Claymore Chapter 91

[Defiled one]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator

Haha i'm keeping clear of this one the freudian symoblism appears about every other chapter...

You´ll only get loose situations. Strange moments that perceive what you see for a fact.

Clare Kissing Raki for example. What does it mean? A kiss is a kiss but the motivations behind it can differ. Only the author knows.

We, speculate. We, aren`t they. Thus, we don´t know what they think.

[Supermutant]

I don't think sexuality is really one of Yagi's concerns in this story. There are bits that are somewhat clear and other things that could be logical extrapolations, but there's very little in the way of clarity.

I've just been taking this at face value for the most part and to mean that most of the characters are just frigid/asexual/innocent or that relationships are improbable given circumstances. Though hooking up wouldn't be all that unlikely given the circumstances, more explicit romance may also undermine the inherent theme of Claymore isolation and suffering.

[hell88]

Originally Posted by Supermutant

I don't think sexuality is really one of Yagi's concerns in this story. There are bits that are somewhat clear and other things that could be logical extrapolations, but there's very little in the way of clarity.

I've just been taking this at face value for the most part and to mean that most of the characters are just frigid/asexual/innocent or that relationships are improbable given circumstances. Though hooking up wouldn't be all that unlikely given the circumstances, more explicit romance may also undermine the inherent theme of Claymore isolation and suffering.

I'm going to add something to this. Yagi only can make around 30 pages a month as that's all that is given to him, through the deal that he has with the main company that produces his manga. So he probably doesn't worry about the sexual themes as they would just take up to much of his time and the story would take longer to make. If their is anyone else here that has read his last manga like me, you would know what I mean by this. Waiting for a chapter every month really got annoying, and that's what I expected right off the bat with Claymore.

[Arkham]

I like the way you think @irvinethearcher
That is a problem
Perhapse Yagi should clear that up for us

[hell88]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

please, they are sisters.

Actually if I remember this correctly, back in the time Claymore is set. Incest wasn't really a word, and that it was normal back then for family members to be together and be intimate with each other.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Defiled one

You´ll only get loose situations. Strange moments that perceive what you see for a fact.

Clare Kissing Raki for example. What does it mean? A kiss is a kiss but the motivations behind it can differ. Only the author knows.

We, speculate. We, aren`t they. Thus, we don´t know what they think.

My guess is that Clare was deeply touched by Raki's fellings for her and she knew that he had little chances of surviving in the wilderness. So, that kiss was a way to tell him that he had reasons to keep on living.

We know it worked.

[MonsieurRosseau]

I sincerely doubt Yagi particularly wants to waste space on something that doesn't develop the plot, such as minor romances. The Clare/Raki possibility is really the only relationship that matters... Well, perhaps Dauf/Riful, but the specifics aren't as important as the basic loyalty/affection.

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

My guess is that Clare was deeply touched by Raki's fellings for her and she knew that he had little chances of surviving in the wilderness. So, that kiss was a way to tell him that he had reasons to keep on living.

We know it worked.

Well, you are right about that @JB, it's like the feeling that Clare herself had for Teresa, that would be the main reason I think.

And I see that @llost_soul is not in a good mood for some unknown reason, maybe trying to pic a fight from someone. I see your point, but definitely he doesn't.
Don't let it get you though.

BTW, I think he will have a go at me next.

[Cyclone]

lol - nice topic...

But since there are a few serious posts on the topic, I might as well join in.

Originally Posted by Supermutant

I don't think sexuality is really one of Yagi's concerns in this story. There are bits that are somewhat clear and other things that could be logical extrapolations, but there's very little in the way of clarity.

I've just been taking this at face value for the most part and to mean that most of the characters are just frigid/asexual/innocent or that relationships are improbable given circumstances. Though hooking up wouldn't be all that unlikely given the circumstances, more explicit romance may also undermine the inherent theme of Claymore isolation and suffering.

I think there is an aspect of sexuality to Claymore too.
By showcasing the awakened beings - Riful/Duff, Agatha, - they draw a stark contrast to their Claymore counterparts. It's like the training the Org puts them through locks away their human hedonistic side - a side that comes back with a vengence upon awakening.

In some respects, the story is almost a metaphor of growing up - of which sexuality is a part.

With Clare, she starts off cold, obidient, and alone - just the way the Org wants her to be.
She partially awakens in Rabona. There she has what is most likely her first kiss, her first confession, etc. Helen's first words to Clare later on do not indicate a sexually free mind either (and she is half awakened at this point too).
And would anyone be shocked if the story ended with Clare and Raki as a couple?

(Personally, I'm still wondering what happened at the Rabona party with a drunken Helen, half drunk Clare, Cid, Galk, Yuma, Deneve...).

I wouldn't be too surprised at someone like Jean or Rachel turning out to be gay - or at having their character designed as if they were. I don't expect to ever find out though - too low class for Yagi to put something like that on paper on think...
Oh well - we'll have to make due with doujins, I guess...

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

The problem with all this is that we don't even know what happens if claymores gets an orgasm.
Perhaps something like that is directly linked with awakening and therefore very dangerous?
Somehow i doubt it but the possibility exists.
Can claymores become pregnant? Okay wrong thread.

Hard not to giggle at the questions, but they're both something I have been wondering for a long time too. Maybe they've been told by their handler that they'd turn into youma if they achieved the big-O, and that's why they try to be so cold. They can control their body heat and metabolism, maybe they can control their urges too? Still - it would suck.

[Defiled one]

How certain, can we be sure that Claymore, is set during the middle ages? I know, crazy theory.

Anyways, during those times, incest was very much casual. Just blamed into the supernatural such as demons, succubus, incubus wada wada. So, I´m pretty sure there`s got to be a yoma getting the blame for unwanted pregnancy.

[Sleepy Speculator]

haha you guys sure like to be imaginative about 'relationships'...

As for time period, the claymoreverse looks to be more renaissance without guns, as if it's slipped back from the threshold of the enlightenment, just look at all the architecture, towns full of 3 and 4 story buildings, made of stone, brick? and tile. Very much like Italy,Spain etc...

Dark ages in England at least was more akin to wattle and daub...

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

I think there is an aspect of sexuality to Claymore too.
By showcasing the awakened beings - Riful/Duff, Agatha, - they draw a stark contrast to their Claymore counterparts. It's like the training the Org puts them through locks away their human hedonistic side - a side that comes back with a vengence upon awakening.
[...]
Maybe they've been told by their handler that they'd turn into youma if they achieved the big-O, and that's why they try to be so cold. They can control their body heat and metabolism, maybe they can control their urges too? Still - it would suck.

In other words warriors try to be asexual, cause not restraining themselves may lead to awakening? Interesting theory, but Helens words about Raki beeing Clares "toy" contradict that interpretation. Neither warrior from Slashers arc were concerned that one of them could have a lover. I suppose discusion about orgasm leading to awakening come from information that male warriors awoken cause yoki release feels for them like orgasm.

In some respects, the story is almost a metaphor of growing up - of which sexuality is a part.

True.

With Clare, she starts off cold, obidient, and alone - just the way the Org wants her to be.
She partially awakens in Rabona. There she has what is most likely her first kiss, her first confession, etc. Helen's first words to Clare later on do not indicate a sexually free mind either (and she is half awakened at this point too).
And would anyone be shocked if the story ended with Clare and Raki as a couple?

I'll be pissed if they not. At least for Clare and Raki I want a happy ending.

I wouldn't be too surprised at someone like Jean or Rachel turning out to be gay - or at having their character designed as if they were. I don't expect to ever find out though - too low class for Yagi to put something like that on paper on think...
Oh well - we'll have to make due with doujins, I guess...

Love and jealousy are powerfull forces and a very convenient ways to develop a plot. Yagi is using love, parental love - like Teresa and Clare relationship, and "standard" love - Clare and Raki obviously. I'm wondering why Priscilla is under Rakis controll, and my guess it's love. I'm not sure if Priscilla love Raki as her father/brother or as her (potential) lover. If the later we have a wicked love triangle in Claymore.
Poor Raki, protagonist in harem manga doesn't risk to be torn apart by rejected girl (ok, Tsukune in Rosario to Vampire is at risk ).

[lost_soul]

Originally Posted by Ryuken

And I see that @llost_soul is not in a good mood for some unknown reason, maybe trying to pic a fight from someone. I see your point, but definitely he doesn't.
Don't let it get you though.

BTW, I think he will have a go at me next.

I'm a girl!

[Vinak]

Originally Posted by Arturro

I'll be pissed if they not. At least for Clare and Raki I want a happy ending.

really? I'd be quite happy if Raki were to be unceremoniously eaten or killed.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Arturro

.
I'll be pissed if they not. At least for Clare and Raki I want a happy ending.

I would be happy were that to happen but I can't see it in Claymore. This is the manga were friends kill other friends because they have turned into monsters.

Clare is more likely to Awaken and Raki might have to kill her.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Vinak

really? I'd be quite happy if Raki were to be unceremoniously eaten or killed.

Clouded is your mind, young Vinak

Just try to forget Raki from anime and re-read manga with a fresh look at him. In manga his actions in Rabona (Ravenna/Lawona?) as well as his fight with Ophelia put him in a good light. In anime he was just crying, squeaking ... something.

Originally Posted by MisterJB

I would be happy were that to happen but I can't see it in Claymore. This is the manga were friends kill other friends because they have turned into monsters.

It's true, I don't expect everyone to survive till the end, I just hope male and female protagonist will survive.

Clare is more likely to Awaken and Raki might have to kill her.

I expect her to wwaken to, just I believe she won't lose her mind. Or, even better, Raki once again will rescue her soul (without killing her or himself). Jean death is enought.

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by lost_soul

I'm a girl!

Don't get me wrong, I like girls, the main reason why I like claymore.

[Negativedark]

Originally Posted by Arturro

I'll be pissed if they not. At least for Clare and Raki I want a happy ending.

They get married and have daughters. Teresea, the twins Jean and Flora, and then Irene.

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by Negativedark

They get married and have daughters. Teresea, the twins Jean and Flora, and then Irene.

That would be like Naruto then.

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Negativedark

They get married and have daughters. Teresea, the twins Jean and Flora, and then Irene.

Actually, that brings me to another question. Just what were the negotiations with Rabona (Chapter 80 page 10) all about? Were the Ghosts negotiating an alliance, a treaty of friendship, or were they essentially taking over Rabona in exchange for their military protection? If they were taking over Rabona, what form would their rule be?

That answer matters when we start talking about Claire & Raki having children. Claymores having children, by the way Negativedark, was already something Helen mentioned (Chapter 25 page 23). Helen: "Oh, you brought a child? It can't be your own...so you picked up a stray on the road. Will he help us fight?"
Claire: "He'll stay in town. I'm going to find him an inn."
Helen: "Heh, I see. So he's your plaything?" (snickering)
Claire swings her sword at Helen.

The basic logic of what Helen said is that Claire could not have produced a child of her own, as she is inferring that female Claymores are barren/infertile (most likely due to the surgery that made them into Claymores). I have no idea if partially awakening changes that, but for the moment children between the two seems unlikely.

Let's say the Ghosts have in fact negotiated themselves command/control over Rabona, which is effectively now their state. Would the Ghosts become care-taker protectors over essentially a state that is a theocracy? Would they make it into a Republic? Would they rule jointly with the humans or with each other? Or would they appoint Miria as enlightened monarch of Rabona someday?

This last possibility figures Claire/Raki into the equation, because if Rabona were to become a Claymore-led monarchy, then succession becomes key. Miria's successor as Queen (or Duchess, Grand Duchess, Countess, etc-whatever the title would be) would most likely be Claire. Claire's successors would either be her fellow comrades (Deneve, etc) or her own children.


So basically, there are two questions
1) What do you think happened in the negotiations with Rabona (which Miria mentioned as the "hard part")?
2) If the Ghosts were negotiating for control of the city-state of Rabona, what form of rule will there be? (monarchy, republic, figurehead rulers over the current theocracy, or merely heads of Rabona's military, etc)