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Ithekro · 2009-07-31, 22:31

Unless of course she is the disease. But then would not the question be "what am I" rather than "who am I?"

But then humans can personify a lot of things.

k//eternal · 2009-07-31, 22:32

If Battler has a genetic disease, he's not making it off the island, no matter what. That would make for a pretty unfortunate ending.

I'm still convinced that if Beato isn't poison or a landslide (the latter of which may also be triggered by a time bomb set to 12 AM of the second night), she's Battler, and kills him Fight Club-style.

Jan-Poo · 2009-07-31, 22:43

it is quite mindfucking because, if it is fightclub style and if she can say "I'm not you". Then how can she say that he's the only person alive on the island? Isn't she alive as well? The definition of life isn't quite simple...

Ithekro · 2009-07-31, 22:44

Is there an off chance "Beatrice" wrote the letter from Maria in the first arc? Just using Maria's name because there was no other name to use.

Alair · 2009-07-31, 22:49

That's confirmed here. The bottle journals were not in Maria's handwriting but they were written by the same "other" person who was writing in Maria's grimoire.

gtr06 · 2009-07-31, 22:59

Sounds more like a Hinamizawa syndrome that occurs only when he is at the island. What is Battler forgetting that is upsetting Beatrice, maybe he conveniently forgotten it.

Something made 6 years ago... All I can think of is that Battler was part of Mariage Sociere and forgot. Possibly the handwriting in Maria's book might be Battler (somehow convincing Maria he was a witch when she was 3), and it would make sense for the bottled letters since he is almost always the last survivor.

I find that 3 people recieving 100 million yen in the mail as more suspicious. Maybe they made a deal with Krauss or Kinzo to gurantee that upon their death their family will live as rich as they ever good. This would put Kumasawa, Nanjo and Battler's dad on the same boat. Could he have ever imagined Battler would have come to the island when he made the deal? Possibly not or possibly so, since only Ange got the letter. So he wanted to make sure Battler and Ange would inherit a lot of money in case something happen during this secret alliance. Since if Rudolf did die, he'd actually still be in debt and everything would be seized. Except for something they couldn't find. Namely a letter directed to their children.

The greater the risk, the greater the miracle.

Alair · 2009-07-31, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtr06

Something made 6 years ago... All I can think of is that Battler was part of Mariage Sociere and forgot. Possibly the handwriting in Maria's book might be Battler (somehow convincing Maria he was a witch when she was 3), and it would make sense for the bottled letters since he is almost always the last survivor.

Wasn't Maria 3 the last time she and Battler met? I don't think she'd have joined too many secret societies at that age.

And why would Batler be signing his letters with Maria's name?

SealedTime · 2009-07-31, 23:12

Nah, that would be weird...

Ithekro · 2009-07-31, 23:15

Like it isn't weird already?

luckyssol · 2009-07-31, 23:41

Regarding the final challenge, I'm concerned about how some lines were translated. (However, I've only studied Japanese for a year)

右代宮戦人。今から私が、あなたを殺します。
The Witch Hunt translates this as:
Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you.
Is this another possible translation?
Ushiromiya Battler. From now on, I will kill you.

なのに私は今、ここにいて、これからあなたを殺します。
The Witch Hunt translation:
Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.
Again, another possible translation?
Yet I am here, now, and from this moment on I will kill you.

I'm probably not correct in how I'm translating these lines but could someone who knows Japanese confirm that my alternate translations are definitely incorrect?

Jimprovement · 2009-08-01, 01:34

I just thought of something...

Did they ever explicitly describe the ring that was found on Shannon's finger in the shed in Ep. 1? I was thinking that the ring on her finger may not have been the one George gave to her, but Kinzo's ring instead.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-08-01, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimprovement

I just thought of something...

Did they ever explicitly describe the ring that was found on Shannon's finger in the shed in Ep. 1? I was thinking that the ring on her finger may not have been the one George gave to her, but Kinzo's ring instead.

Not very likely because the adults would have recognized it as Kinzo's ring and questioned why she had it.

Saerianne · 2009-08-01, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimprovement

I just thought of something...

Did they ever explicitly describe the ring that was found on Shannon's finger in the shed in Ep. 1? I was thinking that the ring on her finger may not have been the one George gave to her, but Kinzo's ring instead.

I'm pretty sure they said it was the one George had given to her the night before.

Just a quick thing that I wanted to ask, if 'Beatrice' considers the Ushiromiya family to be interest, how come Ange was never killed? I know she wasn't on the island, but she's part of the family and never gets 'taken'.
I don't know, maybe my heads not working. There's probably a easy explanation for it.

rogerpepitone · 2009-08-01, 05:21

How could they know it was the same ring? Only George and Shannon saw that ring.

**Klashikari** · 2009-08-01, 05:29

Hideyoshi said the ring had a diamond.
Kinzo's ring is different: a golden ring with the crest of the ushiromiya carved in it.

The simple fact there is a diamond on Shannon's ring makes it unlikely to be Kinzo's.

ghost_zero5 · 2009-08-01, 06:36

@Saerianne:
Actually, Beatrice is more or less just "following" the Epitah's ressuraction ceremony.
It doesn't mean that she is really considering the family as interest. The was just what the family interpreted. She never said so.
AND even IF: If I am not mistaken: She can't act outside the island as long as Battler denies her existence.

Furthermore, we don't know if Ange survived all four times. After all, only one Ange appeared and that was the one from Ep3 where Eva was able to solve the riddle and therefore stop the collection of the interest. Actually, the question is: She also said that she would return everything that was already collected but that didn't happen - if we consider the "family" interest.

Jan-Poo · 2009-08-01, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghost_zero5

@Saerianne:
Actually, Beatrice is more or less just "following" the Epitah's ressuraction ceremony.
It doesn't mean that she is really considering the family as interest. The was just what the family interpreted. She never said so.
AND even IF: If I am not mistaken: She can't act outside the island as long as Battler denies her existence.

Furthermore, we don't know if Ange survived all four times. After all, only one Ange appeared and that was the one from Ep3 where Eva was able to solve the riddle and therefore stop the collection of the interest. Actually, the question is: She also said that she would return everything that was already collected but that didn't happen - if we consider the "family" interest.

More than "following the epitaph" I think it is more like the culprit's only concern is trying to make things appear that way. As long as people believe the epitaph is being followed it is fine, but there are enough hints to make clear that it isn't done properly.

The Eva's case is another thing that would make you think that Beatrice is lying or deceiving. By finding the gold everyone should have been saved, according to Beatrice's letter, but that didn't happen.

hodil · 2009-08-01, 07:28

I think Battler's sin has something to do with Ushiromiya Rudolph.

Have anyone considered how Rudolph must have felt when Battler severed ties with him? I doubt many people would feel or noticed this. But i think it really does have a connection with the Rokkenjima mass murder. Especially the part when he says "I'm going to die tonight"

And i also think that Ushiromiya Rudolph has something to do with the Beatrice that died in the past. (I just dont know what, i cant seem to remember but i actually managed to piece a connection within my head yesterday)

Jan-Poo · 2009-08-01, 07:48

I don't think Rudolf has anything to do with it, because Beatrice said:

Quote:

That's not it. I have no interest in matters concerning your immediate family or your home. Where are we? Rokkenjima. The main residence of the Ushiromiya head family. ......Isn't there a sin you should remember, fitting for this place......?

gtr06 · 2009-08-01, 08:02

I wonder if Battler sleep kills

2009-07-31, 22:31	Link #2921
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Unless of course she is the disease. But then would not the question be "what am I" rather than "who am I?" But then humans can personify a lot of things. __________________

2009-07-31, 22:43	Link #2923
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	it is quite mindfucking because, if it is fightclub style and if she can say "I'm not you". Then how can she say that he's the only person alive on the island? Isn't she alive as well? The definition of life isn't quite simple... __________________

2009-07-31, 22:44	Link #2924
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Is there an off chance "Beatrice" wrote the letter from Maria in the first arc? Just using Maria's name because there was no other name to use. __________________

2009-07-31, 22:49	Link #2925
Alair Member Join Date: Mar 2008	That's confirmed here. The bottle journals were not in Maria's handwriting but they were written by the same "other" person who was writing in Maria's grimoire. Last edited by Alair; 2009-07-31 at 23:11.

2009-07-31, 23:15	Link #2929
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Like it isn't weird already? __________________

2009-07-31, 22:32	Link #2922
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	If Battler has a genetic disease, he's not making it off the island, no matter what. That would make for a pretty unfortunate ending. I'm still convinced that if Beato isn't poison or a landslide (the latter of which may also be triggered by a time bomb set to 12 AM of the second night), she's Battler, and kills him Fight Club-style.

2009-07-31, 22:59	Link #2926
gtr06 Golden Watch Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canada Age: 40	Sounds more like a Hinamizawa syndrome that occurs only when he is at the island. What is Battler forgetting that is upsetting Beatrice, maybe he conveniently forgotten it. Something made 6 years ago... All I can think of is that Battler was part of Mariage Sociere and forgot. Possibly the handwriting in Maria's book might be Battler (somehow convincing Maria he was a witch when she was 3), and it would make sense for the bottled letters since he is almost always the last survivor. I find that 3 people recieving 100 million yen in the mail as more suspicious. Maybe they made a deal with Krauss or Kinzo to gurantee that upon their death their family will live as rich as they ever good. This would put Kumasawa, Nanjo and Battler's dad on the same boat. Could he have ever imagined Battler would have come to the island when he made the deal? Possibly not or possibly so, since only Ange got the letter. So he wanted to make sure Battler and Ange would inherit a lot of money in case something happen during this secret alliance. Since if Rudolf did die, he'd actually still be in debt and everything would be seized. Except for something they couldn't find. Namely a letter directed to their children. The greater the risk, the greater the miracle.

2009-07-31, 23:12	Link #2928
SealedTime Bernkastel's Follower Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In Luci-nee's Arms	Nah, that would be weird...

2009-07-31, 23:41	Link #2930
luckyssol Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009	Regarding the final challenge, I'm concerned about how some lines were translated. (However, I've only studied Japanese for a year) 右代宮戦人。今から私が、あなたを殺します。 The Witch Hunt translates this as: Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you. Is this another possible translation? Ushiromiya Battler. From now on, I will kill you. なのに私は今、ここにいて、これからあなたを殺します。 The Witch Hunt translation: Yet I am here, now, and will kill you. Again, another possible translation? Yet I am here, now, and from this moment on I will kill you. I'm probably not correct in how I'm translating these lines but could someone who knows Japanese confirm that my alternate translations are definitely incorrect?

2009-08-01, 01:34	Link #2931
Jimprovement Televangelist Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA. Age: 33	I just thought of something... Did they ever explicitly describe the ring that was found on Shannon's finger in the shed in Ep. 1? I was thinking that the ring on her finger may not have been the one George gave to her, but Kinzo's ring instead.

2009-08-01, 05:21	Link #2934
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	How could they know it was the same ring? Only George and Shannon saw that ring.

2009-08-01, 05:29	Link #2935
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Hideyoshi said the ring had a diamond. Kinzo's ring is different: a golden ring with the crest of the ushiromiya carved in it. The simple fact there is a diamond on Shannon's ring makes it unlikely to be Kinzo's. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2009-08-01, 06:36	Link #2936
ghost_zero5 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	@Saerianne: Actually, Beatrice is more or less just "following" the Epitah's ressuraction ceremony. It doesn't mean that she is really considering the family as interest. The was just what the family interpreted. She never said so. AND even IF: If I am not mistaken: She can't act outside the island as long as Battler denies her existence. Furthermore, we don't know if Ange survived all four times. After all, only one Ange appeared and that was the one from Ep3 where Eva was able to solve the riddle and therefore stop the collection of the interest. Actually, the question is: She also said that she would return everything that was already collected but that didn't happen - if we consider the "family" interest.

2009-08-01, 07:28	Link #2938
hodil Solve me... Join Date: Mar 2009	I think Battler's sin has something to do with Ushiromiya Rudolph. Have anyone considered how Rudolph must have felt when Battler severed ties with him? I doubt many people would feel or noticed this. But i think it really does have a connection with the Rokkenjima mass murder. Especially the part when he says "I'm going to die tonight" And i also think that Ushiromiya Rudolph has something to do with the Beatrice that died in the past. (I just dont know what, i cant seem to remember but i actually managed to piece a connection within my head yesterday) __________________ "._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._." The blog of truths.

2009-08-01, 08:02	Link #2940
gtr06 Golden Watch Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canada Age: 40	I wonder if Battler sleep kills