(L) Ga-rei -Zero-

[Malkuth]

^^ By the way this is one of the best effects of the first episode being out of order! I remember many complaining, but it added a lot to the show's dramatic value and in the long run I considerate a very wise decision.

[Revan21]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

^^ By the way this is one of the best effects of the first episode being out of order! I remember many complaining, but it added a lot to the show's dramatic value and in the long run I considerate a very wise decision.

I don't b/c by the time we get to the same part again towards the ending and everything jumps into fast forward, it's not that easy to fill in the missing parts from the second episode which aired severals weeks before.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Revan21

I don't b/c by the time we get to the same part again towards the ending and everything jumps into fast forward, it's not that easy to fill in the missing parts from the second episode which aired severals weeks before.

My point is that you knew that Yomi will turn evil, but for more than two hours of screen-time you get to empathize with her since you see her good side and understand that some times there is no way around these choices and you get torn in what is the righteous choice (like her). You don't really have to remember the specifics from the beginning, just that the villain actually turned to be the character you understood best and empathize with despite knowing the outcome

[Revan21]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

My point is that you knew that Yomi will turn evil, but for more than two hours of screen-time you get to empathize with her since you see her good side and understand that some times there is no way around these choices and you get torn in what is the righteous choice (like her). You don't really have to remember the specifics from the beginning, just that the villain actually turned to be the character you understood best and empathize with despite knowing the outcome

Of course you can empathize with her, since she's also a victim. And I wouldn't say that she turned evil, in a moment of weakness her soul was overtaken by the death stone thus her body became a puppet while most of her real personality got locked away And I would have still understood her situation even without the prologue, so there really was no point in starting the series that way, especially with another team which had no significance at all.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Revan21

Of course you can empathize with her, since she's also a victim. And I wouldn't say that she turned evil, in a moment of weakness her soul was overtaken by the death stone thus her body became a puppet while most of her real personality got locked away And I would have still understood her situation even without the prologue, so there really was no point in starting the series that way, especially with another team which had no significance at all.

I always thought it gave the show an air of tragedy that wouldn't be there without it. You knew the Yomi was going to eventually turn evil and you see how cruel she could be so it draws a marked contrast from what you see of her after episode 2. All the happy moments were tainted with a sense of dread of what was to come. Also the original cast for a lot of people were memorable and it showed the show wasn't going to pull any punches. The Ga-rei Zero world was a cruel and harsh place where the good guys lost too.

[King Lycan]

I Loved The First episode how everyone died

[Revan21]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I always thought it gave the show an air of tragedy that wouldn't be there without it. You knew the Yomi was going to eventually turn evil and you see how cruel she could be so it draws a marked contrast from what you see of her after episode 2. All the happy moments were tainted with a sense of dread of what was to come.

Also the original cast for a lot of people were memorable and it showed the show wasn't going to pull any punches. The Ga-rei Zero world was a cruel and harsh place where the good guys lost too.

That's true.
Although after Yomi "turns evil" she's not the same person anymore - the Yomi we got to know basically died in the hospital, after that it's just an animated corpse (like Mei was)

The cruelty could have been exposed along the way I still don't see the point of starting the series with an entirely different cast. If the creators wanted to express that even the good guys can loose they should have given them more screen time (at least three eps). In just one episode there's no was you can really relate to or feel sorry for them, they just remained cannon-fodder

It certainly was original but sort of rushed too

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Revan21

That's true.
Although after Yomi "turns evil" she's not the same person anymore - the Yomi we got to know basically died in the hospital, after that it's just an animated corpse (like Mei was)

The cruelty could have been exposed along the way I still don't see the point of starting the series with an entirely different cast. If the creators wanted to express that even the good guys can loose they should have given them more screen time (at least three eps). In just one episode there's no was you can really relate to or feel sorry for them, they just remained cannon-fodder

It certainly was original but sort of rushed too

Some certainly took a liking to many of the first episode cast. I still hears cries of "Natsuki" ever now and again. Certainly they could have done it differently but I think the way they did it left an impact that wouldn't be there otherwise. I want to say it was original but I have seen a series with a similar opening episode. The problem was that series didn't execute it any near as well as this one. It's a hit or miss episode but it still accomplished what it wanted to do either way. Not everyone will like such a twist.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Some certainly took a liking to many of the first episode cast. I still hears cries of "Natsuki" ever now and again. Certainly they could have done it differently but I think the way they did it left an impact that wouldn't be there otherwise. I want to say it was original but I have seen a series with a similar opening episode. The problem was that series didn't execute it any near as well as this one. It's a hit or miss episode but it still accomplished what it wanted to do either way. Not everyone will like such a twist.

Exactly my point!

[Yu Ominae]

I did Chapter 6 for my story, "Files of the 4th Division." Basically an AU on the 4th Division of the Paranormal Disaster Countermeasure Headquarters

Story

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by tjalorak

This series is so depressing! I'm stuck on ep. 8 at the half way mark and can't make myself go further. ;_;

Maybe I need to watch something happy or mindless first before I can move on.

The best choice for a happy and mindless show is Saki, but you're already watching that (hint: the seiyuu for Kagura plays Touka) . So you should go to the next best choice which is probably Taishou Yakyuu Musume - it's a new anime that uses very old-fashioned fun elements, and pulls it off pretty well.

For Ga-rei Zero itself, try and plow through it - it's surprisingly good, and the payoffs are well worth the depressing parts.

[tjalorak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The best choice for a happy and mindless show is Saki, but you're already watching that (hint: the seiyuu for Kagura plays Touka) . So you should go to the next best choice which is probably Taishou Yakyuu Musume - it's a new anime that uses very old-fashioned fun elements, and pulls it off pretty well.

For Ga-rei Zero itself, try and plow through it - it's surprisingly good, and the payoffs are well worth the depressing parts.

I hadn't known that re: Kagura and Touka, but now that you mention it, I can hear the similarity. Definitely gives an ... odd ... slant on Kagura during the show though ("We'll see who the TRUE (swordsmanship) IDOL is!!").

Ep. 9. Really nice to see Kagura and Yomi relationship ... of course, then it all goes downhill when the annoying Nagi look alike appears.

Edit: This theme song is addictive though.

[tjalorak]

Ep. 10. Yomi vs. Mei's dad has a striking similarity to Mei vs. Yomi's dad. Of course, Mei's dad is considerably worse so he just gets offed like an idiot.

Kagura eating the pocky and thinking about Yomi. Hrm. This scene from ep. 2 suddenly has more importance. BTW, the way she was chewing on it... reminded me of Canaan and her sugar stick addiction, complete with dominant chews. Very distinct bites.

Also, ep. 2's fight scene definitely makes more sense to me now. No wonder she wasn't ready to fight Yomi. It's barely been a couple hours since last she was hugging her onee-san and now Yomi's a big bad. Must really screw with your head and world view, esp. if one's like, what? 12? 13? At that age, kids are all about authority figures and accepting what they say, esp. if it's a trusted authority figure like Noriyuki or Yomi. Mixed in with the fact that at that age, kids are ridiculously self-conscious and haven't quite figured out that the world does not revolve around them so they believe everything is related to one of their actions... Yeah, okay, even her "this is my fault" shtick starts to make sense.

Hrm. That is to say, I like Kagura for the most part but I didn't quite understand her character in ep. 2.

Yomi sounds a bit demented when she's saying that hello. Well, apparently, being possessed by death stones doesn't do wonders for your sanity.

Jeez. I'm surprised Kagura even did that well against Yomi since it seems like she's in shock the entire time.

Ouch. Nori-chan doesn't even fight. Poor Kazuki. No wonder Yomi has to focus on Kagura to find someone who can actually fight her and have a chance of beating her.

Well, points to Kagura for actually trying to end it although she did try to find a way where she wouldn't have to cut down Yomi herself.

[I am so far beyond depressed into morbid acceptance now.]

This series is making a habit of inappropriate fan service at potential death scenes. It was weird at first but now it's just funny. Speaking of that, I wonder if part of that "free you from pain" thing from Yomi was her offering to give part of the death stone to Kagura. Also, I wonder if Yomi and her whole cutting up the school uniform to random talking, etc., was delaying tactics from something inside that doesn't want to kill Kagura.

[tjalorak]

Ep. 11. Kagura's dad needs to take lessons from Rider on chain fighting.

Why doesn't Rangurren just go for the body of the white dragon instead of the head?

There's feedback from the dragon on damage? That sucks! Rangurren doesn't have that problem.

Whoa. Wires from the secretary.

Rangurren even acts without being told to protect his wielder. I wonder if ga-rei can form bonds to certain wielders? I mean, for sure, it didn't do anything like this for Mei.

I didn't notice before but Secretary has really weird eyes. It just doesn't seem to match with her face and hair.

So those floating woman in the tanks observe spiritual flows. Minority Report flashback. That's sort of creepy actually.

Ick. Izuna's mind completely broke.

Of course the father has to die. It's a trope! The mentor has to die before the student can grow up and stand on her own. It's ... Roger and his Bronze Battalion captain all over again! This strongest ga-rei seems to have a lot of drawbacks.

Wheelchair-fu. Wow.

Another pro for Rangurren. He can act independently and he's mobile. And he can attack from both ends. ... Medusa butt ftw? He can also teleport back to his wielder. This is a lot of pros.

Yomi is the terminator. She never dies!

[tjalorak]

Ep. 12. Is that Tohru commanding the ground forces? He looks familiar but I don't know who he is.

That cell phone sliding open conveniently when Yomi falls forward. That wasn't a deus ex machina. At all.

Nagi look alike is playing with words. I think the death stone does respond to desires but deliberately seeks out and amplifies negative desires. Most people are ambivalent about things or feel the more positive emotional overall. There are very few people who deliberately go out and focus on their negative emotions.

Kagura is tiny, esp. next to drill wielder and Nabuu.

A sword with a cartridge system! Now, it just needs to be able to detach in pieces like Signum's sword...

Yomi's conversational gambit: Failed. I think Kagura's the only one in this anime who would answer like that.

Having to put your sword down before you can call your strongest ga rei: asinine. Who thought up this method?

Yomi channeling her inner Buffy. There's something wrong about the undead girl using the stake though...

Inappropriate fan service strikes again.

Second fight: ;_; *hunts for a tissue*

2 years later: Do not like. Also, Nori-chan's laugh is freaking me out. That's not sexy at all. New Kagura's voice is also weird. Long haired look is okay though.

[careph]

The first episode nearly made me drop the show. Neither did I need a second Gendo Ikari nor another Hei. The CG beasts also gave their best to reinforce my negative impression.
That is, until she emerged from the shadows. It was carnage at first sight

Originally Posted by Revan21

That's true.
Although after Yomi "turns evil" she's not the same person anymore - the Yomi we got to know basically died in the hospital, after that it's just an animated corpse (like Mei was)

Please allow me to disagree.

Spoiler for ”Rant filled to the brim with observations, speculations and cynical remarks”:

Then why didn't that animated corpse exterminate its natural enemies when it had the chance to?
Why did it beg to be killed by one of its natural enemies, only to spare his life and the lives of others shortly after?
Why did it kill with tears in its eyes?
Why didn't it annihilate the entire department when it was pretty much invincible due to the fact that its high-ranking members had an emotional connection to its hull, and just bathe in the blood of an entire city after a job well done?
Why did it try to kill itself in a back alley?
And why did it, after it failed to do so, choose to transfer to a remote, uninhabited location, only to patiently await its elimination?
Why did it tend to a superficial thigh wound inflicted by a wheel blade when it easily regenerated an entire amputated arm within seconds in a different host?
Why did it altruistically wish for the well being of a measly human, even at the cost of its own life?
Why did it use its last breath to tell her killer that it was proud of calling her its little sister?

These questions are rhetorical in nature.
The stone-possessed Yomi was human all the way, and the most human when she was the most cruel. Her aggressive attributes and characteristics were directly transferred to her enthralled body when she unwillingly assumed the role of antagonist.
Her behaviour was typical of the original individual, not of an abstract demon entity.
I'm also pretty confident when I say the result wasn't entirely unintended by our favourite butterfly boy.

Kazuhiro is a scientist in mind and deed.
First he implanted the stone into Aoi (who shares her name, looks and fate with a heroine from another very similarly themed yet little known AIC spirits anime by the way), presumably after her soul left her body. The reanimated corpse moved slowly and showed no signs of discernible intelligence or benign/malign intent and apparently had no valuable combat abilities.
On the whole it was quite a failure, so Kazuhiro took a different approach the next time, using the stone on a living, intelligent human with malign intent, or “beautiful ulterior motives” as he remarked. This method yielded a considerably better result and gave him an idea of what would be an ideal target for his plans. Incidentally, an adequate container was quickly found, one with even more pent-up negativity.
Unlike its predecessors the new target was not to be subdued using brute violence but instead by means of physical and mental torture and brainwashing. Initially this effort appeared to pay off, but in the long run the victim's raison d'être conflicted with Kazuhiro's goals and made it another failed attempt, at least at first.
To sum it up, he changed his methods in accordance with his goals. His creations evolved from nigh-useless zombies to very powerful high-ranking intelligent individuals.

What Kagura hunted down wasn't some random zombie who happened to look like her friend/sister/mother surrogate or a familiar corpse with a crab on their head, it was the very same person that accompanied and guided her over the course of several years.
Yomi wanted Kagura to lead a different life, not one of predetermined demise but one of individual choice and human responsibility. However, she was a bad teacher and the old saying “corruption of the best is the worst” holds true in this case as well. Yomi never managed to truly open up to Kagura and thus projected a bizarre one-sided saintly image of herself into her little sister's mind.
That halo eventually slid down to her throat to choke her when Kagura in her delusion innocently but nonetheless cruelly betrayed her by depersonalisation after the morally questionable Mei incident.
From then on, it's a struggle with inverted tendencies.
While Yomi tried her best to remain human despite her evil affliction, Kagura bit by bit abandoned her humanity in order to fulfil her self-chosen role, culminating in the ultimate proof of loyalty through which she made herself an unquestioning tool of a ruthless, unforgiving organisation.
While Yomi killed out of sheer desperation and in a state of clouded or even non-existent consciousness, Kagura committed premeditated cold-blooded murder.
I heavily doubt either girl's actions could possibly be labelled good or evil and painting white/black seems rather inappropriate to me when this anime, intentionally or not, provides such a perfect grey canvas of collective human failure.
Ga-Rei Zero's implied philosophies and themes (especially its grotesque subtitle and the apotheotic epilogue) don't do it justice, moreover, I think they detract from its initial charm. What could have been a subtle masterpiece mocking traditional shounen values deteriorated into its own lachrymatory parody.

Thanks for reading

Spoiler for ”three more motivationals”:

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Nagi look alike is playing with words. I think the death stone does respond to desires but deliberately seeks out and amplifies negative desires. Most people are ambivalent about things or feel the more positive emotional overall. There are very few people who deliberately go out and focus on their negative emotions.

I think that it's even more insidious than that. Instead of amplifying negative desires, I think that it removes the inhibitions one would normally have against enacting them. That way, while the stones play their part, it really is playing into what the person affected would have wanted to do. That would help explain why Yomi was able to keep from hurting Kagura physically - even at her deepest and darkest, she never wanted to protect her. I'd imagine that the death stones also heighten the affected person's sense of self-preservation as well, or else Yomi would have killed herself.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Yomi channeling her inner Buffy. There's something wrong about the undead girl using the stake though...

At this point, Yomi is still quite alive; just under the influence of the death stone.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

2 years later: Do not like. Also, Nori-chan's laugh is freaking me out. That's not sexy at all. New Kagura's voice is also weird. Long haired look is okay though.

I don't read manga as a rule, but I think that this is what people are talking about in that the manga isn't all that exciting compared to the anime (and why some won't mind it if Ga-rei isn't animated).

[tjalorak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that it's even more insidious than that. Instead of amplifying negative desires, I think that it removes the inhibitions one would normally have against enacting them. That way, while the stones play their part, it really is playing into what the person affected would have wanted to do. That would help explain why Yomi was able to keep from hurting Kagura physically - even at her deepest and darkest, she never wanted to protect her. I'd imagine that the death stones also heighten the affected person's sense of self-preservation as well, or else Yomi would have killed herself.

Hrm... That would make sense. If so, these inhibitions would probably include competing and contrary impulses -- probably the weaker positive ones -- and as corruption continues, it gets stronger and starts to remove stronger positive impulses.

Yomi has been able to hurt Kagura physically though. But true, she didn't go for killing or maiming blows.

Not just heighten their sense of preservation. It literally prevented Yomi from stabbing herself when she's in the alley way after slicing up Kagura's father. Every time she tried to stab herself, there was a red barrier that prevented her from going further.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

At this point, Yomi is still quite alive; just under the influence of the death stone.

Ah. Right.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't read manga as a rule, but I think that this is what people are talking about in that the manga isn't all that exciting compared to the anime (and why some won't mind it if Ga-rei isn't animated).

Possibly. I could have done without the "two years later" scene although it was nice to get some closure on some of the side characters. I get why the animators did it but eh. I'd have liked to see her eating a pocky stick while facing off against a monster to tie it back to what Ga Rei Zero revolved around and show that she moved on but she hasn't forgotten.

[careph]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that it's even more insidious than that. Instead of amplifying negative desires, I think that it removes the inhibitions one would normally have against enacting them.

You're definitely on the right track but I don't think that her "normal" hatred would have been sufficient to kill Kazuki and Kagura's father, even with all constraints gone. They both had "negative" influences on persons she loved, but not to the same degree as Mei, who actually killed a cherished one. I'd rather suggest a synergistic effect of amplified hatred plus defective inhibitions, guiding the container in the desired direction. Alternatively the amplification could have been at times strong enough to simply nullify all but the strongest inhibitions and positive impulses (I think I have never been that unnecessarily cryptic about something simple like love before )

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Yomi has been able to hurt Kagura physically though. But true, she didn't go for killing or maiming blows.

I'm not all too sure Yomi intentionally let Kagura live. Ever since the pocky kissing scene we know she was a person with a sadistic knack, so it could just as well have been a cruel cat and mouse game in her darker moments.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Not just heighten their sense of preservation. It literally prevented Yomi from stabbing herself when she's in the alley way after slicing up Kagura's father. Every time she tried to stab herself, there was a red barrier that prevented her from going further.

Yup, additionally we can also deduce that the stone didn't possess any significant intelligence of its own, else it would've been able to realise and thwart Yomi's “indirect suicide” approach.

But in the end it's purely speculation

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Yomi has been able to hurt Kagura physically though. But true, she didn't go for killing or maiming blows.

Precisely.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Not just heighten their sense of preservation. It literally prevented Yomi from stabbing herself when she's in the alley way after slicing up Kagura's father. Every time she tried to stab herself, there was a red barrier that prevented her from going further.

Hah! I haven't watched that scene for over a year, so I plain forgot about it.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Possibly. I could have done without the "two years later" scene although it was nice to get some closure on some of the side characters. I get why the animators did it but eh. I'd have liked to see her eating a pocky stick while facing off against a monster to tie it back to what Ga Rei Zero revolved around and show that she moved on but she hasn't forgotten.

Such a scene like that would be great, but I think that it'd go against her character established in the manga (it's her partner that carries a katana).

Originally Posted by careph

You're definitely on the right track but I don't think that her "normal" hatred would have been sufficient to kill Kazuki and Kagura's father, even with all constraints gone.

Have you ever felt anger or irritation towards someone who did things like cut you off in traffic? Normally we'd never act on those emotions because of societal norms, fear of punishment, and/or because we're not sadists. However, if you remove all of those barriers, it becomes a lot more possible to do so. The reason why I'm so adamant on this point is because it speaks to one of the central themes of Ga-rei Zero. Yomi isn't, and cannot be, just a victim in this affair. Instead, the evil that she propagates is strongly derived from her own dark impulses. And thus she had to also be an active participant in breaking free of the death stone's influence. To further underscore this point, we already saw what happened when Mei failed at this.

Originally Posted by careph

I'm not all too sure Yomi intentionally let Kagura live. Ever since the pocky kissing scene we know she was a person with a sadistic knack, so it could just as well have been a cruel cat and mouse game in her darker moments.

That doesn't make any sense given how closely they matched up. By not taking advantage of her opportunities, Yomi would have risked getting defeated, and that would run counter to the self-preservation directive.

Originally Posted by careph

Yup, additionally we can also deduce that the stone didn't possess any significant intelligence of its own, else it would've been able to realise and thwart Yomi's “indirect suicide” approach.

It shouldn't be a matter of the stone's "intelligence"; everything it does thought-wise should be dependent on the affected person's own consciousness. What Yomi did to thwart this was to overcome the death stone's influence, and her own dark impulses. That's what raises the story from a tragedy to a minor triumph.