Tenshi na konamaki ( A Cheeky Angel )

[KristopherZ]

Originally Posted by petr

It sounds retarded. And homo.

Close minded anime fans like you make me hate this hobby....

"If it doesn't have sex or violence I don't like it"

Geez, that explains why AAA quality series like Kare Kano and Fruits Basket get shoved by series like Love Hina or Battle Royale.

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by KristopherZ

Close minded anime fans like you make me hate this hobby....

"If it doesn't have sex or violence I don't like it"

Geez, that explains why AAA quality series like Kare Kano and Fruits Basket get shoved by series like Love Hina or Battle Royale.

i agree, great series like Fruits Basket always get overlooked for Yu Gi Oh, Dragonball Z, Naruto, and Love Hina (Rurouni Kenshin too, but that series really deserves its fame)

[petr]

Yes. Its very mature to get exited about series about guy becoming a hot gal who beats other guys. This series must be sooo mature. And it must have those realistic characters and relationships...I bet its even better then Chobits!!

Why do you suppose I like sex and violence manga? Oh wait!! Endo works has sex and violence. Oh man you got me here :/

And yes, I do like Ippo.

[stpehen]

Kyou Kara Ore Wa was a lot better, methinks. TnK just kind of dilutes Nishimori's style.

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by petr

And yes, I do like Ippo.

this explains sooooo much

[snoopy]

... What's wrong with Ippo...?

[petr]

Ippo probably killed his little pet doggie and now he hates it. Your avatar says so much about you, dude.

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by snoopy

... What's wrong with Ippo...?

it's not that Ippo itself is bad, it's just that, similar to naruto, it creates a lot of narrow-minded fanbois who whine and call stuff "homo" and "retarded"

oh, and i like my avatar, i though it was cute scene (and about 2 dozen other people that PM me on a daily basis asking what anime it's from think so too) people who see something "wrong" about it read way too much into things

[snoopy]

Hmm. Maybe, but the manga and the anime are different in that regard. Or at least the manga brings 50 thousand less fanboys than the anime does solely because they probably don't even know that 'tehre was a comic based on the anime'. However in Ippo's case, as opposed to Naruto, the anime has very few outright flaws (like pacing), so I have no problem with lots of people liking it.

*points out that this conversation should end or move somewhere other than the TnK thread*

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by snoopy

*points out that this conversation should end or move somewhere other than the TnK thread*

agreed
*glares at Petr*
i don't want to reply to what he'll post but i will if it's against me...

[KristopherZ]

Originally Posted by petr

Yes. Its very mature to get exited about series about guy becoming a hot gal who beats other guys. This series must be sooo mature. And it must have those realistic characters and relationships...I bet its even better then Chobits!!

Why do you suppose I like sex and violence manga? Oh wait!! Endo works has sex and violence. Oh man you got me here :/

And yes, I do like Ippo.

Uh huh, and I suppose that you read manga for the maturity involved in it. You are in the wrong hobby if you think that. My point is that people like the "me too" series that emulate previous series, and something like this (which isn't very common) is being overlooked just because you think the concept is "strange or wierd"

Also it shows your lack of maturity as a person because you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that this series is mature, it is anything but that. I am praising it because it is "fun" it is "different" and unconventional. Of course I bet more than anything you scoff at guys who read shojo manga just because most of the titles in shojo don't have extreme violence or sex. Also I really don't care for this creators previous work, I care about this series and none other. Unlike some people I am not loyal to authors or brand name comics, I am loyal to the work itself, I am loyal if it deserves my loyalty.

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by KristopherZ

Also I really don't care for this creators previous work, I care about this series and none other. Unlike some people I am not loyal to authors or brand name comics, I am loyal to the work itself, I am loyal if it deserves my loyalty.

i agree
though i'm ashamed to admit i check out anything done by Rumiko Takahashi or Ken Akamatsu because i've so consistantly enjoyed their work ^_^;

[KristopherZ]

Originally Posted by Kyuven

i agree
though i'm ashamed to admit i check out anything done by Rumiko Takahashi or Ken Akamatsu because i've so consistantly enjoyed their work ^_^;

Well, I will say that I did say that I am not loyal to the work of a manga artist, I do agree with you that once they have built a stong respect because of their work I would look at the next one. That still doesn't automatically make me buy the work just because it was done by the author. Only a couple of manga artists have my respect Yu Watase has amazed me with 3 pieces of her work (Imadoki, Ceres, and Fushigi Yugi), Of course I have 3 of Rumiko Takahashi's work (ranma, Inuyasha, Maison Ikkoku). Regardless of if they got my respect I still look at new volumes with a critical eye, I don't buy it "just 'cause they made it"

[snoopy]

I'm going to be blunt and tell you that your above statement adds 10 points to our stupidity rating, KristopherZ (the one directed at Petr). Manga caters to everyone. Period. If you like mature stories, then you'll find mature mangas. If you're a pedofile, you'll find child porn mangas. If you're a grade school boy, then you have Naruto. Thus the hobby is good for everyone and anyone that says otherwise is a retard. Also, everyone has favorite artists. There are multiple reasons why, but the major one is because artists tend to have multiple stories all with the same general story-telling style and/or genre. So if you like one, the odds are that you'll like the next one. Plus there are just some story-tellers that are better than others. And I buy Oh!Great mangas simply because he does them. Since I believe his art to be orgasmic.

That said, simply being original doesn't a good story make. And if originality floats your boat, then consider that Tenshi na Konamaiki is an original premise with lots and lots of repetitive and predictable plot lines. I mean, I didn't even realize it was over in the weeklies for like 2 months. I just kinda glossed over it then when someone asked me how many chapters there were currently I realized that I hadn't seen any of it in Shounen Sunday for months. While I can be a forgetful guy, if something underwhelms me that much, you won't be hearing many good things coming out of my mouth about it.

And a little boy living his life as a girl really IS homosexual. Think about it.

[KristopherZ]

Originally Posted by snoopy

I'm going to be blunt and tell you that your above statement adds 10 points to our stupidity rating, KristopherZ (the one directed at Petr). Manga caters to everyone. Period. If you like mature stories, then you'll find mature mangas. If you're a pedofile, you'll find child porn mangas. If you're a grade school boy, then you have Naruto. Thus the hobby is good for everyone and anyone that says otherwise is a retard. Also, everyone has favorite artists. There are multiple reasons why, but the major one is because artists tend to have multiple stories all with the same general story-telling style and/or genre. So if you like one, the odds are that you'll like the next one. Plus there are just some story-tellers that are better than others. And I buy Oh!Great mangas simply because he does them. Since I believe his art to be orgasmic.

I disagree manga is there for one purpose, to entertain. Entertainment has varying degrees of complexity but in the end it is what it is, entertainment. The hobby is not good for everyone, why do you think that 110 million dollar manga industry is not like Japan. It is because it doesn't appeal to everyone, it appeals to a certain amount of people. Granted with advertising and other things it can expand much more manga appeals to a set amount of people. No matter what people who like manga will like it, if they don't like manga now they will like it eventually. In the end it will not appeal to certain people, you want to know why? That is because manga doesn't appeal to everyone, not everyone sees it as a legitimate form of storytelling, not everyone sees it as a valid hobby.

With Maturity, that is also in the eye of the beholder. A 9 year old boy sees maturity as something that is extremely violent and has extremely violent content. I see maturity as something that cannot be explained in little words. Basically you are mature when you don't have to force people to think that you are mature. Manga does just that on many occasions. It uses melodrama, it uses foreshadowing to make it seem more mature than it really is. Don't believe me, check out most of the manga that is selling in the stores. They tend to do that quite often. A truely mature manga is something that doesn't have to force itself on people. That is few and far in between. Also like I mentioned just because you like content that is more violent or has more sex doesn't make one mature. Heck I think people are more mature that pick up comics like Shojo. That is because they don't need to go above and beyond just to prove that they are mature.

As for the last statement I do disagree that loyalty should be based off the artist. As you mentioned the artists veer off their genres and explore many times. So what makes you think that if the previous series is awesome that the next one wont be a stinker. Just because they released a high quality series before doesn't mean that they will be the next time around. A series is built around Concept, characterization, design, planning and many other aspects. If someone did it all perfectly in the previous one doesn't mean that they cannot falter the next time around.

That said, simply being original doesn't a good story make. And if originality floats your boat, then consider that Tenshi na Konamaiki is an original premise with lots and lots of repetitive and predictable plot lines. I mean, I didn't even realize it was over in the weeklies for like 2 months. I just kinda glossed over it then when someone asked me how many chapters there were currently I realized that I hadn't seen any of it in Shounen Sunday for months. While I can be a forgetful guy, if something underwhelms me that much, you won't be hearing many good things coming out of my mouth about it.

Of course, originality isn't good if there isn't any content to back it up. As far as I am concerned it has the substance to back up its originality. From what I can tell it has the potential to do so, will I eventually change my opinion depending on how the story is told and how it is developed, hell yes I will. I read stories per volume and as a whole. There can be a chance that a series can "drag on" or have "downtime" yet I prefer to look at the work as a whole. Right now my experience with the work is only 1 volume of manga. In retrospect it can easily be one of the worst series in my collection after I collect all 20 volumes. What I posted up above is only first impressions. You know, something that one would get reading a series for the first time. Not hearing any buzz from other people, posting my opinion on board.

Granted if you don't like my opinion there is no rule that says that you can't speak out about it. It is america and the purpose that this country was founded was because of the freedom of speech. Just because I don't like you opinion doesn't mean I can stop it. Also just because I don't like your opinion doesn't mean that I will be sitting in the sidelines waiting as a punching bag for all your personal insults. Even if it is a forum I know there is another person at the end of the computer, so I am entitled to rebuttle and argue all I want.

Granted yes this story is predictable. Hell under any circumstances any story is predictable. I can watch the "latest and greatest thing" and predict how the story will go. Will I be right? No I wont be right all the time, but story are structured very similarly and does it surprize you that some do it better than others? It should not. It is all about execution. The story can be boring and contrived but if executed well enough it should be able to please everyone. I only read the first volume of the series, so how would I know if later on the story gets boring and repetitive. You have that advantage over me. Yet, that advantage can be taken away because opinion is in the eye of the beholder. A story that I may consider to be one of the best stories of all time you may consider crap or vice versa.

And a little boy living his life as a girl really IS homosexual. Think about it.

That is a good point. Think about it though. Let's say that you somehow transform into a girl, a 100% pure girl from a boy. Consider the fact that more than likely as you live a life as a girl you eventually conform into socieity's belief on how a girl should be and act. Would that act alone make you homosexual because you are betraying the male instincts you just had before the transformation. Also because since you are born a male and know how the male brain works, yet you still transform into a more "feminine" person, does that make you homosexual. Last but not least, since you are born and raised as a boy then transform into girls would your instincts to chase after girls still be evident after transformation and of course the life you live afterwards. So basically in the end transforming into a girl makes you homosexual no matter what. If you conform to the female body you become homosexual because you where not born a woman, yet if you do not conform you are also homosexual because you chase after other girls in a female form. As you can expect there is not a clear cut answer.

[Kyuven]

it's like them kids born with both "parts" that are raised a certain way and then decide to be raised a different way...or something
it's entertaining, that's all

Spoiler:

Plus i hear there's...well..."something" that changes...

[snoopy]

I don't like reading long posts... so I really hope all of those paragraphs had topic sentences. If they didn't please forgive me for skipping things that I would normally have mentioned.

Maturity has a meaning. Mature series are actually set aside as mature in their genre. Seinen is more mature than shonen. If you like seinen manga over shonen manga, then you prefer mature stories. Really is that simple. I said that it was foolish to say that if you like mature then you have the wrong hobby. Which is exactly what you said.

*just caught the end of that paragaph* Manga would appeal to anyone willing to give it a chance. It has stories for everyone, and while those that refuse to read it for whatever reason may never know its greatness, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't like it if they tried it (assuming they tried something that met their personal tastes). I'll say it again, just to push my point further: Manga literally has stories for every single person that can read. I can think of no personality type or subject matter that has not been made into an enjoyable manga.

And what I said was that most artists do not veer off the path they gained success in. If you're good at something, there's no reason to stop. If you have a positive quality in your art or your stories it's common sense to capitalize on it. For example, some mangakas have an incredible sense of humor. That would play into every one of their works, and if you liked the jokes in one series it's virtually a given that you'll like them in another series simply because they're thought up from the same mind, just like people with their favorite comedians. That said, there are one hit wonders, just look at Kenshin... however, when a mangaka has provided 2 or 3 wonderful series, it's a safe bet that the next will be good, or if nothing else, that any bad ones are the flukes.

The series premise is a little boy turning into a really really hot lesbian, then forced by society and 'his' own strange pubecent tendencies to date guys. That really is a situation rank with sexual confusion if nothing else. And since I know how it ends, I hate it even more.

Regardless, you're entitled to your own opinion. I say it starts out original and quickly moves into... er... you could liken it to a planet with a hot molten core of unoriginality surrounded by layers of predictable plot and then a thin crust of really weird characters. And then there's the ending which I thought was god awful. And I really don't like the art, but I'm willing to ignore that for a good story... as I do for Rumiko Takahashi.

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by snoopy

And I really don't like the art, but I'm willing to ignore that for a good story... as I do for Rumiko Takahashi.

i'm glad you brought this up
TnK's art is...well...not good. While i disagree with snoopy regarding the way the story is told (ok i'll admit it: unless it's so hideously bad you have get hypnotic therapy to repress the memories, or features shounen-ai as the main theme (i.e. Gravitation) i'd probably like it. I dunno why the hell i like gender-bender type series like Ranma, TnK, etc...) i do agree...the art leaves much to be desired. The only character who had a remotely good design was...i forgot his name...the street-punk guy, Genzo i think his name was.
all the other ones had certain...unappealing aspect. the manga-ka obviously tried to portray the characters as asian, but unlike Tohru Fujisawa (who, regardless what others may think, draws characters that actually LOOK asian), they failed. All the characters have this weird line between their noses and their mouth...a horizontal line...it bugs me. Also their eyes are reminiscant of old school shoujo mixed with old school shounen.

[Token-Blackguy]

Originally Posted by Kyuven

Tohru Fujisawa (who, regardless what others may think, draws characters that actually LOOK asian), .

Come again? Not to veer off topic, and not to flame either, when did this happen. I always thought that he was just another manga-ka who drew his charactes too look a lot less japanese than they really are? Can you explain your reasoning?

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by Token-Blackguy

Come again? Not to veer off topic, and not to flame either, when did this happen. I always thought that he was just another manga-ka who drew his charactes too look a lot less japanese than they really are? Can you explain your reasoning?

easily
their eyes are not overly large for one thing (they're as big as they need to be)
the weirded out faces onizuka and uchiyamada make could only be pulled off by someone of asian decent (i, a caucasian, could NEVER come close to those expressions)
plus every character has black or brown hair, and if they don't, it's dyed (Onizuka, Miyabi, Mayu, etc. Urumi's half gaijin anyway if you didn't guess) and characters with dyed hair still have black or brown eyebrows, and only Urumi has eyes that aren't brown (or black, but it's really just dark brown) and again, she's part foreigner (and a genetic freak...bicolor eyes)
there are other anime/manga that portray the characters like this (SaiKano to an extent, Jin Roh, Akira to an extent even if they are more than a little cartoonish in some places, etc.)

btw...who merged this thread with one that had massive spoilers in it..?