to one person....which power is not enought to defeat the enemy....

I hope that this last match will show Nina her place and strenght.... Layfon is on WHOLE different level that she cant ever reach (Layfon is even yougner than nina... and he becomed HB at what age ? 10 ? so layfon was one of the strognest fighters in regios world at such age while nina mostly was still playing with dolls or something XDXD)

Well Nina than blameing,complaining on Layfon should fall on her knees and beg for mercy.... since if not Layfon she would be a bug-shit by now ^^ and well Nina was kinda the couse of Layfon's getting injured too......she shouldnt talk about the food that turned out to be from meishen and then she puts the blame on Layfon !!!!!!!!! is she retarded !? first she wanted to trade the lunch boxes and now she puts the blame on Layfon (well the box was not adressed who made it so how should he know !) normaly if she noticed the same taste she should keep that information for herself and than dont agree to trade boxes next time.....

Ehh and at the end Meishen run away... and nina was yelling on Layfon for something she alone started >___<

Yeah Leerin come to Zerenii and grab Layfon away form Nina :P........ hmmm I wonder how the sword will look like (the one that leerin got from her father)

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by zibi88

Well its clear enought that Nina never will reach Layfons level.... and she already should know that she is relying on layfon too much...... like it was on one of first episodes when they lost to a team and the captain said to nina that she is relying too much on the new one [layfon]......... she didnt listened to it and she still was relying on Layfon too much.... and this confirms her words in last episode..... when she saw Layfon hurt first she throught of is that its the end....they dont have a chance of winning without layfon....(she was not thinking about Layfon health status but that she wont win the match !! <--- this is seriously wrong... specialy from a captain... not worrying about comarade health but thinking about the match)

Uhm I think you're a bit too much hard on Nina: I don't think she's a good captain too, but I think she had to deal with something of extraordinary magnitude... a one-man-army isn't something you can deal with very easily. I think Layfon said that himself: he works better alone and he isn't very suited to work in a team. He has to do it tough, so a way must be found no matter what. In the last two battles Team 17 had Layfon managing 90% of the enemy forces, while the rest of the Team would go after the target... it's an improvement from relying ENTIRELY on Layfon's shoulders, but still not enough against experienced and skilled Teams like Team 1.
I think Nina must give up her pride as captain and accepting that Layfon must be Team 17 pillar and not her: I don't mean she has to quit being a captain, I only mean she has to concentrate on strategies and coordination of the overall Team 17, instead of putting herself in front of the battle line.
That won't work out because she's weak and this won't change anytime soon: her strength will always be pathetic, compared to Layfon's one anyway.
I think Team 17 should function like this:
- Layfon: main melee fighter and Team 17 pillar. He must always be on the frontline taking out most of enemies' forces.
- Shena: secondary melee fighter... she should deal with the flies who manage to survive Layfon's hurricane.
- Sharnid: sniper and backup for the melee fighters, especially for Shena.
- Felli: Wireless Team Communication Protocol.
- Nina: Strategy planning and overall coordination of the Team 17.

[giorno]

you do realize that using reyfon as main fighter, no one else in the platoon is gonna do anything? i think the use she's doing of reyfon in the match against the 5th platoon isn't entirely to bash...use him as bait to lure and stall(stall, not insta-defeat and go on...) the strongest members of the enemy platoon, the ones who would mop the floor with her and sharnid easily(like gorneo), and do rest themselves...especially now that they have another member, they could theoretically make do without reyfon...with a bit of actual planning, that is...and losing an inter-platoon match isn't that bad, it's still good experience(for example, nina now knows how much of a difference there is between her and an actual full fledged normal military artist...so she's gonna think twice next time before deciding to try acting like a reyfon's surrogate..)

nina's going out on the frontlines isn't wrong(at least, it's definitely not wrong when they have only 3 fighters in the team...also considering that she has to get some actual battle experience on her skin herself, too), but she should think and plan more instead of relying so much on reyfon, and in his absence, trying to act as a surrogate...the fun part is, when talking with harley, she said "there are many different ways of fighting", only to go and fight in the usual way they do...without the one guy who made it possible for them to fight like that...

the main problem in having someone like reyfon in the platoon is exactly that he is too strong, and if he's used as primary force, the others aren't gonna get any practice from the match, considering that reyfon has no need for battle simulation training, and that no matter what, he will most likely always do better alone with ferri's support(from far away from the battlefield)...rather, i think nina should just get reyfon to tutor her training...

Since you say you can't blame Nina for thinking like that... that means u fault Fon fon or u blame him for having her come to that specific conclusion...

yeah, i say it's reyfon's fault if nina came to that conclusion, because it is -let me clarify, fault isn't exactly the correct term here, as it's not reyfon's fault if his way of thinking and nina's are too different for them to work together-...it's exactly because of reyfon's words that nina came to that conclusion, coupled with her personality, which reyfon already knew...though imo, the reason why he doesn't care to explain the whole story to her, is because he already thinks that nina will refuse him, so even if he actually does tell the whole story, it wouldn't change anything...which actually turned out to be wrong, so i guess i actually do think reyfon was wrong in that situation(better yet, had wrong reasons to not explain everything to nina)

[Von Himmel]

Willy, nice quote you have there ;_;

The whole defeat's meaning just Nina's character development.

Seriously guys, a person needs to experienced failure to become a successful person in later life

[holyman282]

Just saw the ep and i was wondering the dite that Leerin is suppose to deliver doesn't look like the heaven blade but a psyharden weapon. I'm guessing it's a katana right? Also yea Nina's tactic was just dumb, she always rushes out instead of playing it safe even when she knows that when she is down then it's the end.

It was fun to see Nina get pwned but what would of been more fun would of been to see vance get pwned by Layfon. I wonder if that would make layfon the head of military arts?

Oh well deux ex machina situation meant that Layfon never got to own vance.